Excited about Sabre but will only buy if authentic theater is provided

I'm not being intolerant here. I have bought many, many DCS products and have been deeply involved in A-10C from Beta, as both a user and mission designer. However, having owned DCS/ED products since Lock On, I have to ask: how long can they possibly expect us to put up with no new theaters? I am so tired of the ancient Russian/Georgian theater as used from Lock On onwards -- what's that, 12 years? -- and so baffled by the five-year delay in completing the Nevada map (originally offered as a free add-on for Beta purchasers of A-10C) that, in spite of my admiration for DCS's values and standards in high-fidelity simulation of combat aircraft, I have been on a long hiatus that is unlikely to end until they provide a new map. The F-86 fought in Korea, as you all know; it's just too much of an immersion-breaker for me to have to fly the sim over Russia.

I would imagine that the third-party developers of the F-86 must be frustrated by this, too. A good simulation of that aircraft and the conditions in which it was deployed ought to include a new theater map. I find the press release a bit disingenuous, I'm afraid, because although it notes that the Sabre was famous for fighting over Korea, it fails to mention that no Korea map will be available. This leads me to assume that we will have to operate this aircraft over the same desperately tired and in this case inauthentic terrain. I am not trying to sound irritable here, as DCS and its partners are the best, possibly the only, makers of high-fidelity combat aircraft sims for the PC but much as I want to dive into the Sabre, it's a no-buy for me until I get at least an ETA for new, appropriate and fresh theaters.

Exactly so. No enemy Mi-15bis it's useless.: Thumbdown:

Exactly so. No enemy Mi-15bis it's useless.: Thumbdown:

You could always release your own Mi-15bis if not having one is preventing you from buying a quality product.

I am not trying to sound irritable here, as DCS and its partners are the best, possibly the only, makers of high-fidelity combat aircraft sims for the PC but much as I want to dive into the Sabre, it's a no-buy for me until I get at least an ETA for new, appropriate and fresh theaters.

Although it's not exactly Korea but Nevada is in the pipeline from ED, I don't think new theater's can be designed by 3rd parties as EDGE has not even been released to the public. Therefore I doubt anyone outside of ED would have the tools to design a new theater. It seems to me you are asking in the wrong people, BST is not exactly ED or the devs behind EDGE when it comes to the release of new maps

A- Need wait to Eagle Dynamics new EDGE graphic engine complete the DCS: World integration (release on 1.3.0 DCS: W version), and the SDK will get access to the 3rd parties (RRG Studios partner work on new WW2 Normandy map, and no news of BSK partner will be that SDK.). Build a new map with the actual engine before EDGE will have complete has a loss of time (the old Afghanistan / Vladivostok and Spain testing map projects put on hold world them some time ago awaiting the new engine).

B- Yo-Yo (ED member) confirm on the Russian forum with a 3rd party has working on a Mig-15Bis add-on air-plane, but no official stamen or ETA time over them.

Exactly so. No enemy Mi-15bis it's useless.: Thumbdown:

Both in press release and on facebook they stated, that AI MiG-15 should come with Sabre. And if I remember correctly, some developer on russian forum said that MiG-15 will come as flyable in future as well [citation needed].

Having the exact land theatre close to its historical activity is a bit wrong put in here or any other such request. You are flying a plane/heli, driving a tank or a train or whatever you want.

However, people frustration about seeing same picture again and again is a bit different story. I really hope that EDGE will be "open" enough to let 3rd party's build their own maps.

That's being said there is no direct relation between a good airplane and the place it will fly. The planes will fly identically no matter how the land behind looks like. I

Excited about Sabre but will only buy whether or not authentic theater is provided

!!

I'm not being intolerant here. I have bought many, many DCS products and have been deeply involved in A-10C from Beta, as both a user and mission designer. However, having owned DCS/ED products since Lock On, I have to ask: how long can they possibly expect us to put up with no new theaters? I am so tired of the ancient Russian/Georgian theater as used from Lock On onwards -- what's that, 12 years? -- and so baffled by the five-year delay in completing the Nevada map (originally offered as a free add-on for Beta purchasers of A-10C) that, in spite of my admiration for DCS's values and standards in high-fidelity simulation of combat aircraft, I have been on a long hiatus that is unlikely to end until they provide a new map. The F-86 fought in Korea, as you all know; it's just too much of an immersion-breaker for me to have to fly the sim over Russia.

 

I would imagine that the third-party developers of the F-86 must be frustrated by this, too. A good simulation of that aircraft and the conditions in which it was deployed ought to include a new theater map. I find the press release a bit disingenuous, I'm afraid, because although it notes that the Sabre was famous for fighting over Korea, it fails to mention that no Korea map will be available. This leads me to assume that we will have to operate this aircraft over the same desperately tired and in this case inauthentic terrain. I am not trying to sound irritable here, as DCS and its partners are the best, possibly the only, makers of high-fidelity combat aircraft sims for the PC but much as I want to dive into the Sabre, it's a no-buy for me until I get at least an ETA for new, appropriate and fresh theaters.

Same here.

Not buying it until proper scenery and AI objects are in-game or included with F-86. There is absolutely no immersion if you fly this plane over modern day Georgia against opponents completely unrelated to your plane.

I'm getting the F-86 because I like the F-86.

its not that bad. I'm sure ED will pickup a new partner specialized in the Vietnam war/ Korean war theater. Most guys here including me are with you, but remember we're here because we love the every year or 2 years aircraft they (or 3rd party devs) produce. I for one would LOVE to have a Vietnamese map, but that takes research and research costs money. They just need to find other devs with experience on Vietnam/Korea.

With all that being said, I am afraid any aircraft ED releases tingles me (and my poor credit card) spine to buy, even if I don't use it, I find having a fleet of aircrafts desirable for our dying (then resuscitated) hobby. Be big about this, its what they offer.

I'm not being intolerant here.

No, you're being ridiculous and ignorant. Until EDGE is done, there won't be any decent new maps, just low quality ones. I'd rather see them finish EDGE than throw out crappy maps.

You not gonna buy an undoubtedly amazing module? Bad for you. Keep flying the same old planes and helicopters that you've probably flown for years now then, though it'll hardly make for a fresh DCS experience.

Please folks, maintain discussion civilizated.

No, you're being ridiculous and ignorant. Until EDGE is done, there won't be any decent new maps, just low quality ones. I'd rather see them finish EDGE than throw out crappy maps.

 

You not gonna buy an undoubtedly amazing module? Bad for you. Keep flying the same old planes and helicopters that you've probably flown for years now then, though it'll hardly make for a fresh DCS experience.

Set jimmies to maximum rustle! Sheesh, no need to be so harsh. OP is just sharing his opinion.

I do agree though. I wont be picking up the Sabre until I feel I would use it. I'm sure it's a quality product, but it hasn't demonstrated any value to me as of yet.

I'm not being intolerant here. I have bought many, many DCS products and have been deeply involved in A-10C from Beta, as both a user and mission designer. However, having owned DCS/ED products since Lock On, I have to ask: how long can they possibly expect us to put up with no new theaters? I am so tired of the ancient Russian/Georgian theater as used from Lock On onwards -- what's that, 12 years? -- and so baffled by the five-year delay in completing the Nevada map (originally offered as a free add-on for Beta purchasers of A-10C) that, in spite of my admiration for DCS's values and standards in high-fidelity simulation of combat aircraft, I have been on a long hiatus that is unlikely to end until they provide a new map. The F-86 fought in Korea, as you all know; it's just too much of an immersion-breaker for me to have to fly the sim over Russia.

 

I would imagine that the third-party developers of the F-86 must be frustrated by this, too. A good simulation of that aircraft and the conditions in which it was deployed ought to include a new theater map. I find the press release a bit disingenuous, I'm afraid, because although it notes that the Sabre was famous for fighting over Korea, it fails to mention that no Korea map will be available. This leads me to assume that we will have to operate this aircraft over the same desperately tired and in this case inauthentic terrain. I am not trying to sound irritable here, as DCS and its partners are the best, possibly the only, makers of high-fidelity combat aircraft sims for the PC but much as I want to dive into the Sabre, it's a no-buy for me until I get at least an ETA for new, appropriate and fresh theaters.

as far as I am aware, all aircraft occupy that enigmatic medium we call sky. It is composed principally of Nitrogen (2.0x10^25 molecules/m^-3), Oxygen (5.4x10^24 molecules/m^-3), Argon (2.4x10^23 molecules/m^-3), Water vapour (1.3x10^23 molecules/m^-3)and Carbon Dioxide (9.7x10^21 molecules/m^-3). Methane and other trace gases are also present in significant quantities + a large quantity of aluminium, tungsten, plastic and jet fuel are also present, though on a strictly temporary basis - subject to the laws of gravity.

All these figures are highly variable, so these are typical values.

My point is, that ALL of the aircraft simulated here fly in a virtual atmosphere that is an exact replica of the one we all occupy. As far as the F86 is concerned, it only interacts with terra firma on take-off and landing, or shortly after departing controlled flight.

Do you fly whilst looking critically at the ground, or can you not just for a few hours suspend your disbelief, and imagine that the hazy view of the lithosphere or asthenosphere you glimpse from your cockpit is in fact a forgotten small corner of a Korean field that is forever... (insert your chosen motherland here) in which your many mangled virtual corpses will be buried after the previously mentioned aircraft/ground interface (that's crashes and landings to us mere mortals)?

Call me sarcastic, call me anything you want, it matters not a jot to me. But let me point out a few simple truths.

1. Everything comes to he who waits.

2. We rely on the goodwill, and continued support of a small number of highly talented computer geniuses who's mysterious talents are a mystery to we mortals.

3. While many comments here are constructive, and have a purpose, might I suggest that those among us who find it hard to say anything positive, or that contribute towards the advancement of this amazing simulation keep those thought to themselves.

4. Buy the F86, or don't buy the F86, I am sure no one else here is worried whether or not you want it because you have a granny in the WRENS, or the particular field you plummet into is a paddy field, a crop or Louisiana's finest corn, or the latrine recently dug by the Georgian army private you just vaporised with a Mk-82 Air that the developers had the audacity to paint the wrong hue of olive green.

5. Stop annoying everyone with your I want it and I want it now drivel!

as far as I am aware, all aircraft occupy that enigmatic medium we call sky. It is composed principally of Nitrogen (2.0x10^25 molecules/m^-3), Oxygen (5.4x10^24 molecules/m^-3), Argon (2.4x10^23 molecules/m^-3), Water vapour (1.3x10^23 molecules/m^-3)and Carbon Dioxide (9.7x10^21 molecules/m^-3). Methane and other trace gases are also present in significant quantities + a large quantity of aluminium, tungsten, plastic and jet fuel are also present, though on a strictly temporary basis - subject to the laws of gravity.

 

All these figures are highly variable, so these are typical values.

 

My point is, that ALL of the aircraft simulated here fly in a virtual atmosphere that is an exact replica of the one we all occupy. As far as the F86 is concerned, it only interacts with terra firma on take-off and landing, or shortly after departing controlled flight.

 

Do you fly whilst looking critically at the ground, or can you not just for a few hours suspend your disbelief, and imagine that the hazy view of the lithosphere or asthenosphere you glimpse from your cockpit is in fact a forgotten small corner of a Korean field that is forever... (insert your chosen motherland here) in which your many mangled virtual corpses will be buried after the previously mentioned aircraft/ground interface (that's crashes and landings to us mere mortals)?

 

Call me sarcastic, call me anything you want, it matters not a jot to me. But let me point out a few simple truths.

 

1. Everything comes to he who waits.

2. We rely on the goodwill, and continued support of a small number of highly talented computer geniuses who's mysterious talents are a mystery to we mortals.

3. While many comments here are constructive, and have a purpose, might I suggest that those among us who find it hard to say anything positive, or that contribute towards the advancement of this amazing simulation keep those thought to themselves.

4. Buy the F86, or don't buy the F86, I am sure no one else here is worried whether or not you want it because you have a granny in the WRENS, or the particular field you plummet into is a paddy field, a crop or Louisiana's finest corn, or the latrine recently dug by the Georgian army private you just vaporised with a Mk-82 Air that the developers had the audacity to paint the wrong hue of olive green.

5. Stop annoying everyone with your I want it and I want it now drivel!

.......wow

Yes, WOW.....

What about a little respect for everyone´s opinion....?

It doesn´t hurt, really, try it...

Yes, WOW.....

 

What about a little respect for everyone´s opinion....?

It doesn´t hurt, really, try it...

I respect other people, and I value their opinions too. Mostly those people who actually do something positive instead of just bemoaning the fact that their toys don't all line up.

Is it fair to slate a product merely because it doesn't come with all the extras?

Please however, don't take the mangled corpses comment as in any way suggesting any of the posters here should be in any way harmed. I wouldn't want to think anyone read my post that way. It was just a reference to a British poem of remembrance for our war dead, who really do occupy forgotten corners of far flung fields. I personally find it hard hitting ANY field with my Mk82-Air's

Is it fair to slate a product merely because it doesn't come with all the extras?

Yes. It's all one's opinion. I don't see why a Korea map or Korea War anything is required to fly the F-86, especially considering that the Korean War was a tiny 3 year blip on the F-86's career. However that small strip of time is what most people think about when they consider the F-86. Some people want the history as much as, if not more than, the aircraft.

Having a historically accurate simulation also has some practical advantages. If you don't know how to set up a realistic theater of war, you can always just copy what happened in reality.

That said, flying the F-86 over Russia should not be immersion breaking in the slightest. That was always something that the plane was intended to do. It's something that most of the Western aircraft were intended to do and no one complains that F-15's are flying over Russia. Why? It's no different from F-86's over Krasnodar. No difference at all.

It's astonishing that some if you have chosen to respond to my moderately expressed and perfectly valid point of view with such pompous vitriol. And to accuse me of 'slating' the product is both inaccurate and a little infantile as I am doing no such thing. It has been ten, possibly even fifteen, years since ED has produced a new theater and it is not unreasonable to ask for one. Responding to my argument with such inappropriate, nerdy hostility is most unflattering to those of you who could not resist the urge to do so. NeilWillis, the length and tone of your responses here will prompt many reasonable people to question the state of your mental health, quite seriously. At the very least, you need to get some fresh air.

Neil: I don´t want to teach anybody here, I usually come to this forums to learn, your opinions are as good as everybody´s opinion.

But when you point your opinions as the truth, you are doing something wrong, because is your truth, not everyone´s...

Bahger as been doing some contructive things over here, I flown his missions, and I can tell you his been lovin´ this sim from long ago, at least his been spending a lot of time to make the others enjoy the sim....

Bahger: I agree with you, in a simulation for me, the context is important, but again is your opinion, as valid as any other opinion, no need to defend it with mentions to the health of anyone´s head.

And this is just my opinion , but maybe not my war....so I´m RTB

all I know is that I want that Sabre, and I plan to fly it down Casino row, and blast Circus Circus. They charged me for a double cocktail, and I was playing right in front of a slot machine. To quote my best Duke Nukem, "Those Casino B*st*rd's are gonna pay!!!!" :):thumbup::music_whistling:

A- Need wait to Eagle Dynamics new EDGE graphic engine complete the DCS: World integration (release on 1.3.0 DCS: W version), and the SDK will get access to the 3rd parties (RRG Studios partner work on new WW2 Normandy map, and no news of BSK partner will be that SDK.). Build a new map with the actual engine before EDGE will have complete has a loss of time (the old Afghanistan / Vladivostok and Spain testing map projects put on hold world them some time ago awaiting the new engine).

B- Yo-Yo (ED member) confirm on the Russian forum with a 3rd party has working on a Mig-15Bis add-on air-plane, but no official stamen or ETA time over them.

ED Stated on their Facebook that there will be an AI MIG-15 to fight against.

I'm not being intolerant here. I have bought many, many DCS products and have been deeply involved in A-10C from Beta, as both a user and mission designer. However, having owned DCS/ED products since Lock On, I have to ask: how long can they possibly expect us to put up with no new theaters? I am so tired of the ancient Russian/Georgian theater as used from Lock On onwards -- what's that, 12 years? -- and so baffled by the five-year delay in completing the Nevada map (originally offered as a free add-on for Beta purchasers of A-10C) that, in spite of my admiration for DCS's values and standards in high-fidelity simulation of combat aircraft, I have been on a long hiatus that is unlikely to end until they provide a new map. The F-86 fought in Korea, as you all know; it's just too much of an immersion-breaker for me to have to fly the sim over Russia.

 

I would imagine that the third-party developers of the F-86 must be frustrated by this, too. A good simulation of that aircraft and the conditions in which it was deployed ought to include a new theater map. I find the press release a bit disingenuous, I'm afraid, because although it notes that the Sabre was famous for fighting over Korea, it fails to mention that no Korea map will be available. This leads me to assume that we will have to operate this aircraft over the same desperately tired and in this case inauthentic terrain. I am not trying to sound irritable here, as DCS and its partners are the best, possibly the only, makers of high-fidelity combat aircraft sims for the PC but much as I want to dive into the Sabre, it's a no-buy for me until I get at least an ETA for new, appropriate and fresh theaters.

M8, I hear you and agree. Would love to see other Theater's as well. For the current maps, I think they do come close to the hilly Korea. Though I admit, I've never been there, and would respectfully defer to any service person who's served over there to comment.

I've always enjyoyed this flick, and would picture it as being the F-86 type of terrain. :pilotfly::thumbup:

(though he didn't fly the F-86, was cool nonetheless).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046806/

-Jav