Viper vs Hornet Radar

F-16 maintain a stronger lock on a BVR target. That is why I prefer the Viper radar. ACM they are pretty much the same.

So a little update on this issue. First off, before yesterday, I flew MP 100% of the time. Yesterday I decided to try out the Liberation Dynamic Campaign in single player (really good btw). Well guess what? I was able to pick up enemy targets on the radar out to 80 miles with no issues. I was also able to use TWS, although I still had the issue where as I TMS right is goes all the way to locking a single target, but further TMS rights did not change targets. Only maintained lock on the first. Curiously, I then jumped into an Inferno campaign in MP and went to test the radar. And again, I could NOT pick up enemy contacts (friendlies I could see out to 160 no problem), inside of 40nm. So it looks like this is an issue with MP and only with enemy contacts. Not sure if ED has secretly adjusted the radar for MP but that is what it feels like. Anyways that's my 2 cents.

It would be great if someone else could test this and shared their findings.

Ive had no issues using TWS inside 40nm in MP. I was just using it last weekend extensively on GS, and it works fine as it always has for me.

dundun92 can you please provide a track or video showing you employ multiple aim-120s in TWS mode in MP? Not calling you a liar mind you. I just want to see it working, and more importantly see how you are manipulating the radar controls to get this work? I cannot discount the fact that maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Thanks

DataJack,

One of the issues you are having with TWS, where the TMS right doesn't cycle between contacts, but just stays on one contact, happens when you hit TMS right with only one complete system file built. In that case, just go TMS aft once, let the radar sweep a few more times to build all the files, and go TMS right again. It doesn't seem to be able to add new built files to the sequence once you've hit TMS right -- it just ignores the upgraded tracks after you've pressed that button.

As far as the ability to lock a contact at range -- it all depends on look up vs look down, and the aspect of the contact. I suspect human pilots in multiplayer are a lot more erratic (and thus changing aspect) than AI who bowling-ball towards you. If it helps to add another data-point, I fly against a lot of AI in multiplayer (PvE), and I'm able to lock flankers in a 10k look down scenario (I'm at 40k, they are at 30k) around 50nm, and shoot by 40nm -- doing this in both RWR and TWS.

Cheers,

Dances

whats basically same range? V5 sees target 35-40NM and a Hornet sees one at 45-50NM? or would you imply even less?

That's what I'd call a noticable difference

He said within group criteria, which could be anywhere between 2 to 10nm. I find the comment regarding the display/ergonomy allowing you to make choices earlier very intersting, and I suspect that DCS might not quite reflect that.

He said within group criteria, which could be anywhere between 2 to 10nm. I find the comment regarding the display/ergonomy allowing you to make choices earlier very intersting, and I suspect that DCS might not quite reflect that.

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Ive had no issues using TWS inside 40nm in MP. I was just using it last weekend extensively on GS, and it works fine as it always has for me.

Yup, I was flying there that same weekend and can absolutely confirm that. I think we had decent success with the Viper. Within 40 nm the radar is totally usable in BVR/TWS when handled the correct way. Only thing that really annoys me is when auto-scaling kicks in at 40 or 20 nm in RWS SAM mode I tend to lose lock because it seems that the radar elevation setting is automatically changed in a rather erratic way and is then way off to where the target actually is in space. I observed these automatic elevation setting changes sometimes being off by +/- 20000ft so this has to be a bug and will hopefully be fixed in the near future.

Another thing is that the current APG-68v5 iteration tends to loose lock a little bit too quick when it shouldn't.

dundun92 can you please provide a track or video showing you employ multiple aim-120s in TWS mode in MP? Not calling you a liar mind you. I just want to see it working, and more importantly see how you are manipulating the radar controls to get this work? I cannot discount the fact that maybe I'm doing something wrong.

 

Thanks

Just a fyi I really dont engage multiple targets much at all, and if thats the issue then yes Ive found it a bit finicky as well. But as for its overall performance, (acquisition, holding lock, etc) its fine, thats what I was meaning.

Only thing that really annoys me is when auto-scaling kicks in at 40 or 20 nm in RWS SAM mode I tend to lose lock because it seems that the radar elevation setting is automatically changed in a rather erratic way and is then way off to where the target actually is in space. I observed these automatic elevation setting changes sometimes being off by +/- 20000ft so this has to be a bug and will hopefully be fixed in the near future.

Yea, SAM has serious scan centering problems, which is why I dont even use it anymore lol. It drops the lock way too much

Ah so then you have the same issue I have. The whole point of TWS is to engage multiple targets quickly. Something I haven't been able to do. Like I said before, I can get to the point where I can lock a target. It will hold the lock and I can engage with a missile. But pressing TMS right after the first target is locked does nothing.

Ah so then you have the same issue I have. The whole point of TWS is to engage multiple targets quickly. Something I haven't been able to do. Like I said before, I can get to the point where I can lock a target. It will hold the lock and I can engage with a missile. But pressing TMS right after the first target is locked does nothing.

Currently you need for the radar to track more targets and then you press TMS Right and you'll cicle through the ones you had in your 'lists of targets' when you pressed right.

Even if new targets are available and radar says they are added into the 'lists' for TMS right, they aren't.

You have to go TMS Down 2 times for the 'list' to empty itself, and them wait untill it fills up again once more

Ah so then you have the same issue I have. The whole point of TWS is to engage multiple targets quickly. Something I haven't been able to do. Like I said before, I can get to the point where I can lock a target. It will hold the lock and I can engage with a missile. But pressing TMS right after the first target is locked does nothing.

It's doable if you can keep enough system tracks going at once. What I find difficult is that any tracks outside the TWS scan zone very very quickly expire and even if they get reacquired don't resume the system track targetable status.

The Link 16 symbols really hide the tank or system-ness of a track which is critical info for missile shooting. I did a head on at 35,000' 50nm against a 1x1nm offset box formation of B-52s and a grand slam engagement was quite easy. Turning off MIDS helps see what's going on under the hood.

That's an ideal scenario though. If you have stray tracks for off azimuth from your target group then when you step to it a good chance when you step to the stray your other tracks will perish and you can't step to them. Narrowing your FOR by small az and bar helps let the unimportant tracks expire before engagement.. When it comes time to designate for shooting I recommend a TMS aft to drop all systems and manually designate systems again just the target you want to shoot or if the radar is only showing intended targets a TMS right to auto elevate. With MIDS on you won't be able to see what you're doing but it will be occurring "behind the curtain."

Really I envision that two-target SAM is going to be the go-to multi AIM-120 engagement outside of non-threatening bombers in close but not too close groups. With some better fade times and symbology it might get more usable. I forget how long tracks are supposed to last past last successful scan, 6 seconds? 8? 13? It seems super short in DCS.

It's system defined and you might be able to get as long as 30 sec ... not sure if it applies to this radar set though.

It may also be based on frames ... again, not sure.

Deliverator yes I am aware of this. Its funny when someone posts that something is not working the first assumption is that they are doing something wrong lol. I know how to work the radar. I can TMS down all the way and then TMS right again. This is NOT this issue I am reporting. The issue I'm reporting is that once I TMS right enough times to lock the first target, subsequent TMS rights does NOT cycle locks. It works sometimes and others it doesn't. And again, I've been playing in single player lately and everything seems to work well for the most part. Its against enemy aircraft in MP that I'm experiencing these issues.

Deliverator yes I am aware of this. Its funny when someone posts that something is not working the first assumption is that they are doing something wrong lol. I know how to work the radar. I can TMS down all the way and then TMS right again. This is NOT this issue I am reporting. The issue I'm reporting is that once I TMS right enough times to lock the first target, subsequent TMS rights does NOT cycle locks. It works sometimes and others it doesn't. And again, I've been playing in single player lately and everything seems to work well for the most part. Its against enemy aircraft in MP that I'm experiencing these issues.

Using TMS right to designate TWS targets is an excellent way to shoot yourself in the foot. It always locks the most irrelevant targets. Just manually select your targets with TMS up, and make sure they are appropriate system tracks before doing so. It can be a bit messy sometimes, especially on close formations. If you're within 20 nm I would not bother using TWS.

Using TMS right to designate TWS targets is an excellent way to shoot yourself in the foot. It always locks the most irrelevant targets. Just manually select your targets with TMS up' date=' and make sure they are appropriate system tracks before doing so. It can be a bit messy sometimes, especially on close formations. If you're within 20 nm I would not bother using TWS.[/quote']

 

I have to say, it feels like they've changed something with the last update. TMS no longer feels so useless

Using TMS right to designate TWS targets is an excellent way to shoot yourself in the foot. It always locks the most irrelevant targets. Just manually select your targets with TMS up' date=' and make sure they are appropriate system tracks before doing so. It can be a bit messy sometimes, especially on close formations. If you're within 20 nm I would not bother using TWS.[/quote']

 

Well that just proves something is not right then. If you watch the original video my Wags introducing TWS for the F-16, he has 6 targets. In the video he TMS right to the first lock, and then simply does TMS Right and fires an AIM-120 six times in a row. I have yet to be able to do this with more that two targets, and most of the time once I TMS Right and lock the first target subsequent TMS Rights do nothing. And in most cases it does have tracks on multiple targets.

 

As an example, last night I had 2 Mig-21s coming straight at me at equal altitude. I saw both DL-16 tracks (but the radar had not picked them up yet at about 60 miles). Around 40 miles one of the targets finally appears on radar. I wait until both appear. At this time they are about 30 miles out. I switch to TMS, and TMS right until the first lock. At this time both targets are boxed correctly. But then I TMS Right to switch targets and nothing happens. Now I TMS Down all the way and try again with TMS Rights all the way to lock. Same thing happens. Now they are just inside 20 miles, so I fire on the first Mig and on pitbull, I switch to RWS and engage the second Mig with an Aim-120 with an RWS STT lock.

 

Something is just not right. I should be able to switch between tracked targets with TMS Right.

Again maybe I'm doing something wrong the example above will shed some light on that. Please let me know.

 

Thanks!

Well that just proves something is not right then. If you watch the original video my Wags introducing TWS for the F-16, he has 6 targets. In the video he TMS right to the first lock, and then simply does TMS Right and fires an AIM-120 six times in a row. I have yet to be able to do this with more that two targets, and most of the time once I TMS Right and lock the first target subsequent TMS Rights do nothing. And in most cases it does have tracks on multiple targets.

 

As an example, last night I had 2 Mig-21s coming straight at me at equal altitude. I saw both DL-16 tracks (but the radar had not picked them up yet at about 60 miles). Around 40 miles one of the targets finally appears on radar. I wait until both appear. At this time they are about 30 miles out. I switch to TMS, and TMS right until the first lock. At this time both targets are boxed correctly. But then I TMS Right to switch targets and nothing happens. Now I TMS Down all the way and try again with TMS Rights all the way to lock. Same thing happens. Now they are just inside 20 miles, so I fire on the first Mig and on pitbull, I switch to RWS and engage the second Mig with an Aim-120 with an RWS STT lock.

 

Something is just not right. I should be able to switch between tracked targets with TMS Right.

Again maybe I'm doing something wrong the example above will shed some light on that. Please let me know.

 

Thanks!

I have encountered the same issue with TMS right, it was working for a whioe but for some reason it doesnt anymore. Half the time it wont even add them as tracks even if its my own radar displaying them.

Oldeus I also encounter that exact same issue. I really hope ED is reading this thread.

Why would they? Go and log a specific bug about this instead of hoping they notice it here, where it is basically off-topic.

YES SIR! lol

Hi Nineline. The only time I see the radar switch to RWS is when I TMS Down too much. I will try and get an online server tomorrow and record a track for you. I've been playing mostly SP lately with the Liberation campaign.