DCS: P-47D-30 Discussion

Check this video. It is Francis Gabreski (highest scoring US ace of European theatre) speaking about the P-47D

Bf109K4 was built in 1944 in only around 500 units. It is not reflective of real historic situation over europe in 1944. When fighting a 109 in the air 7 out of 10 times you were fighting against Bf109G6 and 2 out of 10 with G14. The 109K4 started to be "visible" in 1945 when it's production reached around 2500 units, but the allies had already achieved air superiority by that time and had numerical advantage.

In Jan 1945, the Luftwaffe had just under 1500 serviceable single engine fighters, split almost equally between Bf109s (slightly more) and Fw190s.

The K-4 was only slightly less numerous than the G-10 and both were powered by the DB605D engine.

My point Solty was that there must have been a large number of P-47Ds around evenn late in the war.

Unless you know that the USAF had a policy of scrapping all early models on day one of the release of a new variant? I thought not.

Earlier Bf-109s will be appearing. Just take a look at the list currently being projected by VEAO for starters!

We have the Kurfurst, we have the Dora, and we'll be getting the P-47D. Isn't that a good thing? It'll just mean that any kill achieved with the P-47D will gain you mucho kudos, proving your favorite fighter is truly a class act. Where is the problem with that philosophy?

We have the Kurfurst, we have the Dora, and we'll be getting the P-47D. Isn't that a good thing? It'll just mean that any kill achieved with the P-47D will gain you mucho kudos, proving your favorite fighter is truly a class act. Where is the problem with that philosophy?

Absolutely!

I am hoping for P-47D-30 as it is the most numerous of the bubble canopy Thunderbolts and IIRC, entering service in October 1944. It is every bit the contemporary of the Bf-109K4 and FW-190D9.

My point Solty was that there must have been a large number of P-47Ds around evenn late in the war.

 

Unless you know that the USAF had a policy of scrapping all early models on day one of the release of a new variant? I thought not.

 

Earlier Bf-109s will be appearing. Just take a look at the list currently being projected by VEAO for starters!

 

We have the Kurfurst, we have the Dora, and we'll be getting the P-47D. Isn't that a good thing? It'll just mean that any kill achieved with the P-47D will gain you mucho kudos, proving your favorite fighter is truly a class act. Where is the problem with that philosophy?

Most P-47 units were replaced by the P-51 in the European theater before the end of the war but I'll be just with which ever version of the P-47 is released even if its against the Dora/K4. Fly with a wingman at altitude and most decent pilots will be able to use it effectively.

That would for the 8th Air Force and they ended up in the 9th AF.

The number of P-51s on hand vs Germany was not greater than the number of P-47 til April 1945.

In the ETO, the P-47s outnumber the P-51s till the German surrender.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a542518.pdf

Most P-47 units were replaced by the P-51 in the European theater

The P-47 was still a very significant escort fighter. Here is the COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES OCTOBER 1944. You can go through the entire month and see that P-47 is used extensively as both an escort fighter and ground attack platform.

02 Oct 1944 ETO

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 4 missions are flown:

Mission 658: 887 B-17s and 549 fighters are dispatched to make PFF attacks

on industrial targets at Cologne and Kassel, Germany; 2 B-17s are lost:

1. 305 B-17s are dispatched to hit the Bettenhausen ordnance depot at

Kassel (129); targets of opportunity are Kassel (143), Fritzlar Airfield (12)

and other (1); 1 B-17 is damaged beyond repair and 89 damaged; 5 airmen are

WIA. Escort is provided by 228 P-47s and P-51s without loss.

2. 458 B-17s are dispatched to hit the Henschel motor vehicle plant at

Kassel (384); targets of opportunity are Wiesbaden (31), Gesecke (9) and

other (17); 2 B-17s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 144 damaged; 16

airmen are KIA, 1 WIA and 20 MIA. Escort is provided by 219 P-47s and P-51s

without loss.

3. 110 of 124 B-17s hit the Ford motor vehicle plant at Cologne; 1 B-17 is

damaged beyond repair and 36 damaged. Escort is provided by 53 P-47s and

P-51s without loss.

Mission 659: 308 B-24s are dispatched to make a PFF attack on the

marshalling yard at Hamm (266); targets of opportunity are Handorf Airfield

(29) and Munster (1); 2 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 144

damaged; 1 airman is KIA and 18 MIA. Escort is provided by 212 P-38s, P-47s

and P-51s; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot MIA), 2 damaged beyond repair and 1 damaged;

1 pilot is KIA.

Mission 660: 2 B-17s, escorted by 15 P-51s, drop leaflets on Dutch islands

during the day.

Mission 661: 5 B-24s and 3 B-17s drop leaflets in the Netherlands, France

and Germany during the night.

TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): HQ XXIX Tactical Air Command

(Provisional) goes into operation along with the US Ninth Army (this new

Tactical Air Command is formed from elements of the IX and XIX Tactical Air

Commands); in Germany, the 9th Bombardment Division strikes the industrial

area of Ubach and defended positions at Herbach; fighters fly armed

reconnaissance (and later night patrol) over Belgium, E France, and W Germany

and support the US First, Third, and Seventh Armies in E France and W

Germany. In Belgium, HQ IX Tactical Air Command moves advanced HQ from

Janoulx to to Verviers maintaining the close association with the US First

Army; HQ 368th Fighter Group and the 395th, 396th and 397th Fighter Squadrons

move from Laon, France to Chievres with P-47s; the 428th, 429th and 430th

Fighter Squadrons, 474th Fighter Group, move from Peronne, France to

Florennes. In France, HQ 386th Bombardment Group (Medium) and the 552d, 554th

and 555th Bombardment Squadrons (Medium) move from Great Dunmow, England to

Beaumont-sur-Oise with B-26s. In Luxembourg, the 161st Tactical

Reconnaissance Squadron, 363d Tactical Reconnaissance Group, moves from

Montrevil, France to Sandwieler with F-6s.

http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/wwii/usaf/html/Oct.44.html

http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/wwii/usaf/html/

Any looking for skin ideas for 8th AF a/c,

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/78thfg.php?action=list_records&recs=50&sort_order=ASC&order_by=Squ&recs=50&next_page=4#tabletop

The other thing people are forgetting as well is that we don't always have to set the A.I difficulty to excellent every time we fly against the 109. Not all Luftwaffe pilots were hardened veteran pilots, particularly towards the end of WW2 in Europe. So yes I may fancy my chances on occasions in the P-47 if I can fly her to her strengths.

It will not be given justice as fighter because it hauls around an extra 1000lbs of weight in the form of a turbo supercharger.

The heaviest turbo supercharger weight was 245lb. Did you mean turbo supercharger system which would include all the ducting?

The heaviest turbo supercharger weight was 245lb.

Yes we are talking installed weight not dry.

Yes we are talking installed weight not dry.

Who is this 'we'?

The only 'wet' is the oil used for the bearings.

The other thing people are forgetting as well is that we don't always have to set the A.I difficulty to excellent every time we fly against the 109. Not all Luftwaffe pilots were hardened veteran pilots, particularly towards the end of WW2 in Europe. So yes I may fancy my chances on occasions in the P-47 if I can fly her to her strengths.

Mate. We tend to fight human opponents that have even less mercy than AI. Most of 109 pilots tou'll find are veterans of other simulations. Some of them can fight in 1vsMany scenarions with proficiency.

P-47 will be a good plane... But cerainly not a great fighter.

I am sure that one can have fun dogfighting AI...but it is far from the"real" thing

Quite true Solty, in a simulator it's just that. You're not worried for your plane or yourself and alot of pilots will run their plane till it blows without a care so the tactics used vs human players tends to be a little different vs Ai

P-47 will be a good plane... But cerainly not a great fighter.

Stick the design's strengths and it is a great fighter. It is just a different fighter.

Rugged

Dive speed

Agility

Firepower

Why do think Zemke kept the "Wolfpack" at high altitude where the P-47 dominates? He wanted his guys to learn and maximize the strengths of the design. He recognized the airplane was different from what they were used too and that is was still a winner. His pilots just needed to learn how to fight the design.

Adolf Gallands brother was killed by Zemke's Wolfpack. He used to call them the "non-interferer's" because they just seemed to stay at altitude and never come down to fight.

His complacency and lack of respect for the P-47 pilots got him killed.

Stick the design's strengths and it is a great fighter. It is just a different fighter.

 

Rugged

 

Dive speed

 

Agility

 

Firepower

 

Why do think Zemke kept the "Wolfpack" at high altitude where the P-47 dominates? He wanted his guys to learn and maximize the strengths of the design. He recognized the airplane was different from what they were used too and that is was still a winner. His pilots just needed to learn how to fight the design.

 

Adolf Gallands brother was killed by Zemke's Wolfpack. He used to call them the "non-interferer's" because they just seemed to stay at altitude and never come down to fight.

 

His complacency and lack of respect for the P-47 pilots got him killed.

Yup, couldn't put it better myself. In the end it all comes down to pilot skill and knowledge base of your plane that will make the difference in combat.

Yeah, except with 150 octane it was fairly competitive at low altitude, anyway the P47D wasn't the contemporary of the K4 and the D9, it was the P47M.

Is it too late to get a P-47M instead?

Is it too late to get a P-47M instead?

And after we got the M, we substitute the Dora with the Ta152..because it entered Front line Service at the same time..

More planes is cool but spending time on a such a little used aircraft, at a time when basically there was no Luftwaffe would be such a waste of time. Especially when you consider that time could be spent on say an earlier D model with the old canopy.

I really hope someone does a 43 scenario instead of this focus on late war wonder weapons when there was basically almost no aerial combat.

There was only 100 P-47Ms built and they spent most of the time more or less grounded until April 1945.

Now a P-47N, which first flew in June 1944, were coming off the assembly lines in Dec 1944. Yes I know it wasn't in Europe.

More planes is cool but spending time on a such a little used aircraft, at a time when basically there was no Luftwaffe would be such a waste of time. Especially when you consider that time could be spent on say an earlier D model with the old canopy.

 

I really hope someone does a 43 scenario instead of this focus on late war wonder weapons when there was basically almost no aerial combat.

i wasn't really serious, that was just my counter to the P47M nonsense. They both don't belong in a WW2 simulator, maybe after all main aircraft have been included which may be in....20 years.

I think it's good as it is.

Just found out the comparison test between the EZ42 and a GGS gun sights that the gun sight came from a P-47 in Sept 1944.

Will the P-47 be getting a K-14 gun sight?

P-47D-40s were equiped with K-14, D-30 did not...

hopefully no