Obligatory A-8 Dog Fight Speculation Thread

true that, butthurt now:lol::thumbup:

 

 

in generall i do believe that peops can post their concerns if they wish so, nailing them as idiots doesnt make anyone a superior alien.

 

 

im not implying u guys did so, its just some generell observation of the fanboys either side.

 

 

See u on the battlefield :)

 

 

S!

Edited May 18, 2019 by rogonaut

Antons never had MW50, either C3 injection (Jabos) or Ladedruckerhöhung (Jäger).

 

realy i think that fw190 a8 used c3 injection for WEP

and MW50 was tested but there was somee kind of problem with cracks in header

you got thisn in fw190 a8 description in ED shop with c3 injection 1980ps was developed fro engine.

2000hp i think it will be great plane

A-8 did not use C3 injection.

A-8 had "erhöhter Notleistung" and that was something like supercharger boost regulator "by-pass", it allowed to increase MP from 1,42/1,42 to 1,58/1,65 ATA.

 

C3 injection was used only for F/G attack models up to 1000m altitude.

C3 injection was used only for F/G attack models up to 1000m altitude.

 

But aren't we getting the F-8 too? Or have I misunderstood something?

Yes we are going to get F-8 too, according to newsletter and other entries here from ED staff.

Well, it's the variant that should be in DCS in the first place, considering the '44 setting.

 

Agreed. Doesn't change the fact that it will turn similarly to the dora if not worse, and be as slow as the Mk IX.

A-8 did not use C3 injection.

A-8 had "erhöhter Notleistung" and that was something like supercharger boost regulator "by-pass", it allowed to increase MP from 1,42/1,42 to 1,58/1,65 ATA.

 

C3 injection was used only for F/G attack models up to 1000m altitude.

I know you are very knowledgeable, but here is what Wikipedia says: "Changes introduced in the Fw 190 A-8 also included the C3-injection Erhöhte Notleistung emergency boost system to the fighter variant of the Fw 190 A".

Also the DCS weekly newsletter says "The engine also received the C3 injection system that provided an emergency boost of 1,980 PS in short durations."

I know what is written in the last newsletter, but i still think it is connected with info about F-8 model, like armor around engine. The A-8 "standard" fighter was without it, it was one of several modificatinos for "attack" models, F/G not for A, may be with exception for A-8/R2.

 

My opinion is based on this:

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/4xGHj3g.png[/img]

Keine C3 Einspritzung! is written in original German document for "Jager" model - Fighter A-8.

Saburo is right. C3 injection only for jabos!

 

 

I can recommend the book from Dietmar Hermann:

Focke-Wulf Fw 190 F und G: vom schnellen Jäger zum Jagdbomber und Schlachtflugzeug Entwicklung, Produktion und Einsatz

I'm not sure it says the same for everything. I mean, the way it's written,

 

"1.65 in second charger gear

________________No C3 injection!"

 

apparently means the same as above, no C3 in 1.65 MP. Maybe that?

 

 

S!

Doesn't the A8 have an even higher wing loading than the D9, along with a bit more weight when combat loaded? Based on other sims that have put in varying amounts of work into their FMs, the A8 is no "dogfighter", not in terms of being a good angles/rate/radius fighter, not IMO. The gun package is pretty great though, 4 MG151s with lots of ammunition, 500 rnds in the inboard wing guns and IIRC it's 280 in the outboard ones (they aren't the crappy MG FF guns that are in the A5/etc model either, but MG151 as well). That plus a very large 13mm nose MG loadout (can't remember the rounds with these) - fantastic guns package for busting bombers and larger fighter/bombers.

 

 

 

Interesting points about the boost/c3 here - am I understanding correctly that the A8 standard fighter model had no boost or "war emergency power" analogue at all? So no magic "turbo" switch for an instant increase in power/acceleration/speed, not like the Mw50 or WEP in the Western fighters?

 

 

Getting wrapped up into turn fights probably won't be a good idea with the DCS A8. Still, it'll be my favorite WW2 fighter in DCS until the P47 comes along someday...

Edited May 18, 2019 by Gman109

Increased power for F/G-8 variants was reached by injection C3 fuel into supercharger inlet and re-set boost control.

But for A-8 variant was used completely different way how to increase power

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/N0qTwlL.png[/img]

If i understand correctly, it was done without re-set boost control!

 

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/dT2M45Z.png[/img]

 

here is link for whole manual, i think it is quite usefull

http://www.qattara.it/Documents/fw190a8.pdf

Great, thanks for this Saburo. I was just going through my Osprey collection of military books (I have them all in pdf) and the 190 books in that series. I'll read through the above today, thanks again.

so summarising all of it F-8 caould run 1.65 ATA and A-8 could run 1.56 at low alt

at high both could run 1.65

similar case with D-9 which is allowed to run lower ATA at 1st supercharger stage

Looks like this limit for A-8 was only becouse A-8 didnt realy needed it while F-8 could use increased T/O power for heavy loads

this engine had to run so rich that after couple of minutes spark plug fouling had to be enormous :P

Edited May 18, 2019 by grafspee

so, the question is what are we going to get here? A Fw 190 A-8 Fighter with let´s say "unique" specification, or a Fw 190 F-8 Jabo? Both of them in clean configuration would be wishful thinking :music_whistling:

so, the question is what are we going to get here? A Fw 190 A-8 Fighter with let´s say "unique" specification, or a Fw 190 F-8 Jabo? Both of them in clean configuration would be wishful thinking :music_whistling:

 

maby both :)

at high both could run 1.65

What is not understandable in sentence below?

 

Usage of increased emergency power (is) prohibited in second charger gear.

Edited May 18, 2019 by saburo_cz

so, the question is what are we going to get here? A Fw 190 A-8 Fighter with let´s say "unique" specification, or a Fw 190 F-8 Jabo? Both of them in clean configuration would be wishful thinking :music_whistling:

At first they thought A-8 but while researching and due to forum comments on how close they are they changed their minds to make both of them. We get first A-8, then F-8 later, or that's my understanding.

 

 

S!

What is not understandable in sentence below?

 

Usage of increased emergency power (is) prohibited in second charger gear.

That chart says G-8 (I guess that includes F-8 ), is it the same for A-8?

 

 

S!

saburo make up your mind finaly first you linked article which state that A-8 can run 1.65 at high alt now you telling me that it cant

acroding to this F-8 and G-8 is the same in boost terms

so what i read out of it is that c3 injection was used to hit 1.65 ata at low alt for F/G-8

But A-8 could run 1.56 ATA without c3 injection and 1.65 ATA whith out c3 incjetion too at for low and high alt

i assume this increased boost from 1.42 to 1.56/1.65 was allowed by use of 100octane fuel

aditional to this c3 injection allowed 1.65 ATA for take off power for F/G-8 versions

So f-8 at 1.65 t/o power with c3 engaged had to smoke crazy :P

Edited May 18, 2019 by grafspee

one more time, may be, at least some will... hopefully

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/HcBbwrD.jpg[/img]

 

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/NvXeM4k.jpg[/img]

 

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/M9cCdlB.jpg[/img]

one more time, may be, at least some will... hopefully

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/HcBbwrD.jpg[/img]

 

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/NvXeM4k.jpg[/img]

 

%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A//i.imgur.com/M9cCdlB.jpg[/img]

 

Again A-8 can run 1.65 ATA acording to what you just posted i dont realy know ahat are you trying to say here :P

i alredy agree that A-8 dont have c3 injection but as i see it c3 injection was used to lift ATA for t/o power from 1.56 to 1.65 for G/F-8 versions

and 1.42 to 1.56 LOW and 1.65HIGH boost was allowed by use better fuel i assume

Edited May 18, 2019 by grafspee

Saburo was reacting to "both could run 1.65 at high alt" which seems to be wrong. Only A8 Fighter variant could

 

A8 fighter variant, which has no C3 injection, could be boosted up to 1.56 ATA while in first supercharger stage (low alt) and up to 1.65 ATA while in second supercharger stage (high alt)

F8 (& G8 ) Jabo/Attack variants were having C3 injection, allowing them to boost up to 1.65 ATA in first supercharger stage, but this boost was prohibited at second supercharger stage. Which means if I'm not mistaken, without boost, F8/G8 were limited to 1.42 ATA at higher alt/second supercharger stage.

 

If I refer to my (rather pitiful) knowledge of these engines, the nominal power was usually 1.15ATA, combat 1.35, and some of "them" (ie, these kind of Daimler & BMW engines in use in 190s and 109s) were rated to higher pressures for a specific "emergency" regime.The emergency regime for A8 family is 1.42 ATA. it could be boosted to values listed above, but not for F/G8 at second supercharger stage.

 

At least that's what I undestand of Saburo's docs.

Saburo was reacting to "both could run 1.65 at high alt" which seems to be wrong. Only A8 Fighter variant could

 

A8 fighter variant, which has no C3 injection, could be boosted up to 1.56 ATA while in first supercharger stage (low alt) and up to 1.65 ATA while in second supercharger stage (high alt)

F8 (& G8 ) Jabo/Attack variants were having C3 injection, allowing them to boost up to 1.65 ATA in first supercharger stage, but this boost was prohibited at second supercharger stage. Which means if I'm not mistaken, without boost, F8/G8 were limited to 1.42 ATA at higher alt/second supercharger stage.

 

If I refer to my (rather pitiful) knowledge of these engines, the nominal power was usually 1.15ATA, combat 1.35, and some of "them" (ie, these kind of Daimler & BMW engines in use in 190s and 109s) were rated to higher pressures for a specific "emergency" regime.The emergency regime for A8 family is 1.42 ATA. it could be boosted to values listed above, but not for F/G8 at second supercharger stage.

 

At least that's what I undestand of Saburo's docs.

 

maby its the case