Track-IR Stutter fix petition at Natural point's forum

Everyone,

if you have Track-IR stutter as described multiple times in this forum,

please have a look here and comment as well. They may do something if more

customers complain.

https://forums.naturalpoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=13991

Everyone,

 

 

if you have Track-IR stutter as described multiple times in this forum,

 

 

please have a look here and comment as well. They may do something if more

 

 

customers complain.

 

 

https://forums.naturalpoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=13991

@Bitmaster thanks for your kind effort and the help you're providing to DCS community, I owe you a good german beer!!;):thumbup::thumbup:

Guys, could you please upload a short video, with your issues?

I have often, fps drops, from 55 fps, to 22, 25, and this happen very fast, every 2, 3 minutes

I do have only 60 Hz, so I'm not sure we have the same issue

Thank you

hi,

the issue we're having is different, this is a video

fps are between 80-120, and nevertheless it stutters/jittery as hell when moving the head around

Mmm, looking at the video...what do you guys see that i don't see?

Just to throw in, I used to use TrackIR4 with a reflector, and later with DelanClip and it was always very jittery, twitching back and forth etc like a bad potentiometer. Recently, I gave the TrackIR4 to my dad and started using a TrackIR5. Interestingly, neither of us have the jitters now.

TLDR of my belief, the 5 is higher res than the 4 and due to my pit I was sitting too far from the camera. I am over 3ft, maybe pushing 4ft, from the camera, my dad is much closer, in the <24'' range. I think the issue, at least in my case, was sitting too far back for the resolution of the camera.

Just to throw in, I used to use TrackIR4 with a reflector, and later with DelanClip and it was always very jittery, twitching back and forth etc like a bad potentiometer. Recently, I gave the TrackIR4 to my dad and started using a TrackIR5. Interestingly, neither of us have the jitters now.

 

TLDR of my belief, the 5 is higher res than the 4 and due to my pit I was sitting too far from the camera. I am over 3ft, maybe pushing 4ft, from the camera, my dad is much closer, in the <24'' range. I think the issue, at least in my case, was sitting too far back for the resolution of the camera.

Tbh, this makes a lot of sense and matches my experience last night when i tried to find that stutter on my rig, which I "for my perception" do not have.

When I look perpendicular to the left or right and start moving my head in tiny bits there could be a thing you can call "micro stutter", but personally believe it is tied to the heads movement being to rough/chunky for the TiR resolution. My screen/Tir is ca. 120cm away from me/my headset.

I will pull the screen closer and give this a try, maybe 20cm make a difference.

It could be that dead simple and it would also explain why some with 8700k and Ti and Gigabytes of RAM have stutter...and others dont..it simply has NADA to do with HW but physical distance from the TiR parts to each other.

It also explains why this no only haunts DCS but all other games too and why no other driver can fix this, it's an "optical issue" software cannot solve.

Let's put this to a test guys.

edit: make this quick test, look perpendicular so you have your "stutter" and the PAUSE/FREEZE TiR so your head's movements are cancelled out.

Do you then still have stutter ? If not there is a big chance the reason above is true and all is fine once you pull it closer ;)

Tbh, this makes a lot of sense and matches my experience last night when i tried to find that stutter on my rig, which I "for my perception" do not have.

 

 

When I look perpendicular to the left or right and start moving my head in tiny bits there could be a thing you can call "micro stutter", but personally believe it is tied to the heads movement being to rough/chunky for the TiR resolution. My screen/Tir is ca. 120cm away from me/my headset.

 

 

I will pull the screen closer and give this a try, maybe 20cm make a difference.

 

 

It could be that dead simple and it would also explain why some with 8700k and Ti and Gigabytes of RAM have stutter...and others dont..it simply has NADA to do with HW but physical distance from the TiR parts to each other.

It also explains why this no only haunts DCS but all other games too and why no other driver can fix this, it's an "optical issue" software cannot solve.

 

 

Let's put this to a test guys.

 

 

edit: make this quick test, look perpendicular so you have your "stutter" and the PAUSE/FREEZE TiR so your head's movements are cancelled out.

Do you then still have stutter ? If not there is a big chance the reason above is true and all is fine once you pull it closer ;)

I am not running too far away from my screen, maybe i am about 40-50 cm, sensors are perfectly centered with the camera, no other lights poluttions.

If I pause the game, and I use keyboard to pan around, or a joystick hat, everything is smooth from 40 to 200 fps.

As soon as I un-pause trackir, and use my head to move left.right, the juttery is BACK.

This a good description of what I sense:

en you turn your head very quickly, there are no issues, the view snaps with no delay or stutter. When you turn your head slowly, there is a definite (though consistent) step-wise motion of the image, almost as if the TrackIR is being sampled at a very slow rate. "Notchy" is a good description - the image moves in discrete steps (like "click-click-click") that is seeming to skip frames. This occurs even in Precision mode.

Note that there is NO jerkiness at all if you keep your head still and just turn the aircraft - the image you see is incredibly smooth and lifelike. It is only panning with TrackIR that shows the issue. Panning with mouse or hat switch is also smooth as can be.

Tbh, this makes a lot of sense and matches my experience last night when i tried to find that stutter on my rig, which I "for my perception" do not have.

 

 

When I look perpendicular to the left or right and start moving my head in tiny bits there could be a thing you can call "micro stutter", but personally believe it is tied to the heads movement being to rough/chunky for the TiR resolution. My screen/Tir is ca. 120cm away from me/my headset.

 

 

I will pull the screen closer and give this a try, maybe 20cm make a difference.

 

 

It could be that dead simple and it would also explain why some with 8700k and Ti and Gigabytes of RAM have stutter...and others dont..it simply has NADA to do with HW but physical distance from the TiR parts to each other.

It also explains why this no only haunts DCS but all other games too and why no other driver can fix this, it's an "optical issue" software cannot solve.

 

 

Let's put this to a test guys.

 

 

edit: make this quick test, look perpendicular so you have your "stutter" and the PAUSE/FREEZE TiR so your head's movements are cancelled out.

Do you then still have stutter ? If not there is a big chance the reason above is true and all is fine once you pull it closer ;)

just an observation : you theory is missing a point : why the trackir is smooth at locked 60fps and is not at lets say 100 fps???

Moreover: which modeiles have you tested trackir?

I've never experienced this 'stepping' in any game. That does indeed sound like the sampling rate is off. Defective unit, perhaps? I'm sure you've all been through this a billion times, but have you tried the unit on a different PC and observed the same behavior. If so, I would lean toward a bad unit, if not then software/OS/ports etc. Hook it to a work PC or laptop, maybe

I have the same issue, driving me nuts..

my rig:

8700k, TrackIR 5, Asus PG279Q g-sync, GTX 1080, 32gb DDR4 ram.

I have tried using my friends TrackIR5 without any luck...

V-sync ON/OFF, G-sync ON/OFF doesn't make any difference...

Locking to 60FPS gets rid of the Tick-Tock motion, but intruduces a blur effect on my screen.. Works perfect on 120FPS and up, but it is really hard to keep DCS in that range.

Locking to 60FPS gets rid of the Tick-Tock motion, but intruduces a blur effect on my screen.. Works perfect on 120FPS and up, but it is really hard to keep DCS in that range.

This is exactly what I experience. I wonder if more people actually have this problem but they don't realize it. You can definitely tell the difference when you lock it at 60 fps. Much smoother tracking.

bandit648, let me ask you something, please, off topic :

Do you really see a difference between 60 Hz and 120 / 144 Hz?

Thank you

You see less/no screen tearing, and the image is a bit smoother when in motion. If you can drive appropriate FPS it makes it muuuuch smoother. I recently lined my brother out with a 1080p144 and my dad with a 1440p144. It makes a difference in 'quality' like FSAA does. Makes it prettier but you can live without it.

Ironically I'm the one running 60hz screens, cause I prioritised bezelless over other concerns. In hindsight probably a mistake, as I'm now stuck with three 'fair' monitors that were still moderately expensive.

Yes, it looks more fluid around 120fps, but that is not why I am complaining.

I have no problem in running 60hz instead of 120, the problem is that at least on my monitor 60hz looks really bad (doesn't look like "real" 60hz -Blurry,Strobbing effect). Plugged in my TV @60hz and the problem disappeared, but it gave me a really bad latency..

I have been trying to fix this problem for a really long time, tested everything from Drivers to different TrackIR unit, reinstalled windows etc etc.

What I have found is:

Locking FPS to 60 or 120 removes the Tick-Tock motion from TrackIR, but in my case using 60 introduces this other image artefacts.

bandit648, let me ask you something, please, off topic :

Do you really see a difference between 60 Hz and 120 / 144 Hz?

Thank you

Yes, 120/144hz produces much more fluid motion in games. The problem is that with games like DCS its impossible to maintain fps in the 120-144 range at 1440p. Forget about it at 4k.

I'm curious how other experience this trackir issue in other games. For me, its like this

DCS = trackir is smooth with 60 fps lock

AF FS2 = trackir is a jittery mess at any framerate.

X-Plane 11 = similar fluctuating fps as DCS, but trackir is smooth as butter

I'm curious how other experience this trackir issue in other games. For me, its like this

 

DCS = trackir is smooth with 60 fps lock

AF FS2 = trackir is a jittery mess at any framerate.

X-Plane 11 = similar fluctuating fps as DCS, but trackir is smooth as butter

I've tried only IL2 and ARMA3 with trackir and it's the same as with DCS: i am force to cap fps at 60fps.

Now in my case with the new rig I've built switchin from the I7 7700K to the 8700k , even at 60fps I have some random stuttering despite the fps are locked at 60 fps.

Which drives me even more crazy because it should stutter at 60fps,....

I have no issues with Trackir 5

I disabled the mirrors, reduced the clouds, from 7 / 8 to 5, and everything runs okay, no more fps drops

I'll keep testing, of course.

Could you guys, please, upload your Trackir profiles??

uploading trackir profiles is useless because the profiles are generated basis on your distance from the monitor etc etc, i basically use smooth profile with some appriate curves for yaw and pitch,

it is not a matter of TIR profile, rather a NON compatibility with G-SYNC monitors.

Everyone,

 

 

if you have Track-IR stutter as described multiple times in this forum,

 

 

please have a look here and comment as well. They may do something if more

 

 

customers complain.

 

 

https://forums.naturalpoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=13991

Maybe some trackir units are faulty and they only run at 60 fps whch would explain why some of us are having "stuttering" if above >60 fps?

@bitmaster : please mate , use your msi afterburner and let us know how many fps it shows within the trackir sofware?

Mine says : 60 FPS OPENGL Render

Friends,

just do a simple experiment, where the error is stuttering manifest itself the most. Turn off g-sync/v-sync or fast-sync. Set lock framerate in the game to 60fps and leave the monitor Afterburner for the OSD value graph.

The surprise is instead of 60fps you get 62fps which is the first fault. You will see clearly the fluctuations in frames -3 calmly +3 fps completely unreasonable. The problem occurred from the N44 alpha and unfortunately it is here to this day.

In such an extreme is not an effective nor G-sync crutch. So unnatural acts only DCS world, no other game is as brutal fluctuations in the framerate.

Lock fps:

path: C:\Users\xxxx\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\autoexec.cfg

edit and add a line...

options.graphics.maxfps = 60

I use makeshift solution, where I can partially eliminate the stuttering, more precise management of locked fps, and I get much smoother looking in the cockpit.

In the Nvidia Profile Inspector in the tab for the Digital Combat Simulator: Black Shark

Frame Rate Limiter – 60fps

Frame Rate Limiter Mode – Limiter V2

Maybe some trackir units are faulty and they only run at 60 fps whch would explain why some of us are having "stuttering" if above >60 fps?

 

@bitmaster : please mate , use your msi afterburner and let us know how many fps it shows within the trackir sofware?

 

Mine says : 60 FPS OPENGL Render

mine jumps from 60 to 61. 63 68 and back to 60 and all over again, it's not super-stable 60 but 60ish, sometimes it says 53 too..LoL

I use makeshift solution, where I can partially eliminate the stuttering, more precise management of locked fps, and I get much smoother looking in the cockpit.

In the Nvidia Profile Inspector in the tab for the Digital Combat Simulator: Black Shark

 

Frame Rate Limiter – 60fps

Frame Rate Limiter Mode – Limiter V2

THIS is a great tip. I was locking via graphics.lua and was seeing fps fluctuate from 58-61. Adding the lock via the NVInspector as you described works very well. Thank you.

THIS is a great tip. I was locking via graphics.lua and was seeing fps fluctuate from 58-61. Adding the lock via the NVInspector as you described works very well. Thank you.

you can also use MSI rivatuner to lockfps at 60 which is what I''ve done since long time.

according to blurbuster (a specialized gsync forum) nvidia inspector frame limiter introduce some lag which is better managed by msi riva tuner.

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/