The enjoyable things of Early Access Modules.

Many players playing DCS with F/A-18C Hornet and F-16C Viper. They are now early access status. so some bugs and not completed all of them ordnance, advanced avionics system as you know.

I saw many unhappy thread about that early access modules in forum. of course they are right. Hornet is not complete yet during past long time, and Viper is very young. many players wait updates for them but update speed is so slow. it is right too. it is real.

But, Development for something is very hard(I am mission maker for DCS with Only Lua Script) especially this hi-tech 4th Gen Multi-Role Fighter. always ED saying "we are work in really hard" it is true. they are work so hard(Many Thanks)

My mean is we need wait for perfectly complete product. it is win-win to all. Dev and Users.

So I think how to write thread for share my play style someone who want find enjoyable things with early access module.

Combat Flight(include using weapons) is must next of basic piloting. example, Learn about Aviation Dynamics, Understanding Aircraft Systems, Ground Procedure(I want realistic ATC), Take Off Procedures(Normal, Combat, Formation), Re-Join Procedure(Local Procedure), Formation Flight Skills, Tactical Turn, AAR Procedure and Recovery or Landing Procedure, Emergency Procedure(how to come back home in multiple failure? You can?)

My squadron do this with F-5E-3 prior of early access release hornet. past years we did this basics with Hornet. No firing weapons. it is so funny only about Basics. Hornet have great flight model and internal system modeling.

I think the perfect basics is very important than MAV, JDAM, JSOW, TGP, TWS as like not yet completed. I just annoying when Hornet have bugs with in basics. not ordnance or combat avionics. it is not important to combat flight. it is just next step after perfectly basics. DCS is only one great simulation about learn real flight with fighter.

Learn basics during wait update. give the time to dev teams. learn first about aircraft systems(ELEC, HYD, ENG, etc). learn about local procedure(You can find many document in internet). learn about how to fly(basic flight maneuvers, might be you can not execute clover-leaf in perfectly. exercise and exercise more in perfect it is funny).

DCS is great sim for that. learn about fly before using hi-tech weapons. Basics, it is so fun.

and Thank You ED. If not DCS exist, maybe I am not happy in my life.

나의 SM-G930S 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

Early Access is neither good or bad. In my opinion the problem comes from how they handle it more than anything else.

... DCS is great sim for that. learn about fly before using hi-tech weapons. Basics, it is so fun.

That's not for everyone .. those for which DCS is just a game, want the best weapons and sensors to be able to win their airquake sessions, every little advantage counts ...

Only those for which DCS is one of the best aircraft and helo simulators will share your views ... not sure is it is a majority or a minority :(

i don't get the point of this post. one major concern with EDs EA releases is indeed, that some basics are still missing.

even the hornet does not seem to be feature complete in the basic avionics/fcs department.

if it was just for some advanced weaponry that was missing in EA, i think less people would have a problem with prolonged EA periods.

that said, after a big dissapointment with the yak-52, i've come to peace with early access and will simply do my research and wait until i deem a product fit for purchase. i do however still think that the current "Very Early Access" trend is bad business practice, because it could weaken the brand and can be disruptive to the competitive mp environment (both things don't affect me directly though).

Some things are still missing, some minor, some rather important. Some things clearly take longer than most would like them to. Sometimes things seem to take a step backwards, which is frustrating. It's all true.

It's also true that the number of actually 'complete' modules is rather small, including some comparably old modules still missing features that were originally promised.

But despite it all, I can get behind the OPs sentiment. Once in a while it's just good to try and be a bit positive.

It is what it is. I deal with it the best I can.

I'm more annoyed with the whining than the waiting.

Cheering developers while they release more and more incompete products does also NOT help.

F16 EA was a joke.

When ED takes my money I have the right to tell them what is not ok in my perspective.

Next EA is hopefully better planned.

Thats my perspective.

Cheering developers while they release more and more incompete products does also NOT help.

F16 EA was a joke.

When ED takes my money I have the right to tell them what is not ok in my perspective.

Next EA is hopefully better planned.

 

Thats my perspective.

Why bother taking part in the development of early access modules if it bothers you so much? Just wait for the final product. You gave ED your money with the understanding you were basically going to be a tester on a unfinished product, with missing features, that will possibly have a long & unpredictable development process.

Not just this game/sim, but it amazes me how many people don't seem to understand what they are getting into when they choose to buy early access products.

I can only imaging the chorus of heads banging on table noises that must come from the various developers around the world when they read their forums.

I personally think early access is a great idea....if you understand what it entails.

Early Access is an option for you to play this module in an early state, but it will be incomplete with bugs. The time a product remains in Early Access can vary widely based on the scope of the project, technical hurdles, and how complete the module is when it enters Early Access.[/Quote]

I do not play early access modules, just finished ones. To be true neither all the so called finished modules are really finished (uh-1h muticrew for example) but when a module Is declared finished at least you know you can't expect anything more, and you choose if to buy It or not. Maybe we'll have huey multicrew one day, but it's released, I've bought it and so I've decided to be ok even without multicrew. And all of this is because I know what early access is and I do not want to be a beta tester but just enjoy virtual flight. Nevertheless, I always ask myself why the majority of people in dcs plays open beta and not stable version, and so you are forced to use open beta if you want to join that specific server online, for example. Maybe it's because the majority of people here forgets what early access means, just to suddently remember It when they have to complain.

I look at early access the way I looked at real airplanes.

It is what it is. When flying a real airplane you deal with the circumstances you have, not with what you would like them to be.

The money given to ED is to keep them around producing the simulator. Eventually, they are going to have change the pricing structure if they hope to survive long term. Software that you pay for once cannot be supported forever. Nobody does that pricing model now.

Personally, I would prefer a subscription model. I would gladly give $15-20 per month for access to DCS.

Please do not deal with subscriptions!

(I agree with you, but it's something that Is forbidden to speak...)

Many players playing DCS with F/A-18C Hornet and F-16C Viper. They are now early access status. so some bugs and not completed all of them ordnance, advanced avionics system as you know.

 

I saw many unhappy thread about that early access modules in forum. of course they are right. Hornet is not complete yet during past long time, and Viper is very young. many players wait updates for them but update speed is so slow. it is right too. it is real.

 

But, Development for something is very hard(I am mission maker for DCS with Only Lua Script) especially this hi-tech 4th Gen Multi-Role Fighter. always ED saying "we are work in really hard" it is true. they are work so hard(Many Thanks)

 

My mean is we need wait for perfectly complete product. it is win-win to all. Dev and Users.

 

So I think how to write thread for share my play style someone who want find enjoyable things with early access module.

 

Combat Flight(include using weapons) is must next of basic piloting. example, Learn about Aviation Dynamics, Understanding Aircraft Systems, Ground Procedure(I want realistic ATC), Take Off Procedures(Normal, Combat, Formation), Re-Join Procedure(Local Procedure), Formation Flight Skills, Tactical Turn, AAR Procedure and Recovery or Landing Procedure, Emergency Procedure(how to come back home in multiple failure? You can?)

 

My squadron do this with F-5E-3 prior of early access release hornet. past years we did this basics with Hornet. No firing weapons. it is so funny only about Basics. Hornet have great flight model and internal system modeling.

 

I think the perfect basics is very important than MAV, JDAM, JSOW, TGP, TWS as like not yet completed. I just annoying when Hornet have bugs with in basics. not ordnance or combat avionics. it is not important to combat flight. it is just next step after perfectly basics. DCS is only one great simulation about learn real flight with fighter.

 

Learn basics during wait update. give the time to dev teams. learn first about aircraft systems(ELEC, HYD, ENG, etc). learn about local procedure(You can find many document in internet). learn about how to fly(basic flight maneuvers, might be you can not execute clover-leaf in perfectly. exercise and exercise more in perfect it is funny).

 

DCS is great sim for that. learn about fly before using hi-tech weapons. Basics, it is so fun.

 

and Thank You ED. If not DCS exist, maybe I am not happy in my life.

 

나의 SM-G930S 의 Tapatalk에서 보냄

May I use your quote " If not DCS exist, maybe I am not happy in my life." in my signature block?

I personally think early access is a great idea....if you understand what it entails.

I think ED should define what Early Access is or , at least , define in what "completeness" the current module will be available.

If you take the example of the F16 Wags stated this :

This will be a massive project, so we will separate it into two phases: Phase 1 Early Access release and then Phase 2 Product Sustainment.

 

Phase 1 Early Access:

Color Multifunction Display (CMFD) symbology, Horizontal Situation Display (HSD) format, and Head-up Display (HUD) symbology

Digitally TACAN and Electronic Horizontal Situation Indicator (EHSI)

RWS, SAM, and ACM A/A radar modes

BDU-33, BDU-50LD/HD, Mk-82LDGP, Mk-82AIR, Mk-84LDGP, CBU-87 CEM, and CBU-97 SFW unguided bombs

2.75” rockets LAU-68 and LAU-131

Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS)

AIM-9L/M/P/X Sidewinder

AIM-120B/C AMRAAM

M61A1 20mm cannon

For me , and not only me I guess , this means a pretty much complete module regarding Navigation system and basic Weapons avionics.

What we got is pretty much a place holder in many aspects , even very basic ones like external model ,damage model , nav lights , almost all DED and ICP pages.

I wish I understood in what state the module was on release and wait for a more complete experience instead.

I recall less complains when the F18 was released because it was in much complete state.

I look at early access the way I looked at real airplanes.

 

It is what it is. When flying a real airplane you deal with the circumstances you have, not with what you would like them to be.

Absolutely this. :thumbup:

It's almost like being a test pilot (which is one aspect of the things I personally enjoy during early access), and over time things improve - patch after patch.

Why bother taking part in the development of early access modules if it bothers you so much? Just wait for the final product. You gave ED your money with the understanding you were basically going to be a tester on a unfinished product, with missing features, that will possibly have a long & unpredictable development process.

 

Not just this game/sim, but it amazes me how many people don't seem to understand what they are getting into when they choose to buy early access products.

 

I can only imaging the chorus of heads banging on table noises that must come from the various developers around the world when they read their forums.

 

I personally think early access is a great idea....if you understand what it entails.

This sums it right up. I totally agree. :thumbup:

And - as to what it entails - it would really behoove ED to have a quiz (just a few important questions) to unlock access to purchase EA product. This quiz could ask simple questions whether the user is ready/able/willing to deal with what early access means. If any question is answered "no", ED should then recommend to wait for the final release of the complete product down the line. If the questions were answered all "yes", and access to purchase an EA module was granted, then at least the onus lies on the user having gained access to the EA product, and not on ED providing an early access module.

Have to say that I really don't see the big deal with EA releases.

The Hornet demonstrated EDs view on this and came with very very little.

We had no guided A2G weapons, no targeting pod, no IFF etc etc.

It was quite obvious that the F16 would be similar.

Whilst ED under-delivered on some aspects (e.g. damage model), they over-delivered in others (targeting pod).

Doesn't bother me as I still get to fly what is a great looking aircraft, and as I did with the F18, learn new systems as they're added, in a gradual manner, as against attempting to do it in one go.

People should be more grateful that ED are basically the ONLY developer out there delivering anything like this level of complexity.

Why bother taking part in the development of early access modules if it bothers you so much? Just wait for the final product.

Go check out the DCS modules page. Almost everything that draws new people to DCS is in Early Access, a few have been EA for literally years now and there’s no clear timeframe to release status for any of them.

Viper, Tomcat, Hornet, Harrier, Viggen

Fw-190, I-16, MiG-19, Yak-52, Christian Eagle, even the “WWII Assets Pack”.

Ok, so now you’re pretty far down the DCS products list. Check the forums for the completed modules. With many of them you’re still dealing with major missing features and long standing bugs, slow or no response from developers, lingering lighting issues from the 1.5 to 2 transition (which began over four years ago), VR scaling and texture issues, etc. etc. A few should never have been moved from EA status to begin with. (I personally view the move from EA to Release as more of a module’s slow death sentence than something to be happy about.) And let’s not even mention Combined Arms.

If you want to participate in anything “released” by ED in the last three years it’s going to be in EA. I’d even consider DCS as a whole as primarily an EA product.

The “just wait for the final product” argument doesn’t really hold up anymore.

Great point and way of looking at it.

Go check out the DCS modules page. Almost everything that draws new people to DCS is in Early Access, a few have been EA for literally years now and there’s no clear timeframe to release status for any of them.

Viper, Tomcat, Hornet, Harrier, Viggen

Fw-190, I-16, MiG-19, Yak-52, Christian Eagle, even the “WWII Assets Pack”.

Ok, so now you’re pretty far down the DCS products list. Check the forums for the completed modules. With many of them you’re still dealing with major missing features and long standing bugs, slow or no response from developers, lingering lighting issues from the 1.5 to 2 transition (which began over four years ago), VR scaling and texture issues, etc. etc. A few should never have been moved from EA status to begin with. (I personally view the move from EA to Release as more of a module’s slow death sentence than something to be happy about.) And let’s not even mention Combined Arms.

If you want to participate in anything “released” by ED in the last three years it’s going to be in EA. I’d even consider DCS as a whole as primarily an EA product.

The “just wait for the final product” argument doesn’t really hold up anymore.

Very well said. One can get the feeling that each module only shortly blossoms right before official "release", only to then slowly decay...

This is obviously an exaggeration on my part, but if you've come to DCS for the high fidelity of modules, coherence and general quality (compared to other aviation sims!), things have really gone downhill after version 1.5.

To be clear, the sim in general has gotten better with each iteration, but you really have to cherry pick which module to buy at what time in development, if you don't want to deal with early access bugs or lack-of-maintanance decay.

even the “WWII Assets Pack”.

WW2 Assets Pack never was released on EA, has only a list of 3D models centred on WW2 and not finite, that list has raising outside of the original "planned" list and expected continue move to raise them (can be hundred).

And let’s not even mention Combined Arms.

What missing here?, and no, CA has never planned to have a "tank simulator" or similar, that module was a profesional JTAC desktop trainer, convert to use on "entertainmet" market.

[...]

Well, while you are right probably, those points are unimportant specifics.Try to understand the general argument of the other person, before you disagree on details.

The general idea of SonofEils post was, that it's difficult to avoid Early Acess in DCS or that it is at least difficult to avoid the perceived disadvantages the EA focused development strategy brings.

Try to argue against that!:smilewink:

WW2 Assets Pack never was released on EA...

According to the DCS Shop the Assets Pack is EA.

What missing here?, and no, CA has never planned to have a "tank simulator" or similar, that module was a profesional JTAC desktop trainer, convert to use on "entertainmet" market.

Play DCS: Combined Arms as a real time strategy game, a first person armor warfare game, or direct the ground battle from the cockpit of a DCS aircraft like the A-10C Warthog, Ka-50 Black Shark, or P-51D Mustang.

...is how it’s described by ED.

Listen, I’m not bitching here. I’m just saying that I 100% understand people’s frustrations and that to use the “if you don’t like EA don’t use it” argument increasingly limits people’s DCS options.

I agree with SonofEil. The argument to wait for the final product is a little thin if you look at the store page.

I understand that ED is a company and needs to make money.

From a consumer's point of view, things look a bit different. Which non-early access product should I have bought in recent years?

The last module I bought was the F18. From a retrospective point of view, that was a mistake, because normally I would like to read the (full) manual first and then try out all training missions and then immerse myself in a campaign. Yes, I'm just such a nerd who likes finished products. In my opinion, this is the "game aspect" of DCS.

That's why it irritates me when it is then announced that employees will be deducted from the F18 to bring out the F16 in the early access. Now many buyers of the F18 are dissatisfied as well as the buyers of the F16. This does not even have a damage model for simple dogfights. And now the aircraft carrier is to come in EA, with features that eventually come in the course of time.

I think the argument "buy it when it's done and don´t buy in early access if you don´t want it" can not really be what ED really wants. There would be simply too few buyers the last years.

Cheering developers while they release more and more incompete products does also NOT help.

F16 EA was a joke.

When ED takes my money I have the right to tell them what is not ok in my perspective.

Next EA is hopefully better planned.

 

Thats my perspective.

What's a ''joke'' is people with this mentality. It is nobody's problem but yours if you have poor impulse control. Don't. Buy. EA. Problem solved. ''EA product no worky''. No shit. Really?! Really surprising.