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Tips for Mi-8 aerobatics.


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I've found the Mi-8 (when lightly loaded) can take a bashing in the air quite nicely and looks pretty cool doing it.

 

The only way to break the helo is by doing negative G (rotor hits tail), going over 2.5-3G (tail breaks off), and of course hitting the ground due to VRS, but as long as you keep some forward speed you're fine.

 

Watch the G meter. If it looks like it's going to swing past 2.5 and on to 3+, lower the collective a bit until you can reduce the pitch rate with cyclic.

 

Don't be afraid of doing large, sudden movements of the cyclic and rudder pedals as you can't mast bump and you have lots of yaw authority. There are no consequences to full lateral cyclic deflections. At low speed full back cyclic only risks overspeeding the rotors and possible VRS. There is a LOT more forward than aft cyclic authority.

 

The Hip's engines are big and need time to spool up. Keep your ears open. If you hear the rotors speed up and the engines slow down, BE VERY CAREFUL when re-applying collective as the engines won't be ready to take the load for another 2-3 seconds. If you need to you can pull collective to save your arse at the cost of killing the generators, just land and reset the Pitch/Roll autopilot.

 

A lot of you are probably wondering "but why?" Well,j most people don't expect to see the biggest helo in the game being thrown around like it's a remote controlled model. It also is good training for defensive maneuvers because it really teaches you the limits of what she can do in an emergency. Did I mention how much fun it is?

 

Will probably make a video on the topic tonight.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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Something like this? :D

 

 

... I'd love to watch your video, since I purchased this helo yesterday (at Steam's sale) and I'm barely able to hover it :)

 

Cheers!


Edited by Rudel_chw

 

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Slapped together video with very, very quiet audio for some reason.

 

Things get boring when I start climbing but pick back up at 3:50


Edited by Pocket Sized

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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Fantastic ! ... I wouldnt have tought that such a large copter could almost pull a full loop :)

 

Great idea to show what are your control inputs ... do you use Oculus Rift?

 

I'm still a long long way of controlling the Mi-8 like you do :( ... anyway, really nice video :)

 

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Fantastic ! ... I wouldnt have tought that such a large copter could almost pull a full loop :)

 

Great idea to show what are your control inputs ... do you use Oculus Rift?

 

I'm still a long long way of controlling the Mi-8 like you do :( ... anyway, really nice video :)

 

I use TrackIR 4 + the pro clip

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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I use TrackIR 4 + the pro clip

 

Oh .. my guess was because of the 4:3 proportion of your screen and didnt notice the trackIR usage on the video :)

 

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Like the loop part :)

 

 

The problematic part of flying the Mi-8 is it's delayed reaction to collective input mostly when pitching her up to slow down or bank around hard to bleed speed in a 270�° landing, the big & slow engines dont make it easier to settle it down and not end in a Monday-Tuesday-Wdenesday swinging up & down until leveled where you wanna be. It's by no means easy and needs input before the machine acts up, more than the Ka or Huey do imho. the mass takes it's toll right there.

My best and smoothest looking flights are with almost no control input at all, the slightest you need is the most you should, like in R/C, watch an avid R/C pilot flying fast and you merely see his fingers move, gentle as hell.

 

Watch the ball, I think you need more rudder input in most turns, your nose seems to point UP from what I derive. If you overdo that i.e. in a 270° landing approach bleeding all speed from 250-0 in 7-10 secs you end up nose high tail sliding DOWNWARDS :)

 

It's easy to moan but hard to make it better !

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Like the loop part :)

 

[. . .]

 

Watch the ball, I think you need more rudder input in most turns, your nose seems to point UP from what I derive. If you overdo that i.e. in a 270° landing approach bleeding all speed from 250-0 in 7-10 secs you end up nose high tail sliding DOWNWARDS :)

 

It's easy to moan but hard to make it better !

 

Usually I pay attention to the ball in flight but here I was trying to focus on not dying ;)

 

That, and letting the vertical stabilizer take the load instead of the tail rotor gives more power to the main rotor. For this reason I now do mostly left hand turns when I need power.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can someone explain why the cow is reducing the engine RPM so much by lowering the collective? Some times the RPM is down to 80-70% and the engine is to slow to spool up after a quick collective pull at the Transition to a hover.

 

Gen 1 fail... Gen 2 fail... Crash !:joystick:

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The manual states that any collective increase or decrease outside of 2 or 3 degrees per second should be avoided. It's the way the transmission and gearbox work.

 

Couple that to the fact that the engines, indeed, are slow to spool-up when you request power and yo will end up with a situation where you can't get the energy to need to get out of your situation.

 

The solution is very simple, plan ahead. If you're dating a girl and do a Trump move, expect to get slapped. But if you take it nice and easy, wine and dine, you're golden!

Same goes for the Mi-8, she's a lady that wants to be treated well, don't yank her chain or she'll slap you silly. Make your movements gentle and smooth and she'll treat you well.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

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Exactly what Looney said.

 

The engines will power down almost instantly to keep the rotors from over speeding.

 

You have to watch and listen to feel what the engines are doing. If they dip down you have to be prepared to raise the collective slowly or land very hard.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

I made a thing. Cold started in 1 minute 45 and demonstrated various aerobatics then brought her down for an autorotation landing with both engines out. I've gotten a lot of practice since my last attempt so the maneuvers in this video are a fair bit more aggressive. My engines were not happy with me afterwards :D

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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I made a thing. Cold started in 1 minute 45 and demonstrated various aerobatics then brought her down for an autorotation landing with both engines out. I've gotten a lot of practice since my last attempt so the maneuvers in this video are a fair bit more aggressive. My engines were not happy with me afterwards :D

 

A bit offtopic, sorry, and no offense, but cold start is screwed up. Every time I see this kind of cold starts I just cry :noexpression:

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A bit offtopic, sorry, and no offense, but cold start is screwed up. Every time I see this kind of cold starts I just cry :noexpression:

 

Oh, I know. I wanted to see how quickly I could get her airborne at the cost of doing a very unrealistic startup. Usually I will start both engines and once they're both stabilized at idle I slowly spin up the rotors. Not to mention the near constant overloading of the engines, for most of the display they were well over max takeoff EPR.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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Oh, I know. I wanted to see how quickly I could get her airborne at the cost of doing a very unrealistic startup. Usually I will start both engines and once they're both stabilized at idle I slowly spin up the rotors. Not to mention the near constant overloading of the engines, for most of the display they were well over max takeoff EPR.

 

IRL after that kind of overloading most likely the helicopter would need new engines )

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for most of the display they were well over max takeoff EPR.

 

And how was the EGT and/or other temps? In the red all the time as well? Because like the Huey, the Mi-8 seems to completely lack a heat damage model too if that was the case...

 

PS. You're referring to EPR there. Is that engine pressure ratio or engine power rating, BTW?

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And how was the EGT and/or other temps? In the red all the time as well? Because like the Huey, the Mi-8 seems to completely lack a heat damage model too if that was the case...

 

PS. You're referring to EPR there. Is that engine pressure ratio or engine power rating, BTW?

 

Not sure about other Temps but I think the EGT was brushing the red, which was probably the limiting factor (RPM was about 98%).

 

The Mi-8 has a little vertical scale to the bottom left of the front panel which measures engine pressure ratio. It has a red index mark with 3 tabs on it. The tabs represent max takeoff, max continuous, and cruise power. This is your ultimate "horsepower" gauge that shows how hard the engines are being pushed.

 

The Mi-8 does have an engine damage model. In the mission editor there's an engine life slider that changes how "old" the engines are. When they're old they will degrade very quickly with overloading, when they're brand new they won't complain for quite a while (mine were brand new). In the video you can see the beginnings of it in the EGT gauges, which were starting to desync slightly.

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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Oh, I know the vertical gauge & the meaning of the marks per se, just had forgotten on what variable it was based on. Thanks!

 

And I know it has an engine damage model, but the Huey is lacking heat-induced engine failures altogether & I was wondering what's the case here. But seems the Mi-8 has them, which is reassuring to hear. I fly mine sooo conservatively that I never hit said limits y'know ;)

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in the EGT gauges, which were starting to desync slightly.

 

I actually noticed this too yesterday when I purposedly overloaded the engines for some time. So yeah, the Mi-8 seems to have a comprehensive powerplant damage model now! Coolers - or should we rather say hotters hehe :thumbup:

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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  • 4 months later...

A bit of an update:

 

I've kept at it, my maneuvers are getting smoother and more aggressive. One of these days I'm going to come up with a "solo display" with pre-planned maneuvers, maybe put on my own little airshow :P

 

Most notably, I figured out how to do a front flip. First, however, I should probably explain how to do a simple loop.

 

The entry can be made at any altitude, right down to ground level. Recommended speed is about 200-250kmh. Pull up, using collective and cyclic in unison, to maintain about 2.5G. The purpose of this is to gain as much vertical speed as possible, so continue easing more collective until your nose reaches 70° or so. Then, pull back fully on the cyclic and drop collective when you reach 90°. Use pedal inputs to keep her straight while you go over the top. When you are pointing straight at the ground, start adding collective and adjust cyclic to pull out of the resulting dive. This is the hardest part of the maneuver, you must be very careful to stay below 3G while also avoiding the ground. Precise rotor and engine management* are absolutely critical, if the engines throttle down during recovery, you're gonna have a hell of a time.

 

To do a front flip, just do a loop, but the entry is made going backwards! It's incredibly difficult to judge the recovery and I often VRS a bit. You can also do the regular loop entry and push forward as you go over the top, but this can cause the main rotor to strike the tail.

 

*this is a topic I'm gonna have to cover in a video. Basically, once you get a feel for indirectly managing the engines and keeping track of the kinetic energy in the rotors, you can do some pretty impressive things. With timed cyclic inputs, it's possible to slam from nearly zero to full collective with little change in rotor RPM. Such rapid changes in thrust are very useful for tight maneuvering. "Indirect engine management" is simply flying in a manner that keeps the engines at a relatively constant power setting (usually near 100%) to simplify torque compensation, among other things.

 

My next video will either be a live commentary tutorial or an attempt at a "solo display."

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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Man, you're nuts :D A ruddy loop in an Mi-8!? If I tried that I'd just get my undies in a knot before crashing...

 

Oh, trust me, sometimes even I get nausea while performing low altitude stuff.

 

Going over the top of a loop thinking you're wings level, only to find the horizon tilted 45 degrees when it comes into view is extremely disorienting, to say the least. Can't imagine doing this in VR.


Edited by Pocket Sized

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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Correction on the loop: entry speed should be 200 kmh at most. Above that, it becomes difficult to keep G loads under control on the initial pull. Minimum entry speed is about 100, but you REALLY have to milk the engines, and end up recovering at less than 10m AGL.


Edited by Pocket Sized

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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  • 2 weeks later...

[YouTube]a9Ebv0XSgc0?t=20s

 

Introducing: the quick stop!

 

I haven't had but a few hours to practice with it so far, but it looks like this maneuver has a lot of potential!

 

To do the quick stop, enter at 75-150 IAS and at least 20m radar altitude. Pull the cyclic all the way back. At about 60°, push full forward cyclic, the goal is to hit exactly 90° before pitching back down (this may change depending on entry conditions). If you push too early (nose stops below 90°) you will gain altitude and not come to a complete stop. If you push too late and go PAST 90°, the aircraft will begin dropping rapidly and you'll probably VRS into the ground.

 

The collective should be adjusted as necessary to maintain rotor RPM, but usually you can get away with leaving it in place until nearly horizontal, adding a bit to maintain a stable hover.

 

Once I get home, I will experiment with higher entry speeds, lower altitudes, and higher gross weights. (Who knows, maybe this can be used in tactical situations?)

DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule.

 

In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.

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