wait...is jamming actually modeled semi correctly in the JF-17???

if so, game changer

I didn't see the jamming working. What are you talking about?

It only was blinking when it turned on but the ECM needs to be modeled in each plane.

You are talking about the RWR?

That wasnt jamming, that was the pod understanding from where the enemy radars come from.

Jamming is EDs thing and right now, it's only noise jamming that's implemented.

I didn't see the jamming working. What are you talking about?

It only was blinking when it turned on but the ECM needs to be modeled in each plane.

 

 

You are talking about the RWR?

That wasnt jamming, that was the pod understanding from where the enemy radars come from.

i guess i misunderstood what the pod under the plane was for.

I didn't see the jamming working. What are you talking about?

It only was blinking when it turned on but the ECM needs to be modeled in each plane.

 

 

You are talking about the RWR?

That wasnt jamming, that was the pod understanding from where the enemy radars come from.

The pod is a jammer, KG-600. The SMS calls it SPJ(self protection jammer). They were mostly showing off ESM capabilities but it will be able to noise jam(I.e when they turned on “the music” on left MFD in the video separately from pressing SPJ button on right console)

The pod is a jammer, KG-600. The SMS calls it SPJ(self protection jammer). They were mostly showing off ESM capabilities but it will be able to noise jam(I.e when they turned on “the music” on left MFD in the video separately from pressing SPJ button on right console)

I know, I didn't understand what MobiSev was referring to.

It would be nice if ED implement an improved ECM in DCS.

Its been a long time since I don't fly FC3 but I remember it was "working" with its very basic functionality maybe 2 years ago, its still a thing or they completely removed it?

Noise jamming works, but Hornet and Tomcat don’t have jamming textures on the radar implemented

Noise jamming works, but Hornet and Tomcat don’t have jamming textures on the radar implemented

Indeed, and that's a pretty unfair advantage...

I know, I didn't understand what MobiSev was referring to.

 

 

It would be nice if ED implement an improved ECM in DCS.

Its been a long time since I don't fly FC3 but I remember it was "working" with its very basic functionality maybe 2 years ago, its still a thing or they completely removed it?

Yeah, sorry. The person in the video hyped the pod under the plane up. I thought we were going to see some improved jamming capabilities.

Yeah, sorry. The person in the video hyped the pod under the plane up. I thought we were going to see some improved jamming capabilities.

It would be a really good feature if DCS could have an improved ECM functionality.

Even if its not so close to how it works in real life it would improve the gameplay a lot.

DCS its supposed to be a simulator after all and to not have ECM is very unrealistic.

Jamming will create a lot of problems in MP. No wonder they delayed it and look to move basic FC3 into MAC and create two game lines.

Loving these new features and new toys in dcs that pod tho.

Jamming will create a lot of problems in MP. No wonder they delayed it and look to move basic FC3 into MAC and create two game lines.

Where have you heard that? I have not heard anything about moving FC3 to MAC.

MAC is a stand alone product that uses both low and high fidelity modules from DCS

but in a lower fidelity and non-clickable fashion. Creating a more accessible "game".

Luckily, FC3 aircraft are here to stay. Also update to Admiral Kuznetsov is planned (make sense with the Syria map)

Jamming would not really create a big problems in multiplayer. It just needs to be fleshed out a bit more, like possibility of deception jamming with false returns etc. Obviously this stuff is highly classified so a bit of guesswork and artistic license needs to be taken into consideration.But it will be a lot of work integrating all current modules so it makes sense in the DCS ecosystem. How the jamming signals are displayed and counter ECM,

Where have you heard that? I have not heard anything about moving FC3 to MAC.

MAC is a stand alone product that uses both low and high fidelity modules from DCS

but in a lower fidelity and non-clickable fashion. Creating a more accessible "game".

That was the old information ;-)

The MAC is still little odd ball here, as ED might very well do major upgrades to everything, and then backport them to the DCS as well, and this way maintain a easier update codebase when they do not have completely two different codes.

ED has lots of things on the table right now, not the modules but the core DCS features that they are going to implement in near future (some in months, some in years). And so on are the developers with SDK (and under NDA) depending what ED is doing.

Jamming will create a lot of problems in MP. No wonder they delayed it and look to move basic FC3 into MAC and create two game lines.

Jamming and ECM in general is a huge part of real air combat. We have entire aircraft dedicated solely to that mission because it's so important. It should be simulated.

Jamming and ECM in general is a huge part of real air combat. We have entire aircraft dedicated solely to that mission because it's so important. It should be simulated.

I mean I think older jammers can probably be simulated, but your talking about one of the highest amounts of classified items of anything to do with an air combat simulator. But modern stuff would probably be much more guess work than ED would like. But thats not to say we won't see a review of jamming and etc. in DCS sooner or later, there is just more other aspects that have higher priority currently.

Think new damage model, SAM AI overhaul, missile overhaul, and dynamic campaign, all items that require a high workload but also, are very much needed and add a lot more to DCS IMO. Not to say I dont want a better EW suite, just information is very difficult to come by and I think there are some other aspects that should be fixed/improved beforehand.

Guys, i would love real simulated ECM as much as the next man. But outside of basic noise jamming, we will most likely NEVER see any ECM in game; Reasons for this include:

1. EW is some of the most top secret tech on the battlefield today. Seeing as we can't even get reliable missile kinematics data with publicly available info; how would we ever get enough information to accurately simulate the capabilities of each pod/device?

2. The simplistic radar simulation in DCS does not allow for the more complex ECM techniques to be used. More or less any kind of DRFM techniques don't work because of this.

there is no range gate, thus no range gate pull-off can be used

there is no velocity gate, thus no velocity gate pull-off can be used

inverse gain, multiple false target signal injections (cross eye jamming), bin masking, etc.....

3. there is no actual ECCM being processed, its just a simple if X radar is looking at Y target, burn-through happens at Z range.

Even if there was actual ECM and ECCM being simulated, we get back to the original point; Where do you get accurate info to simulate these systems?

4. from a gameplay perspective nothing would be more frustrating than going up against a target with a full suite of ECM techniques. lets give an example: First your screen is just a green mess of noise saturation, when you finally burn through that, the ECM is switched up so you have so many false contacts you cannot possibly hope to lock the real return. If by some chance you manage to lock to correct contact, you would immediately be given false ranging, velocity, and angular data causing the radar to either drop lock(best scenario) or the ECM would have fooled your radar so thoroughly you would be shooting a missile a TD box with no plane even remotely close to it. leaving you wondering if your radar had a stroke. AFTER ALL THAT, if your fox 3 manages to get close enough to the enemy to begin terminal guidance, it is also being jammed, with the full complement of shit previously mentioned, so it goes into HOJ mode, but the jamming is coming from a towed decoy; so it misses the plane and destroys the decoy (assuming it fuzes at all, because we all know how reliable ED's proximity fuzing is)

Meanwhile the enemy's fox 3 is now probably close to fuzing and explosively rearranging your parts. leaving you with nothing to do but go back to the ED forum and file a bug report or some pseudoautistic complaint thread.

Guys, i would love real simulated ECM as much as the next man. But outside of basic noise jamming, we will most likely NEVER see any ECM in game; Reasons for this include:

 

1. EW is some of the most top secret tech on the battlefield today. Seeing as we can't even get reliable missile kinematics data with publicly available info; how would we ever get enough information to accurately simulate the capabilities of each pod/device?

 

 

2. The simplistic radar simulation in DCS does not allow for the more complex ECM techniques to be used. More or less any kind of DRFM techniques don't work because of this.

there is no range gate, thus no range gate pull-off can be used

there is no velocity gate, thus no velocity gate pull-off can be used

inverse gain, multiple false target signal injections (cross eye jamming), bin masking, etc.....

 

3. there is no actual ECCM being processed, its just a simple if X radar is looking at Y target, burn-through happens at Z range.

Even if there was actual ECM and ECCM being simulated, we get back to the original point; Where do you get accurate info to simulate these systems?

 

4. from a gameplay perspective nothing would be more frustrating than going up against a target with a full suite of ECM techniques. lets give an example: First your screen is just a green mess of noise saturation, when you finally burn through that, the ECM is switched up so you have so many false contacts you cannot possibly hope to lock the real return. If by some chance you manage to lock to correct contact, you would immediately be given false ranging, velocity, and angular data causing the radar to either drop lock(best scenario) or the ECM would have fooled your radar so thoroughly you would be shooting a missile a TD box with no plane even remotely close to it. leaving you wondering if your radar had a stroke. AFTER ALL THAT, if your fox 3 manages to get close enough to the enemy to begin terminal guidance, it is also being jammed, with the full complement of shit previously mentioned, so it goes into HOJ mode, but the jamming is coming from a towed decoy; so it misses the plane and destroys the decoy (assuming it fuzes at all, because we all know how reliable ED's proximity fuzing is)

 

Meanwhile the enemy's fox 3 is now probably close to fuzing and explosively rearranging your parts. leaving you with nothing to do but go back to the ED forum and file a bug report or some pseudoautistic complaint thread.

Yes please :)

Yes please :)

…if nothing else because it would provide the beast reason ever to introduce the Spark-Vark. :P

Guys, i would love real simulated ECM as much as the next man. But outside of basic noise jamming, we will most likely NEVER see any ECM in game; Reasons for this include:

 

1. EW is some of the most top secret tech on the battlefield today. Seeing as we can't even get reliable missile kinematics data with publicly available info; how would we ever get enough information to accurately simulate the capabilities of each pod/device?

DCS hasn't even scratched the surface of what's publicly available about electronic warfare. Plenty of room to go.

2. The simplistic radar simulation in DCS does not allow for the more complex ECM techniques to be used.

Bad reason

3. there is no actual ECCM being processed, its just a simple if X radar is looking at Y target, burn-through happens at Z range.

Same as almost everything else in DCS.

4. <I think fighting EW would be hard>

Good?

ECM is very dependent on ECCM, which makes it complex

The problem with modeling ECM in DCS or in any simulator environment is that the effect on radar and any missile tracking system is not only dependent on the jammer's capabilities but also on how the radar and missile's seeker and their tracking systems are implemented and how sensitive they are to jamming of different kinds.

If a jammer's basic capabilities (Jamming power (ERP), frequency coverage and agility, available jamming techniques...) are classified, the ECCM of the radars and the missile seekers are even more sensitive and deeply classified.

In several cases, the fighter OEM has licensed rights to the module developer and it's not in his interest that ED or a third party makes his radar and/or missiles sensitive to jamming with some assumptions of for instance the missiles sensitive to cross-eye jamming (an angle jamming technique that affects modern radars and missile seekers more or less).

Noise jamming effects and its burn through distance is basic and classical stuff and not sensitive. All radars are affected and it can be implemented with simple algorithms in a reasonable way. Anything more sophisticated like angle, range, velocity, glint, or polarization jamming steps into the ECM versus ECCM rathole and you are on thin ice in many ways.

The jammer simulation will be only as good as the radar simulation. Currently, DCS radar model is pretty much a rough simplification, so in order to have any decent jammer in DCS, they should perhaps start by making a better radar model.