Modernised Mig 21?

Just make the Cuban modification that carry R-73. Imagine shoot head on and run away. That version work and worth it.

No extra mod in cockpit needed. (NavAidd, we already have NS430 Nav...)

https://goo.gl/images/FTzhsX

I voted 'no', and let me explain why.

I would love nothing more than to be able to fly the 21-93 or the LanceR. I think those would be great additions to DCS. That said; I would rather the Mig-21bis that we have RIGHT NOW work than for resources to be moved to a completely new project. As you can see; it's a big laundry list of problems that exist with the current module. Some of these problems are well over three years old. I don't want to say that maybe there wouldn't be interest in the future, but I don't want to set our sights too high. I feel pressuring M3 to start on a new project when they theoretically have three other projects going on right now (21, CE2, Corsair) is the wrong move and is putting pressure where pressure doesn't belong.

If we were going to vote about modernization programs that we could apply in our current situation; my vote goes to the BisD. Croatia's modernization program. Same Mig-21bis, but has some niceties like the NS430 mounted, better location of AoA indicator, and completely new radio stacks built-in. Including a Navigation radio and a dual-band V/UHF radio.

This accomplishes two very important things. For one it's enough of an upgrade to be compatible with the other modernized aircraft who aren't limited to twenty radio channels and 99 RSBN channels. But most importantly: This minor upgrade would force M3 to keep working on improvements for the bis as it is the basis for the bisD. Not only that, it is the perfect way to modernize the aircraft without changing too much about how it flies, what it's armed with, or what time period it belongs in.

The bisD is really just the same early 80's/late 70's 21 we all know and love with a few modern niceties bolted on, and I would have it no other way.

Croatian modernized Mig-21 are not many, right now they are even less... At least bring to the table a big float of modernized Mig-21.

I voted no.

the bis is the updated version.. and it was obsolete when they made it.

anything newer is just flogging a dead horse.

because they have an air intake in the nose, replacing the radar means a smaller less powerful one than any modern fighter. you cannot mount an equivalent radar to the f15 or f/a 18 or mig 29 or su27..they wont fit. so you are always losing the BVR fight..

its not a BVR fighter and cannot be turned into one.

so its a lot of effort just to get nato radios and gps.

and minimal combat improvement.

I love the mig21 bis. in the same way I love the British lightning.

but we retired the lightning because of the same issues.

you cant turn a dedicated interceptor into a multirole fighter.

the current mig21 has gamey touches so its radar will work through modern jamming. and the RWR will detect all modern radar.. so you have the "modern" EWR touches already.

a real bis would see nothing but snow and not pick up anything on its RWR in the average online match.

If ED approve this kind of addon to an aircraft like this with such a long life I voted yes. The developer can take this great opportunity to make an extra money and still they keep in real life good made stuff. Nothing weird there.

Croatian modernized Mig-21 are not many, right now they are even less... At least bring to the table a big float of modernized Mig-21.

Croatia was not the only one who modernized Mig-21bis' with additions like the ns430. Romania and Bulgaria did as well, and even upgraded them to LanceRs later in their life.

Granted, I'm getting this from off-the-back additions from Wikipedia, but you can't just pretend the BisD upgrades never happened. There are as many as 120-130 BisD's ever modernized. Not including retrofitted upgrades like the NS-430.

If the entire topic is about modernization, what would be the standard for the upgrades being 'valid'? 200? 300? For comparison, there were only 175 Bisons ever made.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Current/605-Bison.html

If ED approve this kind of addon to an aircraft like this with such a long life I voted yes. The developer can take this great opportunity to make an extra money and still they keep in real life good made stuff. Nothing weird there.

I agree, but which one would you consider numerous enough to make?

Let's take the simple r-73 upgrade you propsed here:

Just make the Cuban modification that carry R-73. Imagine shoot head on and run away. That version work and worth it.

 

No extra mod in cockpit needed. (NavAidd, we already have NS430 Nav...)

 

https://goo.gl/images/FTzhsX

And I agree, I would love the R73.

However, Cuba NEVER proved that they were able to reliably upgrade Mig-21bis' to use the 73. It was a hack that affects less than a dozen planes.

I'd be fine with 73 being added, either way.

However, Cuba NEVER proved that they were able to reliably upgrade Mig-21bis' to use the 73. It was a hack that affects less than a dozen planes.

 

I'd be fine with 73 being added, either way.

Seem that you want despise one modification to Puch another in the play. I personally don’t agree with your vision and you seem have some discrimination in your text without any good reason that justify your actions. I think the best modification is that one cost less money and time. Make a Lancer version is harder and more complicated than just add a quick and symple R-73. The numbers of Lancers in active still are very poor in number compared with other modifications. to get the same goal.

Edit: this mod is actually been made to the whole Mig-21Bis and MF versions in active.

Seem that you want despise one modification to Puch another in the play. I personally don’t agree with your vision and you seem have some discrimination in your text without any good reason that justify your actions. I think the best modification is that one cost less money and time. Make a Lancer version is harder and more complicated than just add a quick and symple R-73. The numbers of Lancers in active still are very poor in number compared with other modifications. to get the same goal.

 

Edit: this mod is actually been made to the whole Mig-21Bis an MF versions in active.

Several things

1. I'm not using any discriminatory language for either one upgrade or another, what I've posted are facts using the best sources that I can find on the matter

2. The BisD is not the Lancer. The BisD is a designation for existing Bis aircraft retrofitted with minor upgrades like a new radio stack and a gps module. The Lancer is a complete avionics and sensor upgrade offered by an Israeli company, and I agree putting that in when the Bis isn't complete would be a waste of time. The reason I suggestd the BisD is because Magnitude 3 could continue improving the aircraft we have now while working toward that in the future. Ultimately, I don't want a new Mig-21, I want them to finish the one we have.

3. I would like to know about those MF and Bis variants which were not cuban that may have been modified for 73's.

Best site I've found on the matter:

http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/EqMiG21-e.html

I'm not trying to argue that mine is better than yours, and I would love the 73 on the fishbed, but I also think that trying to modernize what we have isn't the right thing to do. If we want to modernize, there are some simple additions M3 could add in like I've mentioned earlier that do not deviate from the aircraft we already have.

I would love 73s to be added, but first I would like the missiles we already have to work.

Seem that you want despise one modification to Puch another in the play. I personally don’t agree with your vision and you seem have some discrimination in your text without any good reason that justify your actions. I think the best modification is that one cost less money and time. Make a Lancer version is harder and more complicated than just add a quick and symple R-73. The numbers of Lancers in active still are very poor in number compared with other modifications. to get the same goal.

 

Edit: this mod is actually been made to the whole Mig-21Bis and MF versions in active.

You do have to remember that the devs would need data to verify all of this, so if they could prove it and had the relevant data then sure it would be less effort to modify and implement however it may be hard to get said data anyway.

You do have to remember that the devs would need data to verify all of this, so if they could prove it and had the relevant data then sure it would be less effort to modify and implement however it may be hard to get said data anyway.

The same argument apply for every aircraft we actually have in this simulator and they didn’t pass your killer test asking for real data to prove from one or other (depending who is convenient). Leave this kind of argument for other place here is not the right place we are not affiliated to any mylitary organization so why ask for prove for everybody you want take apart. Freedom is for everybody here in this community.

I would love nothing more than to mount the 73 on the bis, and there are some very good arguments for why that would be a good idea here, but at the same time; there has never been any concrete examples of this happening unless someone wants to try and track down a cuban crew chief and ask them how they got it to work. As all of my searching for examples of this either point back to the ED forums or exist as hearsay on other forums.

Frankly I would think that if the SU-25T can fire them in boresight mode, then the Mig-21bis would be equally capable, but I have no proof of that.

The same argument apply for every aircraft we actually have in this simulator and they didn’t pass your killer test asking for real data to prove from one or other (depending who is convenient). Leave this kind of argument for other place here is not the right place we are not affiliated to any mylitary organization so why ask for prove for everybody you want take apart. Freedom is for everybody here in this community.

They may not be affiliated with the military but you have to remember that this is a simulator that prides itself on realism, would you be flying it if it was not realistic? because in that regard it would become another world of warplanes.

Don’t forget Mig-29A came with R-60. Same stations, with some work to convert the wire connection. Target track was perfectly working. Nothing impossible and really easy modification in comparition with others.

Lancer version have probably the same work nothing impossible there... with the difference the job was made by 3rd parties and they added more avionic changes so the price and amount of work/time was much more. In comparison with the Cuban R-73 mod "only".

Okay R-73s as long as coalition is set to Cuba:)

I think if we rally for R-73s, we should first find the real-life instance where they were used on the bis'.

I know they exist, but several days of searching has left me with nothing concrete. Does anyone have any examples?

I'd buy it but there's a long list of more appropriate aircraft to make. Like anything from Vietnam era or a full fidelity mig 29 or mig 25.

I'd rather have a new plane then to modernize one we already have.

I'd rather have a new plane then to modernize one we already have.

I fully agree with this.

We need to fix our current shit out before we daydream about future!

Is the fighter jet with the longer service life ever in the planet. Deserve a better treatment with a modernization by the last user in this last time of his life. Does not matter which one. We still have this jet in fight in Syria actually the hottest conflict and they still keep bombing with this piece of old bird.

Thanks for the positive vote!!!

Is the fighter jet with the longer service life ever in the planet. Deserve a better treatment with a modernization by the last user in this last time of his life. Does not matter which one. We still have this jet in fight in Syria actually the hottest conflict and they still keep bombing with this piece of old bird.

 

Thanks for the positive vote!!!

I was thinking about it, and I change my mind from earlier: I would like to see a modern Fishbed upgraded variant like the 2000 or the Lancer.

Not just because it's an iconic fighter, but because the function of modern capabilities is practically a new fighter on its own. Both the 2000 and the Lancer can use the Python 3 missile, for instance, which is a more effective missile than the R-73, especially in boresight mode. Not to mention BVR capabilities like R-27's or Derby missiles.

Yea... nah.

I was thinking about it, and I change my mind from earlier: I would like to see a modern Fishbed upgraded variant like the 2000 or the Lancer.

Not just because it's an iconic fighter, but because the function of modern capabilities is practically a new fighter on its own. Both the 2000 and the Lancer can use the Python 3 missile, for instance, which is a more effective missile than the R-73, especially in boresight mode. Not to mention BVR capabilities like R-27's or Derby missiles.

that is if there is even a publicly available manuals for such a modernized Mig....

I voted 'no', and let me explain why.

 

I would love nothing more than to be able to fly the 21-93 or the LanceR. I think those would be great additions to DCS. That said; I would rather the Mig-21bis that we have RIGHT NOW work than for resources to be moved to a completely new project. As you can see; it's a big laundry list of problems that exist with the current module. Some of these problems are well over three years old. I don't want to say that maybe there wouldn't be interest in the future, but I don't want to set our sights too high. I feel pressuring M3 to start on a new project when they theoretically have three other projects going on right now (21, CE2, Corsair) is the wrong move and is putting pressure where pressure doesn't belong.

 

If we were going to vote about modernization programs that we could apply in our current situation; my vote goes to the BisD. Croatia's modernization program. Same Mig-21bis, but has some niceties like the NS430 mounted, better location of AoA indicator, and completely new radio stacks built-in. Including a Navigation radio and a dual-band V/UHF radio.

 

 

 

 

 

This accomplishes two very important things. For one it's enough of an upgrade to be compatible with the other modernized aircraft who aren't limited to twenty radio channels and 99 RSBN channels. But most importantly: This minor upgrade would force M3 to keep working on improvements for the bis as it is the basis for the bisD. Not only that, it is the perfect way to modernize the aircraft without changing too much about how it flies, what it's armed with, or what time period it belongs in.

 

The bisD is really just the same early 80's/late 70's 21 we all know and love with a few modern niceties bolted on, and I would have it no other way.

where is radar screen in first two pictures?

We need to fix our current shit out before we daydream about future!

+1000