Fssb r3

Any real viper drivers or SME's out there who can speak with experience about the realsimulator fssbr3 ligting stick. Even dudes with real viper ground sim time.

Does it's input and response correlate well with the DCS viper in sim vs irl.

I am fighting hard the urge of paying 499 euros for this item but would appreciate some feedback thats relevant to viper flying only.

For context, I currently use TMWH as a sidestick with a firmer aftermarket spring. I have some curves set up in the DCS controllers menu that allow me to create something approximate to the force response input. Thus I get full control inputs off about 3/4inch stick deflection. I have to "roll play" a little to simulate genuine viper controls. Twitchy but the best at the moment.

In advance, thank you.

Close but not quite, the real stick moves ever so slightly, where as the FSSB doesn't move at all. I do like it regardless, money well spent, definitely getting my money out of it flying the viper. I do like the fact that the FSSB R3 Lighting is stand-alone, you don't need to take apart your Warthog to use it, unless you want to use Target. So I have the TMWH stick base center mounted for Hawg and Hornet, and the FSSB is side mounted for the Viper.

I have the r3 lighting, prior to that I had the r2 for the cougar. I however can not fly other aircraft with it, need a movable stick for the Hornet and Hawg, etc.

If the amount is discouraging, then perhaps it isn't for you. However go check out the controllers section of the forums, there are many more users who have it, but may not frequent the Viper controller section.

I will say that is well built and RealSimulator team does stand behind their products.

Very helpful. Thank you.

The price is not totally restrictive. But I certainly want to feel as though FSSB R3 lighting enhances the viper experience.

As described, I've been a little clever with the TMWH to get an approximation, but it still feels clumsy and disconnected.

What I'm trying to establish is if the FSSB gives that

"Wooo yeah now that feels more like a viper" (precise and snappy?) as opposed to

"Yep I'm flying a viper with a short A10 sidestick"

Cheers

You should feel that with the FSSB, I know I do but each person is going to feel a little different.

Thanks buddy.

If you're getting it just for the Viper-Mirage-F-15C it's worth it. The F-15C doesn't have a force sensing side stick obviously but it loves the FSSB3L in DCS. The Mirage stick moves but the jet is a true FBW like the Viper and the FSSB3L works beautifully in it as well.

As Panther said the real stick moves an 1/8 - 1/4" but it is pressure sensitive regardless. While the FSSB3L doesn't move, it does bend. If you look at the stick in the jet while moving the FSSB3L you'll see the stick in the jet is moving almost identically. If you're a Viper person it's worth it. But, also as Panther said it doesn't play well with aircraft that have a lot of deflection. I was able to dial in the Hornet when I first got it but it was tough. It hasn't mattered since the release of the Viper...

If you get FSSB3L for the Warthog, make sure you get Debolestis Shapeways Castle DMS switch cap.

Thanks. If purchased (almost definitely yes now) it will be F16 only.

Are you able to offer how it (FSSB) translates a rapid series of inputs, say like a quick flick onto a wingtip and then immediate application of back stick pressure? Is it precise? Can further small roll and pull inputs be applied without wild oscillation occurring. (Part of that is dependent on skill and ability lol)

I understand that its going to be more about small pressures on a non-moving (bending) stick, but how easy/natural do the inputs feel to apply. A learning curve compared to my current side mounted TMWH frankenstick no doubt.

I have a seperate centre mounted TMWH with extension, aftermarket spring and hornet stick. This set up feels natural responsive and precise with the Hornet. Can you say the same of the FSSB and Viper?

Bit wordy. Sorry and thanks in advance.

Out of curiosity, why do you guys find the R3 to be good for the mirage, f-15 but not for the f/a-18 or other FBW jets? The FFB mechanism just not work well for certain modules?

Thanks. If purchased (almost definitely yes now) it will be F16 only.

 

Are you able to offer how it (FSSB) translates a rapid series of inputs, say like a quick flick onto a wingtip and then immediate application of back stick pressure? Is it precise? Can further small roll and pull inputs be applied without wild oscillation occurring. (Part of that is dependent on skill and ability lol)

 

I understand that its going to be more about small pressures on a non-moving (bending) stick, but how easy/natural do the inputs feel to apply. A learning curve compared to my current side mounted TMWH frankenstick no doubt.

 

I have a seperate centre mounted TMWH with extension, aftermarket spring and hornet stick. This set up feels natural responsive and precise with the Hornet. Can you say the same of the FSSB and Viper?

 

Bit wordy. Sorry and thanks in advance.

To your first question; The FSSB3L in the Viper does EXACTLY what you want it to do as fast as you can apply the pressure. There are several settings specific to it that help. You will probably need to tune it back at first. BFA is a settings that sets how much pressure it takes to break the stick free of center and begin moving the surfaces. I keep roll at High and pitch at Full with Full taking the most force to break free. I want to roll as fast as possible but only when I command it. If you have this setting too light you can breath on it and it will roll. With pitch, I want 5 or 6 pounds of pressure per G at least. This keeps me from over G'ing the jet when things get exciting lol IE, in the merge. FSC or Full scale control sets how much deflection travel you have in the stick. 4:4 is the full deflection which I use. Another way to explain it is the travel DCS registers when you move the stick. It's like adjusting the X saturation under control settings/Axis Tune.

Roll sensibility is the weight it takes to roll the jet which I keep much lighter than pitch. The NASA roll and pitch settings allow you to make it harder to pitch down than it is to pitch up and vice versa and it works the same on roll. I set my pitch down to be harder to do than pitch up (negative G's SUCK). Likewise I keep roll right easier than roll left because I have more strength moving the stick left than I do right.

To the second question, it took me about 3 days to get accustomed to it when I first got it. The 16 wasn't released yet so I was using it on the 18 which is more difficult to dial in. This is not because of the stick per se but because the 18 has more of a tendency to oscillate. When you get it you will have a tendency to overcompensate because you're used to a moving stick. I was afraid I was going to rip it off my mount lol. It's the most natural thing in the world now that I'm trained to it. I'm able to make tiny corrections with a slight amount of pressure and I'm also able to make violent maneuvers as well. What I've found is I put pressure on the stick with the lower part of my hand (lower palm) for minute changes and the upper part of my hand (top three fingers and thumb) for heavier movements. My hand never changes position, only the part of it I'm using to apply pressure.

Finally, it is more accurate than any other stick I've used in 25 years and that is what takes time to get accustomed to.

Out of curiosity, why do you guys find the R3 to be good for the mirage, f-15 but not for the f/a-18 or other FBW jets? The FFB mechanism just not work well for certain modules?

*Edit*

For jets like the Viper and Mirage, the FBW systems take away any oscillations you would get with other aircraft. You don't have to compensate for them with the stick, FBW jets do a lot of the flying for you.

It's a very precise stick with zero lag from the time you break free of center to when it begins moving the surfaces. The Hornet for instance has a lot of travel from the center position to max deflection. Same for all other jets save for the Viper. Why it's so smooth with the Eagle I don't know. It just is even though it shouldn't be.

The FSSB3L has no deflection at all. This means you have to make the FSSB3L act like a gimballed stick to DCS. As you apply more pressure to it, DCS sees it as deflection. The problem is the distance from center to full deflection is a long way. What you end up having to do is reduce the X saturation in DCS which shortens the travel distance for full deflection. This lessens the amount of pressure required for full deflection with the FSSB3L. LOL I'm not doing a good job explaining this and maybe someone like Supmua can do a better job of it. You CAN dial it in for other aircraft as I did with the 18 but I don't think it will ever feel as natural as a gimballed stick does.

Brilliant reply. Exactly what I was looking for.

Thats it then......sold.

Thank you so much. This forum never ceases to amaze me just how helpful people can be.

*Edit*

 

 

For jets like the Viper and Mirage, the FBW systems take away any oscillations you would get with other aircraft. You don't have to compensate for them with the stick, FBW jets do a lot of the flying for you.

 

 

 

It's a very precise stick with zero lag from the time you break free of center to when it begins moving the surfaces. The Hornet for instance has a lot of travel from the center position to max deflection. Same for all other jets save for the Viper. Why it's so smooth with the Eagle I don't know. It just is even though it shouldn't be.

 

The FSSB3L has no deflection at all. This means you have to make the FSSB3L act like a gimballed stick to DCS. As you apply more pressure to it, DCS sees it as deflection. The problem is the distance from center to full deflection is a long way. What you end up having to do is reduce the X saturation in DCS which shortens the travel distance for full deflection. This lessens the amount of pressure required for full deflection with the FSSB3L. LOL I'm not doing a good job explaining this and maybe someone like Supmua can do a better job of it. You CAN dial it in for other aircraft as I did with the 18 but I don't think it will ever feel as natural as a gimballed stick does.

First - thanks for all the great info...

Re the above explanation, its an interesting explanation but not really sure i get it. I've been planning on picking one up, might as well do it now as I am even more curious. I don't know how long delivery will take but i'll add my $.02 when I get it. I have never flown a FBW fighter IRL, though do have some time in older jet fighters and now fly a very, very twitchy aerobatic mono. You lost me a bit with the lag thing. My plane, like most small planes, has rods that run from the stick linkage to the ailerons and elevators, with cable/pulley to the rudder; others have hydraulic systems, or hydraulic actuated control surfaces driven by dual flight computers, all of them however should experience zero lag between pilot input and control surface movement. Different airplanes will definitely feel more responsive than others (usually dependent on size, and size of control surface relative to total wing surface).

I've never used one in a sim or real life, but I assumed that since the F-22 and F-35 use them that pilots and engineers came to the conclusion it was superior. Purely a guess, but it can be difficult to be precise with a regular stick under high G or especially rapid onset or neg-pos type G situations. Seems logical that a stick that doesn't require arm movement, where your arm is braced (against something other than your leg), would be preferable. But having not flown one, sim or RL, I can't mentally imagine that I could possibly be as precise.

When you are refueling or flying formation, or other precision maneuvers, do you find that you are as precise as you are with a gunfighter or virpil's high end?

Sorry for all the questions, I will know soon enough I suppose... I am very curious from an intellectual/pilot POV. Hard for me to discern a reason why it would work well on a f-15/16, but not 18.

You might post the question on the FSSB thread as well in Input/Output. I know I didn't do a good job explaining it. My problem with the 18 even when I dialed it in was when trapping. Everywhere else it was fine. It mainly has to do with the fact that the 18 has a traditional stick and rudder feel even though it's FBW to an extent as well. When you pull the stick back, forward or side to side, there is a slight lag before the surfaces move and then the jet. It's kind of like a buffer that keeps you from over doing it. The FSSB3 doesn't have any lag by default, when you put enough pressure to break free of center, the input is instantaneous. This means you have to balance out the pressure it took to break center with an equall amount of pressure to then move the surfaces. Otherwise the break free pressure will overdo the pressure needed to move the wing surfaces making the aircraft bounce for lack of a better word.

When I say "stick and rudder" I mean you need to stay in control of the jet. Whether by using stick adjustments or trim. The Viper does most of that for you and so does the Mirage. For instance, if you roll the Mirage and stop studdenly, it will stop. It does not need to be corrected back the other way to stop the roll. Same for the Viper but slightly less so than the Mirage. With the Hornet you'd have to correct back the other way. So, basically the Hornet is not as precise as the FSSB3 and causes over corrections until it's dialed in and you're accustomed to it.

Seriously though if you haven't already, post on the thread FSSB3 in input and output. Supmua will do a much better job of explaining it.

Also, delivery is insanely quick if they have it in stock. From Spain to Texas it took 4 days....

Here's the thread.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=241343

Cool video that shows how much the SSC actually moves. The pilot states 1/4" and demonstrates it by moving it around. My FSSB3L and F16SGRH bend close to the exact amount of deflection as the stick in the video. The Video also gives a good idea of the size of the pit for IPD adjustments in VR.

I found a film in which for a moment the stick range is also shown:

Yesterday I was playing with the settings of my FSSB R3L. I used the advice of Wicked - thanks buddy :) I set 8.13lb on roll and 13lb on pitch (the real F-16 has 17 and 25 respectively - it would be best to set 8.84lb and 13lb, but the closest to the real proportion is 8.13 with the maximum setting for pitch equal to 13). In addition, I set 70% NASA sensitivity for pitch and 120% for roll like Wicked. Rotated axis set to -12 degrees.