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Old 09-18-2019, 11:52 AM   #21
QuiGon
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That's different than the realism argument.
It is indeed. It was a reply to your comment about advantages. The realism argument is different and bigger.


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Now let's talk advantage. Theres a potential coordination advantage, but theres a much, much bigger disadvantage in that the pilot doesn't see the DDD. That could be put on an export view though, so the pilot (to effectively use the radar) needs all the controls and displays to go with it at his disposal. You are now looking at task saturation, and my guess is that this is more of a liability than anything in multiplayer.


Seriously, go try it. It's not going to work out well trying to play both seats at once. I've tried this in SP because I have two computers/accounts/modules. It was a nightmare trying to donsimple stuff. Voice attack with Jester is much much better.


Someone in an F-15 will have a far easier time of A2A because that plane was designed with single seat operation in mind.
So, basically what you're saying is, that there is no point in having this over Jester. Fine with me.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:19 PM   #22
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I hope you can't do this in MP. I wish that stuff was totally locked out.

It will be, once Jester Lantirn comes out. We let it run until then, because it would disable the pilot lantirn mod, which for now we think is still very useful for singleplayer. in general we want to avoid reach back functionality though, else we could have spared the development of Jester.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:44 PM   #23
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It will be, once Jester Lantirn comes out. We let it run until then, because it would disable the pilot lantirn mod, which for now we think is still very useful for singleplayer. in general we want to avoid reach back functionality though, else we could have spared the development of Jester.
Much appreciated
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:42 PM   #24
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It is indeed. It was a reply to your comment about advantages. The realism argument is different and bigger.



So, basically what you're saying is, that there is no point in having this over Jester. Fine with me.

There is a point, for those that want options, dont have voice attack, etc.
Just because something isnt the easiest way to do it doesn't mean there isnt any reason to do it.


At the end of the day, no pilot control of RIO pit will ever be better than a competent human RIO controlling that seat.
So long as the mod doesn't give the aircraft capabilities it didnt have and doesn't make it more effective than a fully crewed aircraft, I dont see a problem with it, from either the realism sense (because we make far greater realism sacrifices for sake of gameplay) or from an "exploit" perspective.


Trying to compare these mods with exploits and cheating is outright ridiculous. Just like the crybabies who call everything "assault." If everything is assault, then assault starts to not be very significant.


If this is an exploit, then exploits start to not be considered much of a problem.

Last edited by Dino Might; 09-18-2019 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:47 PM   #25
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It will be, once Jester Lantirn comes out. We let it run until then, because it would disable the pilot lantirn mod, which for now we think is still very useful for singleplayer. in general we want to avoid reach back functionality though, else we could have spared the development of Jester.

I'm sad to see this change coming down the pike. Nonetheless, it will remain my favorite module to-date.


I think Jester is absolutely necessary for single crew ops, regardless of how much reach through control is allowed.


To all who are saying this shouldnt be allowed, how much of these capabilities using reach through control have you tried? Any experience with it in single or multiplayer? Or just assumptions on how it adversely affects gameplay?

Last edited by Dino Might; 09-18-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 08:04 PM   #26
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To all who are saying this shouldnt be allowed, how much of these capabilities using reach through control have you tried? Any experience with it in single or multiplayer? Or just assumptions on how it adversely affects gameplay?
It just really speeds up what should be a 2 man operation, but probably not much more or the same as a really good Pilot/RIO combo so not a big deal really, but def not how the module was intended to be played.
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Old 09-18-2019, 08:10 PM   #27
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To all who are saying this shouldnt be allowed, how much of these capabilities using reach through control have you tried? Any experience with it in single or multiplayer? Or just assumptions on how it adversely affects gameplay?
That's the point - we don't use it because we don't want it available in the sim! It's like asking for game mode in MP and when someone is against it, asking him if he even uses it to see how it affects the play.

In esport terms think of korean level and what people can do if only they get their hands on it.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:49 PM   #28
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That's the point - we don't use it because we don't want it available in the sim! It's like asking for game mode in MP and when someone is against it, asking him if he even uses it to see how it affects the play.

In esport terms think of korean level and what people can do if only they get their hands on it.

Pretty outrageous comparison.
Anyone flying any of the helicopters other than Ka50 is doing the exact same thing, and FC3 planes are far worse offenders in terms of "game mode" features.


So without any knowledge of how it works, you are passing judgement comparing it to exploitive "esports" practices in arcade games. Give me a bleepin' break.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:56 PM   #29
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It just really speeds up what should be a 2 man operation, but probably not much more or the same as a really good Pilot/RIO combo so not a big deal really, but def not how the module was intended to be played.

Using Jester with voice attack is much easier. I personally dont use this mod, having tried it and realized it's just more difficult to deal with than the current setup, but I see it being useful without voice attack.


Two man crew will be much more effective, assuming comparable skill levels in the 1 w/ mid vs 2.
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Old 09-19-2019, 01:51 AM   #30
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Using Jester with voice attack is much easier. I personally dont use this mod, having tried it and realized it's just more difficult to deal with than the current setup, but I see it being useful without voice attack.


Two man crew will be much more effective, assuming comparable skill levels in the 1 w/ mid vs 2.
Agree to disagree on the voice thing
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