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Tobii Eye Tracker 4C Review


D.Va

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Update: my verdict for the Tobii Eye Tracker 4C is 4/10, I cannot generally recommend it:

 

The Tobii Eye Tracker 4C is a 2017 eye and head tracker, which costs as much as the TrackIR 5, 90% cheaper than VR. If the head tracking had been as accurate as the TIR5, the extra eye tracking and the head tracking not needing any hat would have made it the superior product by far. Unfortunately, the head tracking is delayed by about 0.2 seconds, which is annoying compared with the not at all noticeable delay of the TIR5. If we only compare the head tracking, the TIR5 is the superior product and again, if both head tracking and eye tracking are active, the head tracking really ruins the entire experience. If only eye tracking is active, it’s a lot snappier, but you can only look 90 degrees left and right, instead of 130 degrees. I found the 4C works very well in one aircraft: the UH-1H, where it really works just about perfectly with the right software options. The 4C probably works very well in games other than DCS and in the UH-1H I was able to set it up, so I could look freely around the screen, including up and down between the horizon and my instruments, and the camera would only subtly shift where pointed my eyes, with most work being done by my head when looking left and right. However, the scenario where the 4C fails is quickly looking over your shoulder in any airplane. Turning from looking back at my left engine, to looking at my right engine, in the A-10C takes about two full seconds with the 4C, but I can do it just as fast as I can turn my head with the TIR5. The 4C doesn’t even start turning the camera until I’m done moving my head.

 

I CAN recommend the 4C for UH-1H pilots and I can imagine it working great in ARMA and other games where you only use it to focus on points that are in your front 180 degrees, but for general use in DCS I cannot recommend it to anyone. Switching to the TIR5 after using the 4C for a while feels like a breeze and suddenly, I can shake my head as wildly as I want and get an instant response, or quickly flick the camera from over one shoulder to another in 0.2 seconds, instead of the camera not moving until after 0.2 seconds.

 

If I wanted to show off DCS with a Huey flight over Vegas, I would want to use the super-impressive 4C technology instead of the dumb TIR5 hat, but that’s about it.

 

I’m going to return my ET4C and stick with my TIR5. But I will definitely be keeping a close eye on the next generation of Tobii head and eye trackers coming up!

 

What is the Tobii Eye Tracker 4C anyway?

The SteelSeries Sentry was released in 2015, developed by Tobii, followed by the Tobii EyeX in 2016 and Tobii Eye Tracker 4C in 2017. The SteelSeries Sentry and EyeX were eye trackers and reviews of the products were positive but added that the technology was in its infancy. The Eye Tracker 4C is a 3rd generation eye tracker and adds head tracking as well!

 

How does it work?

The Eye Tracker 4C looks like a stick with infrared cameras on it that you attach to your monitor and after installing the software and calibrating it for 5 minutes, it simply works without modifying any special options in DCS. A lot of you are probably wondering how it works in-game and depending on the options in the software, it can work like this:

  • As you hover over Vegas in your Huey, the camera sweeps across the streets along with your eye movements and when you look down on the instruments, the camera centres on them.

Or this:

  • As you look up and down between the skyscrapers and your instruments, the camera is still, but as you look at the edge of your monitor, the camera scrolls to your sides.

In other words, unlike the TrackIR 5, the Eye Tracker 4C never exaggerates your eye movements. Instead, it allows you to look outside of your monitor with another strategy: by scrolling when you look away from the centre of the monitor and with the optional deadzone, described above, you can make the camera only scroll when you look at the edge of the monitor.

A few people are concerned that the camera moves around a lot when they simply look down on their instruments: this can be fixed with a deadzone and probably other ways also.

 

Why is it interesting?

The alternatives are currently VR and TrackIR 5. VR headsets cost A LOT and even with an equally expensive graphics card, you must cut the graphics options considerably to make it work well and it makes your expensive monitor obsolete. TrackIR 5 is a lot less immersive, but also has less technical limitations and is cheaper. Eye Tracker 4C costs as much as TrackIR 5, but bundles with games and in Sweden, for instance, it’s 25% cheaper than TrackIR 5. The big difference between TIR5 and ET4C is that you don’t need any damned hat with ET4C, which is why I’m interested in it. In this regard, it’s comparable to FaceTrackNoIR, which unfortunately never was commercialised or garnered any success. In theory, ET4C, tracking eyes AND head, can be a lot better than TrackIR 5, but in reality, they are both flawed products and answering which one you should get isn’t immediately obvious: I hope to find an answer here.


Edited by D.Va

Read my DCS 2.5 Optimisation Guide (version 2.5.4):

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3828073

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TrackIR 5 is supported by about 100 games to my knowledge and Tobii hit 100 games a few months ago, so Tobii will probably outgrow Naturalpoint over the course of the year.

 

A final note: the ET4C has 6DOF support (6 degrees of freedom), but this is not implemented into any games yet, for unknown reasons. Currently, we only have 3DOF in DCS 2.5.

 

100 games but no 6DOF. No thanks.

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I will make a verdict tomorrow. Eye tracking works, but the head tracking is strongly inferior to TIR5 and when both are active, the delayed head tracking really ruins the overall experience. I found the technology works just about perfectly in the UH-1H with head tracking off, but that limits your view to 180 degrees in front (vs. 260), which is unacceptable in airplanes.

 

Switching back to TIR5 after an evening of flying with Eye Tracker made me almost instantly decide that I'm going to return the Tobii.

 

I will test it a little bit more with the other helicopters and see if there's anything salvageable about it, but I won't test it in any other games. I can imagine it working very well in ARMA and Elite with only eye tracking. But in DCS, being able to quickly look over your shoulder left and right is really important and that is one of the weaknesses of the Eye Tracker.

Read my DCS 2.5 Optimisation Guide (version 2.5.4):

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3828073

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With VR getting better with each release, TiR will have a limited runway. Still useful, I'm sure. But not much more runway for any kind of tracking gear.

hsb

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200€ TiR5Pro vs. 449,-€ Rift..hmmm

 

Rift doesnt need a proper monitor, TiR5 does.

 

I have both, like most VR users may have, and I would not replace my TiR5 if it broke.

 

VR: 449€ 1080Ti: 1000€ = 1500€ still 550 to spare

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VR (including graphics card) $2000

Eye/head tracking $200

There's your argument against VR.

 

 

It's always the same. You can play DCS on a 15" monitor, tune everything down and play with integrated gpu. But I doubt many will. VR's price is already coming down, it costs no more than $400. GPU prices will continue to drop and capabilities will continue to increase. So again, in a few years, TrackIRs of the world will become irrelevant.

hsb

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It's always the same. You can play DCS on a 15" monitor, tune everything down and play with integrated gpu. But I doubt many will. VR's price is already coming down, it costs no more than $400. GPU prices will continue to drop and capabilities will continue to increase. So again, in a few years, TrackIRs of the world will become irrelevant.

Here's an optimist. I play DCS on a 24" monitor with almost everything maxed, but that doesn't mean my CPU+GPU would have to cost more than $450 today. The standard pricing of the Oculus Rift on Amazon is $500 ($600 in Sweden), also requiring a graphics card that can easily handle it, which is more than the TrackIR 5 no matter how you twist and turn it. The 2nd generation of VR begins in Q2-Q4 2018, but nobody knows how big a step it will be just yet.

 

You have kind of a snide attitude against people who aren't totally made out of money.

 

Also, GPU prices are currently rising, if you've been watching the news at all, that is thumbup.gif

Read my DCS 2.5 Optimisation Guide (version 2.5.4):

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3828073

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Here's an optimist. I play DCS on a 24" monitor with almost everything maxed, but that doesn't mean my CPU+GPU would have to cost more than $450 today. The standard pricing of the Oculus Rift on Amazon is $500 ($600 in Sweden), also requiring a graphics card that can easily handle it, which is more than the TrackIR 5 no matter how you twist and turn it. The 2nd generation of VR begins in Q2-Q4 2018, but nobody knows how big a step it will be just yet.

 

You have kind of a snide attitude against people who aren't totally made out of money.

 

Also, GPU prices are currently rising, if you've been watching the news at all, that is thumbup.gif

 

Again, you missed the point ENTIRELY.

 

1) It's just the inevitable future based on capabilities. Same thing happened in the joystick area. Same happened in the harddisk - SSD transition.

 

2) You couldn't play current DCS five years ago. now you can. Same will be true of VR in 5 years. It's inevitable.

 

3) I didn't tell anyone to buy VR. So how can I have a snide attitude? Is it a snide comment to say that computers will be cheaper in 2 years? That's essentially what I said. But I did get a chuckle that you are the one tell me that I have an attitude. Everyone can prioritize based on need.

 

4) GPU prices going up is a market demand driven. Not technology driven. NVidia and AMD didn't jack up the price, the market did. Market self corrects - ALWAYS.

 

Final point I'll make. TrackIR will be like VGA cards of the past. It's just inevitable since price and performance (inverse relationship) will continue to march on.


Edited by hansangb

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Here's an optimist. I play DCS on a 24" monitor with almost everything maxed,...

 

The fact that you mention the monitor dimensions, and not the resolution, reflects very poorly on your knowledge of hardware. Of course, you did say that specs don't matter. :doh:

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With VR getting better with each release, TiR will have a limited runway. Still useful, I'm sure. But not much more runway for any kind of tracking gear.

 

The VR has actually "limited runway" as it ain't as successful as hoped. And it is troublesome for some to use, as even the actual VR games that are worth the price, effort etc are few. Main games where it shines are driving and flying simulators, and in flying simulators we have too much detail loss it to be really amazing and great tool.

 

It is nice to fly in VR, but it is just annoying how you can not see well. Spot things that you should and it just is step back in decades about graphical department.

 

Just by looking a display with TrackIR etc, it is beautiful to fly and look every module.

 

But once in VR you now experience the Oculus touch controllers to click buttons etc, you don't want to go back to mouse! That is the immersion creator far more than any VR HMD. If you could combine a touch controllers with the TrackIR, it would be great. But to get the same 1:1 hand control is just...

 

Hopefully VR is still alive and kicking the next 5-10 years, as that is required it to get really going. But we likely already are talking about 3-4 years when it either makes it, or dies just like all previous generations.

 

We need very radical improvements, like 220 FOV, eye tracking, 4K per eye, and far better optics (no "godrays") that can be run on common <1000€ PC setup.

 

Is that possible? Very difficult to say. Maybe if you get 2x 1080Ti or 1-2 generation newer GPU in SLI where each eye is rendered by dedicated GPU, but we are talking easily 3000-4000€ setup for that, and lucky if it runs well even then.

 

TrackIR huge benefit is that it "just works", doesn't have the same immersion of sitting in cockpit, but hey, that ain't so much needed as fun really is in operating the aircraft and its systems and do combat, not just fly around.

 

The Tobii Eye tracker with a TrackIR and mouse emulation sounds instead far nicer idea. Look a button/switch and press button to click/switch them... That is what I would take gladly over VR if it would work at least with 99% accuracy.

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2) You couldn't play current DCS five years ago. now you can. Same will be true of VR in 5 years. It's inevitable.

 

Do you remember this?

 

 

It was a huge economical success and hit.... But gameplay wise a flop.

 

DCS is not there to make a difference is the VR success or not... That is totally up to every other game out there.

 

 

And VR has currently sold far less than either of those, or even less than both those combined!

 

That is the challenge, you are wearing a HMD. Strapped, tethered, requiring a large space and for what? Physical exercise?

Why the joypad is the #1 game controller and why gaming consoles are far more used for gaming than PC? Because simplicity, because low price, and because it is just relaxing and effortless to sit down on coach and just operate a small gadget in your hands to have fun!

 

Look how the VR is going: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

 

Currently 0.2% of the gaming computers has a any VR in use!

 

We are talking NICHE gaming group.... Not something that everyone is throwing their money at! And in that niche VR market, DCS World is even smaller than the most used VR games!

 

 

IMHO Microsoft is in the right track that a Hololens they have demoed:

https://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/microsoft-hololens.jpg

 

But it is not for immersion gaming like a flying or driving as that is there to have augmented reality where digital content is overlaid the real world. That is for designers, content creators etc but not for gaming in the traditional sense. It is great to draw a RTS game on your table, chessboard on office table or allow you to scalp your 3D model etc. But to fly in aircraft for combat? Nope.

 

It is just so much nicer to fly with TrackIR than it is with VR. Hardcore fans can believe what ever they want but at this rate the VR is following Wii and Kinect, and ends up just like all previous five VR generations before Oculus and Vive.

 

So sorry, but that is very likely the heading.

* Goes back to fly in VR... :pilotfly:

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Well well, someone shut the door, no wonder.

 

S I L E N C E

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What the VR crowd is missing is that the technology is not that new and cutting edge:

 

LinkboxWithHMD.jpg

 

history-of-virtual-reality.jpg

 

The VFX-1 VR set had a premiere in 1995... which means there had been a 20 years gap after which VR makes it's come back. Much more successfull this time but there are still a lot of applications like the office, engineering and even games where VR will not be a prefered way. Actually I would say that the simulators are kind of a niche that work with VR exceptionally well. FPS, RTS, RPG's, sport games like FIFA will stay on the monitors for a long time.

Not mentioning the price that is not only connected with a VR set but with a top spec PC components required to support it.

 

IMO the future will evolve more towards a big, flexible, light, high resolution and contrast range screens like OLED which have much wider application. VR will stay for good but rather in a specialized areas.

 

Finally there is also a soft aspect related to the VR. I'll be fine having my new born son playing a console in a few years. But I can't imagine him with the VR sorry to say bucket on his head. That would be allowing him to isloate from the real world too much.

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Firmek, that's well understood. When I was in the Army and we trained with Simnet, there was a Sparc station driving every Bradley, M1, Apache etc sims. But DCS is way better than what the Army used with Simnet.

 

VR has been available, but not for the masses. Palmer Lucky made it available for the masses and for the end consumer, it is and was a watershed moment.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Again, you missed the point ENTIRELY.

 

1) It's just the inevitable future based on capabilities. Same thing happened in the joystick area. Same happened in the harddisk - SSD transition.

 

2) You couldn't play current DCS five years ago. now you can. Same will be true of VR in 5 years. It's inevitable.

 

3) I didn't tell anyone to buy VR. So how can I have a snide attitude? Is it a snide comment to say that computers will be cheaper in 2 years? That's essentially what I said. But I did get a chuckle that you are the one tell me that I have an attitude. Everyone can prioritize based on need.

 

4) GPU prices going up is a market demand driven. Not technology driven. NVidia and AMD didn't jack up the price, the market did. Market self corrects - ALWAYS.

 

Final point I'll make. TrackIR will be like VGA cards of the past. It's just inevitable since price and performance (inverse relationship) will continue to march on.

 

Wow, the "inevitable future"? May as well buy an i20 and 256GB of RAM preparing for the "inevitable future". What matters with regards to head and eye tracking versus virtual reality is today. You know what day it is? Today.

 

Yeah, VR may replace head tracking, only to be replaced by head tracking again when we have glassless 3D monitors and people don't want to encapsulate themselves anymore, only to be replaced by neural injections. Why is this relevant today?

 

The fact that you mention the monitor dimensions, and not the resolution, reflects very poorly on your knowledge of hardware. Of course, you did say that specs don't matter. :doh:

Are you calling hansangb an idiot? Because he's the one who wrote 15" and I answered.

 

Well well, someone shut the door, no wonder.

 

S I L E N C E

Are you referring to me? I'm still waiting for your answer in the other thread about RAM, where I kind of disproved your antics with a benchmark.


Edited by D.Va

Read my DCS 2.5 Optimisation Guide (version 2.5.4):

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3828073

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Are you calling hansangb an idiot? Because he's the one who wrote 15" and I answered.

 

Nope. You are the only one that used that word.

 

A 15" monitor implies a certain res, due to it's age. A 24" does not.


Edited by cichlidfan
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cichlidfan,

 

clean your inbox, cannot PM you, your QUOTA has been reached ;(

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-snip-

Yeah, VR may replace head tracking, only to be replaced by head tracking again when we have glassless 3D monitors and people don't want to encapsulate themselves anymore, only to be replaced by neural injections. Why is this relevant today?

-snip-

 

Are you referring to me? I'm still waiting for your answer in the other thread about RAM, where I kind of disproved your antics with a benchmark.

 

TrackIR is a dead end technology. It just is. Because whatever glasses come out will, of course, have built in tracking.

 

And I'm still waiting for the answer to my question that clearly showed that DCS + Windows uses more the 8GB. But it's OK, don't worry about it. That's why ED gave us the ignore list. I wish you the best of luck with your guide.

  • Like 1

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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hansangb, to underline what you said,

 

when I open DCS 2.5, just the menue, I hover at around 10.500MB RAM and 15GB swap.

 

Had the kids over yesterday and we had a DCS Fest for the boys n girls old enough to operate the gear. All done offline, various aircraft incl. helicopters.

 

I am happy that I have more than 8GB...and for now with the bug, it comes in handy to have 16GB extra to iron out the leak.

 

The kids had mega fun, they learned a little more about flying...and I am sure 8GB only would have spoiled the session imho. With or without the bug.

 

 

...where is this ignore button again ??, never had to use it till today ....

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Nope. You are the only one that used that word.

 

A 15" monitor implies a certain res, due to it's age. A 24" does not.

Oh, really? 24" does not imply a resolution? In Sweden, out of the 64 most popular 24" computer monitors, 63 are 1920x1080 or 1920x1200.

 

TrackIR is a dead end technology. It just is. Because whatever glasses come out will, of course, have built in tracking.

 

And I'm still waiting for the answer to my question that clearly showed that DCS + Windows uses more the 8GB. But it's OK, don't worry about it. That's why ED gave us the ignore list. I wish you the best of luck with your guide.

Today, TrackIR is not dead. Do you agree? Hence, my argument against VR is valid today.

 

hansangb, to underline what you said,

 

when I open DCS 2.5, just the menue, I hover at around 10.500MB RAM and 15GB swap.

 

Had the kids over yesterday and we had a DCS Fest for the boys n girls old enough to operate the gear. All done offline, various aircraft incl. helicopters.

 

I am happy that I have more than 8GB...and for now with the bug, it comes in handy to have 16GB extra to iron out the leak.

 

The kids had mega fun, they learned a little more about flying...and I am sure 8GB only would have spoiled the session imho. With or without the bug.

 

 

...where is this ignore button again ??, never had to use it till today ....

Irrelevant, because I disproved you with an 8GB benchmark and you have 32GB and not 8GB.

Read my DCS 2.5 Optimisation Guide (version 2.5.4):

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3828073

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:doh:

 

:music_whistling:

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OK D.Va.,

 

time to get this straight once and for all !

 

I am not disrespectful as youi stated in your negative rep, you are just unable to accept that you have limited insight and experience and thus more than one forum member opposes your views, repeatingly. Trying to hold others back from following your questionable advices.

 

We can talk freely, I do not hold anything back. Imho, you better hold back with your advices and dont rep others negative just because they oppose you, funded.

 

 

I think this needs an admin, NOW, please...

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OK D.Va.,

 

time to get this straight once and for all !

 

I am not disrespectful as youi stated in your negative rep, you are just unable to accept that you have limited insight and experience and thus more than one forum member opposes your views, repeatingly. Trying to hold others back from following your questionable advices.

 

We can talk freely, I do not hold anything back. Imho, you better hold back with your advices and dont rep others negative just because they oppose you, funded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this needs an admin, NOW, please...

You stalk me around the forum, even into my own threads, opposing my advice, the accuracy of which I have demonstrated with benchmarks, but despite this you are unwilling to admit fault. That's, along with your constant condensation, why your elitist clique (you, Cichlidfan and if I remember correctly, hansangb) have recieved negative reputation from me.

doh.gif

 

I mean, just look up. Cichlidfan, who argues against the fact that 98% of 24" computer monitors are 1080/1200p, hansangb, who apparently argues against my opinion that eye and head tracking remains relevant on the consumer market today since VR is currently way more expensive, which it is as a matter of fact, and you, who argue against the fact that DCS runs with 8GB RAM, which I've benchmarked and you haven't. I make logical arguments based on facts here.

 

Look up again and observe how little either of you three have contributed to this thread, which I graciously took the time to write for the community and is a review of a product for playing DCS. For this reason, I will proceed to report all your posts in this thread to the moderators in the morning, if they haven't cleaned it up already by then, for violation against the forum rules. What are you even doing in this thread?

"1.5 Any and all Off Topic posts will be deleted without notice. Posts should be on topic based on the thread title, and threads should on topic based on the Forum section they are posted in. Posts that are attempts to hijack, troll, or ask questions that have been answered already will also be considered OT and removed. Repeat offenders may receive warnings."


Edited by D.Va

Read my DCS 2.5 Optimisation Guide (version 2.5.4):

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3828073

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