ED Team NineLine Posted July 22, 2014 ED Team Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ok, clean thread for discussion of the module and its features.... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esac_mirmidon Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Thanks Sith. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB 605 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Some general information about K4 paint schemes from Wolowski's book "Bf 109 Late versions camouflage & markings". Might be handy for skin makers. Edited July 22, 2014 by DB 605 CPU: Intel Core i7-2600k @3.40GHz | Motherboard: Asus P8P67-M | Memory: Kingston 8GB DDR3 | OS W10 | GPU: Sapphire R9 290x 8GBDDR5 | Monitor: Samsung Syncmaster 24" | Devices: Oculus Rift, MS FFB 2 joystick, Saitek X 52 Pro throttle, Saitek Pro pedals, Gametrix Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted July 22, 2014 Author ED Team Share Posted July 22, 2014 And good resources on the squadrons that used the K-4 and/or their emblems... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB 605 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Couple more, this time from JaPo book "Messerschmitt Bf 109K camouflage & marking". Still the best book available about K4 paint schemes IMO. CPU: Intel Core i7-2600k @3.40GHz | Motherboard: Asus P8P67-M | Memory: Kingston 8GB DDR3 | OS W10 | GPU: Sapphire R9 290x 8GBDDR5 | Monitor: Samsung Syncmaster 24" | Devices: Oculus Rift, MS FFB 2 joystick, Saitek X 52 Pro throttle, Saitek Pro pedals, Gametrix Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) For units, http://www.ww2.dk/ and http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/LW_OBs.html This link has emblems, http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=50400 There is also this link with 1000s of 1o0 photos http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=126927 Edited July 22, 2014 by MiloMorai added photo link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans-Joachim Marseille Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) "Weisse 8" - "White 8", from DB 605's post #3. And the K-4 album from Flickr ... Edited July 22, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedrich-4B Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) From: An account of a combat between a Tempest V of 486(NZ) Sqn and an overall RLM76 K-4 of 13./JG27, 22nd February 1945 ( a little irony in that the Wnr of the K-4 was 331486): From: Edited July 23, 2014 by Friedrich-4/B [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]************************************* Fortunately, Mk IX is slightly stable, anyway, the required stick travel is not high... but nothing extraordinary. Very pleasant to fly, very controllable, predictable and steady. We never refuse to correct something that was found outside ED if it is really proven...But we never will follow some "experts" who think that only they are the greatest aerodynamic guru with a secret knowledge. :smartass: WWII AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon_ Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Thanks! :thumbup: Attache ta tuque avec d'la broche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) JGs that used the K-4 Unit - date introduced to unit (1944) - number of K-4s + other 109s at month end - (end of Dec) III./JG1 - Nil 1944 II./JG2 - Nov - 2 + 56 - (9 + 20) III./JG3 - Nov - 9 + 58 - (8 + 16) I./JG4 - Dec - 2 + 26 III./JG4 - Oct - 15 + 38 - (26 + 2) II./JG11 - Dec - 11 + 58 III./JG26 - Nov - 35 + 36 - (29 + 15) I./JG27 - Oct - 57 + 1 - (14 + 1) II./JG27 - Oct - 2 + 57 - (0 + 21) III./JG27 - Oct - 55 + 2 - (26 + 0) IV./JG27 - Oct - 4 + 58 - (0 + 32) III./JG51 - Nil 1944 II./JG52 - Nil 1944 III./JG52 - Nil 1944 II./JG53 - Dec - 5 + 37 III./JG53 - Nil 1944 I./JG77 - Dec - 1 + 37 II./JG77 - Nil 1944 III./JG77 - Oct - 57 - (27) JG list from Prien/Rodeike book Bf109F, G & K Edited July 25, 2014 by MiloMorai left out JG4, added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theChris Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Hello, so bf-109k4 is a late 1944 German aircraft. Main opposition consisting of p-51/47 d American aircraft and Spitfire mk9 and mk14 British aircraft. I read that fuels are limited to B4 for Axis and 100 octane for Allies. So k4 top speed at 1.5-2.25km ranged from 630-640km/h, with a maximum speed of 712km/h at 7.1km Altitude. A safe landing speed of 150km/h thanks to leading edge slats and high chamber wings, combined with an all moving tail plane (flying tail like) controlled by a trim wheel make it an innovative aircraft imo. Just a bit of useless information to spark conversation about the 109 k4 and its competition to come in DCS World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted July 25, 2014 Author ED Team Share Posted July 25, 2014 Does anyone have any good info on ordnance used on the K-4, rockets, bombs etc? I believe the 21 cm rockets were used on it, anything else? Were the R4M ever used on it? What bombs were qualified for it? Anything else? Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The 109K-4 had limited ordnance capacity. There were plans for it to carry a 250kg or 500kg bomb, but good luck finding evidence that it ever happened. I also haven't seen 21cm rockets. For obvious reasons the 109K-4 was mostly a dedicated interceptor. P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted July 25, 2014 Author ED Team Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) I thought I saw something somewhere for the 21cm, but now maybe it was the G's, Have to look again.. thanks for the info. We definitely need something to intercept.... The K-4 cockpit did have the controls for bombs and 21cm rockets as well. Edited July 25, 2014 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altflieger Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Oooh! An 8 inch gun! Just the one round then I expect Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted July 25, 2014 Author ED Team Share Posted July 25, 2014 Oooh! An 8 inch gun! Just the one round then I expect Sith. One on each wing :) On the G-6 Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedrich-4B Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 III./JG 26 used K-4s equipped with the 20mm cannon gondolas (Rüstsätze IV). [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]************************************* Fortunately, Mk IX is slightly stable, anyway, the required stick travel is not high... but nothing extraordinary. Very pleasant to fly, very controllable, predictable and steady. We never refuse to correct something that was found outside ED if it is really proven...But we never will follow some "experts" who think that only they are the greatest aerodynamic guru with a secret knowledge. :smartass: WWII AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Smiles Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 *Edit: I wasn't faster on the keyboard lol, thanks for the answer Friedrich* Didn't they have the option for cannon gondolas under the wings for bomber intercept? Granted that isn't explosive ordinance, but just wondering if that was possible to arm on the K4? "Hurled headlong flaming from the ethereal sky; With hideous ruin and combustion down; To bottomless perdition, there to dwell; In adamantine chains and penal fire" (RIG info is outdated, will update at some point) i5 @3.7GHz (OC to 4.1), 16GB DDR3, Nvidia GTX 970 4GB, TrackIR 5 & TrackClip Pro, TM Warthog HOTAS, VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV, Razer Blackshark Headset, Obutto Ozone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted July 25, 2014 Author ED Team Share Posted July 25, 2014 If anyone has any good docs on the underwing cannons and wants to share it please do, otherwise I will look around for it. I am positive Yo-Yo already has wind-tunnel data for most external attachements including these... Be interested to see if there was an cockpit mods needed for this. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Does anyone have any good info on ordnance used on the K-4, rockets, bombs etc? I believe the 21 cm rockets were used on it, anything else? Were the R4M ever used on it? What bombs were qualified for it? Anything else? * the ever-present 300 liter droptank of course, feeding into the main tank * 21 cm rockets were installable, as on the G-series. Not sure if that ever happened, given the general lack of use of the rockets by the 109K arrived. The manual says that the option (wiring?) was removed from later production planes, but given that we are getting an early 109K, it seems legit, or at least, fun :) * 2cm Mauser MG 151/20, gondolas guns, 135 rpg, as on 109G (R IV) * bomb sizes up to 500 kg (also 250 kg of course), all sort of types, ranging from the common SC, SD, PC 250 or 500 series. Also by this time the use of the AB series cluster bomb containers was much favored, these were loaded with a large variety of anti personnel i.e. SD 2 "butterfly" boms or anti-tank (hollow charge SD 4 HL) bomblets. Towards the end of the war there was also an increasing use of 109Ks against advancing US Army columns. Cannot recall if the 4x50 kg loadout was still used (given the AB bomb containers being so much more effective). * R4M, no I think, never seen trace of it, perhaps on experimental scale only. http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 *Edit: I wasn't faster on the keyboard lol, thanks for the answer Friedrich* Didn't they have the option for cannon gondolas under the wings for bomber intercept? Granted that isn't explosive ordinance, but just wondering if that was possible to arm on the K4? Possible/planned, but rarely used if ever. A few K-4s were delivered with an MG 151/20 in place of the Mk 108, but I'm not asking for that as an option. :smilewink: P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted July 25, 2014 Author ED Team Share Posted July 25, 2014 it seems legit, or at least, fun :) Totally agree... if the options are there then no reason not to include these... mission designers can limit as they see fit. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 If anyone has any good docs on the underwing cannons and wants to share it please do, otherwise I will look around for it. I am positive Yo-Yo already has wind-tunnel data for most external attachements including these... Be interested to see if there was an cockpit mods needed for this. They housed one 2cm Mauser MG 151/20 each, percussion firing type, unsynchronized. Tha ammunition is actually stored in the wing in a drum-like ammunition belt container. . They had most commonly reported to have 135 round for each gun. Some other sources mention down to 125 and up to 140 rpg. The two guns and their accessorizes weigthed 135 kg, and 215 kg complete with ammunition. The gondolas clean aerdynamic drag was equivalent of +0,0215 sq. meters of Δ[Fcw], or resulted roughly about -8 km/h speed loss at SL. To this needed to be added the increased induced drag resulting from the added weight of 215kg, i.e. roughly equivalent to about - 1,5 km/h at SL and about -6 km/h at rated altitude, as per this January 1944 document: http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G_Leistungzusammenstellung/Leistungzusammenstellung109G.html#dragitems_table The harmonization and external ballistics of the similarly armed G-6/U4 m. R VI was as follows: http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Bf 109 K-4m W.Nr. 570 xxx "Weisse 6", 9. /JG 4, Germany, Spring 1945, with something under the belly that very much looks like an AB (250?) series bomb container. http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The usual 300 liter drop tanks on 109Ks http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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