Improved ATC System

Hi ED and community.

I'll just go ahead and put it bluntly.

I am a bit concerned about the status of the ATC.

Last year it looked like it was just around the corner, Wags talked about it in his live streams and it was said to be a major topic for 2015.

To provide you with a bit of background:

I basically stopped creating complex DCS missions in 2011 and one of the major reasons for that was that the AI in general, and the ATC specifically was so bad it urgently needed an overhaul.

So I went here and created that thread (which even was stickied for a while) http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=108313

Now, five years later, there are some small improvements, but still not more.

There seems to be something being done on the WW2-side of the ATC, see this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170183

But I can't help but wonder: Does that mean ED just started to look at the topic, or is it already progressed quite far and now it is only adjusted for the WW2 era? That would be good news!

So ED, if you read this, please just drop us a note on that progress. Is there a chance 2.5 will feature a new, overhauled ATC to put it at least near the level of other sims, and of course make it better if possible?

Or is there anything blocking that progress? Can we help you by providing you with sources or something?

And what do you guys out there in the community think? Am I exaggerating? Do you think the ATC is fine and the fix (or improvement if you don't like calling it buggy) shouldn't have a high priority? From my point of view the ATC and AI are the most important improvements coding-wise, and one of the longest standing issues in DCSW.

But of course that's my personal view. I'd like to hear yours as well.

+1

It got really quiet on this subject.

I agree, the AI and ATC are one of the biggest points against DCS compared to other sims.

Do you remember the AI and ATC in Lock-On? Make a comparison, and you won't find any major improvement.

I believe that AI ATC is not a thing to waste time on. It needs to be "intelligent" in such amount that ED needs a daughter company to develop it.

Developing tools that enable users to be ATC - proven to be the right solution in the SIM world.

Knowing this is a flight sim, an ATC system is important, so as ED improves the DCS, an improved ATC wouldn't be bad, so I don't think you are exaggerating. :)

The last update I remember was from the end of last year when Wags was streaming Nevada. We could see that they were working on it for 2.0 version but did not finish it before Nevada launched.

From what I can tell it was postponed for 2.5 merge.

I believe that AI ATC is not a thing to waste time on. It needs to be "intelligent" in such amount that ED needs a daughter company to develop it.

Developing tools that enable users to be ATC - proven to be the right solution in the SIM world.

I see where you come from, and although I think that a proper ATC on par with the ones in other sims is not too complex to code, from an MP point of view I think I could agree, if there are no AI planes involved.

But let me just give an example: If you do a MP mission that also contains AI planes, and they get stuck, and you can't give them permissions to takeoff and so on, that's really annoying. It happened to us during the - otherwise cool - Mudspike fly-in. And at that point it completely breaks immersion.

And then of course SP. Mission and Campaign makers have to do a lot of work to make missions halfway realistic by bypassing a core game mechanic. I think that shouldn't be needed.

Aginor, I agree with you completely. I only do SP and the immersion when there is a good working ATC is immeasurable! I remember many moons ago when the original A-10C came out and how engrossed I became with the ATC that was there at that time on the NTTR map... That's what really brought me back to DCS after playing with Flanker, Lockon and the other early iterations. As far as what Pitot said, that only seems to apply for MP, not SP and we all know there are many more SP people out there... We all have our own priorities but, as you have said, this one has been on the back burner for sooooo long it is time, imho, of course. :D

Well, yeah, sure - it is needed for Single Player. I've totaly neglected that. And you're absolutely right: It is very needed in SP, even in small MP sessions with friends. But IMO the biggest problem there is that when AI unit can't do what it should - it just stays stuck. Like interceptors on Blue Flag if you run out on the runway while they're taxiing. Current SP ATC just needs slight overhaul and maybe adding few additional options. Basicaly it needs tweaking. It needs to:

Be able to make AI planes reaquire taskings (continue taxi etc.)

Be able to change runway assignment properly

Be able to direct you at exact taxi route (eg Bravo 1-1, you're free to taxi, take gate D, hold short of rwy 08)

Be able to deny approach to AI planes

Be able to send AI planes to holding points (with correct data of what the holding point is)

Be able to send player to holding points

Be able to deny landing due to weather/damaged rwy and give you directions to alternate airfield, along with comms data for it

Be able to be ATC. :)

BE ABLE TO GIVE METEO DATA ON REQUEST! I hate writing down meteo on airfield because it won't tell me when I am coming back home later and am on approach.

There is more, but I am sure you rest of the bunch will come up with it in next posts.

I really didn't care too much about an improved ATC until I played another sim with an in depth ATC... now I cannot wait!

Dynamic Campaign along with improved ATC is what DCS needs a lot. It will make the servers a living breathing place to be in.

The last forum pool where ED asked what people want in future quite expressed that.

Even though it will take some time, we will eventually get it. :)

Dynamic Campaign along with improved ATC is what DCS needs a lot. It will make the servers a living breathing place to be in.

 

The last forum pool where ED asked what people want in future quite expressed that.

 

Even though it will take some time, we will eventually get it. :)

:thumbup:

Agreed that would be most awesome.

I really didn't care too much about an improved ATC until I played another sim with an in depth ATC... now I cannot wait!

you got me curious. might I ask which sim?

you got me curious. might I ask which sim?

I suppose Falcon 4.x? :)

you got me curious. might I ask which sim?

This may sound really negative, sorry. But that's how I perceive it at the moment:

That applies to most other flight sims released since the year 2000 or so. :(

As for the dynamic campaign: I may actually disagree there, I don't find it convincing at all in that other sim.

(also that's not the topic here, please keep this thread centered around the ATC)

I might also add that a good ATC should be able to navigate you for landing in case of instrument failure and bad weather.

That is at least what Im looking for the most.

But as I said previously, new ATC is being worked on and we will hopefully see it soon.

I might also add that a good ATC should be able to navigate you for landing in case of instrument failure and bad weather.

 

That is at least what Im looking for the most.

 

But as I said previously, new ATC is being worked on and we will hopefully see it soon.

Absolutely!

Right now the ATC is not very helpful at all in emergency situations.

I was wondering the same about the ATC status.

But i wouldnt stop at the ATC only but im also missing things like general chatter between other flights that would make the immersion alot intenser.

Dynamic campaign where you get sucked in and feel your part of something because at the moment its fun to fly a mission but thats it. Theres no real consequence or motivation to change the way you perform or adept.

I hope this part of the DCS World doesnt fall behind.

I suppose Falcon 4.x? :)

This, in its latest BMS version, has an ATC I wish for in DCS. It can manage quiet complex ATC operations with many aircrafts taking off and landing, putting them in a queue and assign them to different holding patterns if necessary. And much more!

The DCS ATC is so much behind this, I can't even.... :music_whistling:

Please, guys. You know that ED don't like if we compare to other sims too much.

I think we all have a rough idea how a good ATC could look like. I hope Wags or one of the coders finds the time to tell us what we can maybe expect in the future. :)

I asked because I only played BMS. don't know any other sim's ATC, like FSX or X-Plane or you name it.

I love BMS's ATC. Love when they say "welcome back", my position in the queue, tell to circle around at given altitude, "sunrise" (well technically it's not the ATC but I love that line)...

also, please, if ED could do like BMS and mix male and female controllers would be awesome!

I hope Wags or one of the coders finds the time to tell us what we can maybe expect in the future. :)

...in case there is anything to report.

+1

I am sure that ED has access to how Military ATC works out there in the real world, and I am sure that their DCS ATC overhaul will be as comprehensive as we all hope for...

Of course, there's always the much dreaded wait until us mere mortals will have access to that.:)

Perhaps it is kind of on the back burner with all the focus being on the merge into 2.5. Undoubtedly it is still on the list to do. I agree it would be very nice to have an updated ATC.

Yeah, they haven't been very specific about what they plan to implement but it looks like it won't happen until the merge into 2.5. Anyhow, Chizh posted something regarding the improvements coming in January on this page.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151478&highlight=ATC&page=2