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Unexplained bolters


Sandman1330

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I've been struggling lately with strange bolters. I can be on the ball, reasonably stable and on AoA, then hit the deck with a centered ball (or close to centered, maybe one off), and still get a bolter. The sight picture seems right, and it feels like I'm hitting the deck at the right spot.

 

It seems to happen more when I have to make a last minute correction to avoid going high, so maybe I'm hitting the deck with a bit more descent rate. I know this can cause the hook to bounce off the deck and miss the wires, but I also know that in rough seas they need to be able to plant it REAL hard. It doesn't feel like I'm planting it that hard.

 

I haven't been able to get a good track, as they always come out corrupted, so it's tough to analyze what's going on.

 

Anyone else experience something similar, or have any thoughts?

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Hook bounce is one likely option if you've just cut power and your descent rate is high. Nobody 'plants' anything; descent rate is descent rate, even with pitching decks. If you ease guns to land you're in as much trouble as if you T1W.


Edited by Raisuli
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I've been struggling lately with strange bolters. I can be on the ball, reasonably stable and on AoA, then hit the deck with a centered ball (or close to centered, maybe one off), and still get a bolter. The sight picture seems right, and it feels like I'm hitting the deck at the right spot.

 

It seems to happen more when I have to make a last minute correction to avoid going high, so maybe I'm hitting the deck with a bit more descent rate. I know this can cause the hook to bounce off the deck and miss the wires, but I also know that in rough seas they need to be able to plant it REAL hard. It doesn't feel like I'm planting it that hard.

 

I haven't been able to get a good track, as they always come out corrupted, so it's tough to analyze what's going on.

 

Anyone else experience something similar, or have any thoughts?

 

"Reasonably stable and on AoA"

 

"It seems to happen more when I have to make a last minute correction to avoid going high"

 

It sounds like your changing pitch still?

 

It's a hard habit to change after not flying like that for so long. Pitch for speed, throttle for Glide slope.

 

Trim for on speed AOA and never pitch for glide slope when landing.

 

You also need to come off the throttle just before rolling wings level because of the extra lift you gain, then catch the ball with the throttle once wings level and come down the glide slope. power on power off, power on power off. It's energizing the ball not a set power etc.

 

Watch the rock solid AOA in this video below (Set and locked in on the downwind leg). I was testing using ICLS here for case 1. The bars do help when coming into the groove at the correct height.

 


Edited by David OC

i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro

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"Reasonably stable and on AoA"

 

"It seems to happen more when I have to make a last minute correction to avoid going high"

 

It sounds like your changing pitch still?

 

It's a hard habit to change after flying not like that for so long.

 

Trim for on speed AOA and never pitch for glide slope when landing.

 

You also need to come off the throttle just before rolling wings level because of the extra lift you gain, then catch the ball with the throttle once wings level and come down the glide slope. power on power off, power on power off. It's energizing the ball not a set power etc.

 

Sorry, when I say reasonably, I mean within the e bracket but perhaps deflected slightly from the center due to power changes. I don’t control pitch with stick at all.

 

For the ball, within one ball either side of center.

 

I didn’t want to say bang on, since I don’t think anyone but the absolute best of us can fly a perfect pass and didn’t want to sound like I think I can! Though I did once, and forgot to put the darn hook down lol

Ryzen 7 5800X3D / Asus Crosshair VI Hero X370 / Corsair H110i / Sapphire Nitro+ 6800XT / 32Gb G.Skill TridentZ 3200 / Samsung 980 Pro M.2 / Virpil Warbrd base + VFX and TM grips / Virpil CM3 Throttle / Saitek Pro Combat pedals / Reverb G2

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Try taking off ashore or do an airstart to get a track of the landing attempt if you want to analyze it afterwards. Being on a moving boat corrupts the track from that point on.

 

If tried this a few times, but every time I do, I don’t run into the issue! Lol

Ryzen 7 5800X3D / Asus Crosshair VI Hero X370 / Corsair H110i / Sapphire Nitro+ 6800XT / 32Gb G.Skill TridentZ 3200 / Samsung 980 Pro M.2 / Virpil Warbrd base + VFX and TM grips / Virpil CM3 Throttle / Saitek Pro Combat pedals / Reverb G2

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Sorry, when I say reasonably, I mean within the e bracket but perhaps deflected slightly from the center due to power changes. I don’t control pitch with stick at all.

 

For the ball, within one ball either side of center.

 

I didn’t want to say bang on, since I don’t think anyone but the absolute best of us can fly a perfect pass and didn’t want to sound like I think I can! Though I did once, and forgot to put the darn hook down lol

 

On speed AOA will not change (or very very little) because of power changes. Well unless you hold full burner on etc.

 

Are you moving it more than this video below?

 

Watch from 6:05

 

 

 

I would say your coming down to hard then, as I come down to hit the deck from the last power pump. I'm going to full burner just as I'm about to hit, the last power pump. If your not setup properly from the groove? Then wave yourself off like you would need to IRL.:)


Edited by David OC

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No, not moving more than that, maybe half deflection within the e bracket.

 

I do, however, pump the throttle a lot. I think part of it is difficulty seeing the ball until I’m well inside a half mile (VR), which makes it hard to stabilize early and I have to make last minute changes. I find myself fighting to keep the ball centered on short final. The once I tried without VR was smoother. VR makes carrier landing hard but everything else, from AAR to form to ACM, is vastly superior. Maybe they will someday come out with the much wished for ball window!

Ryzen 7 5800X3D / Asus Crosshair VI Hero X370 / Corsair H110i / Sapphire Nitro+ 6800XT / 32Gb G.Skill TridentZ 3200 / Samsung 980 Pro M.2 / Virpil Warbrd base + VFX and TM grips / Virpil CM3 Throttle / Saitek Pro Combat pedals / Reverb G2

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See my VR video above Sandman1330 in full screen.

 

Try landing with the ICLS setup and fly the horizontal bar (When it shows up) at around the 45 degree mark and keep flying it until you see the ball.

i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro

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See my VR video above Sandman1330 in full screen.

 

Try landing with the ICLS setup and fly the horizontal bar (When it shows up) at around the 45 degree mark and keep flying it until you see the ball.

 

I tried it once or twice, but found the HUD a bit cluttered. I’ll give it another go though, there must be some bad habit I need to break and a new approach might do it. Thx! :)

Ryzen 7 5800X3D / Asus Crosshair VI Hero X370 / Corsair H110i / Sapphire Nitro+ 6800XT / 32Gb G.Skill TridentZ 3200 / Samsung 980 Pro M.2 / Virpil Warbrd base + VFX and TM grips / Virpil CM3 Throttle / Saitek Pro Combat pedals / Reverb G2

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No, not moving more than that, maybe half deflection within the e bracket.

 

I do, however, pump the throttle a lot. I think part of it is difficulty seeing the ball until I’m well inside a half mile (VR), which makes it hard to stabilize early and I have to make last minute changes. I find myself fighting to keep the ball centered on short final. The once I tried without VR was smoother. VR makes carrier landing hard but everything else, from AAR to form to ACM, is vastly superior. Maybe they will someday come out with the much wished for ball window!

 

I cannot really see the ball at all in VR, all I see is a green line, so don't use it (collective incredulous gasps from the purists :)).

Turning onto finals, on speed and about 600ft, all I do is try to keep the TVV locked on the front end of the flight deck at all times. This usually catches a wire, which being a 95% land lubber is just fine for me the odd time I need to land on a carrier.

 

I guess I need a Marines skin for the Hornet for realism, just been using default up to press. Think I will go for the red devils.


Edited by Tinkickef

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Even if everything is perfect, a bolter can still occur according to documentaries I've read and watched. While they have it down to a near exact science, of the optimal window a particular plane should operate in, it can still occur. So never be over confident in your approach and always full power on touchdown

 

It looks like a lot of other useful advice has been offered in this thread, which should guide you to that window.

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