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P51 not fun due to so many problems.


Snapage

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Yes I have flown the P51D with low fuel. It performs much better but it still has no chance vs a 109K4 pilot that can do more then just a horizontal turn or knows how to use thier flaps. I think making WEP useable without engine failure(if used for 5 mins or less at a time) would be enough but this plane has more problems then just fight performance vs K4. I am not sure if I would want a more powerful P51D but I do want a P51D that can use WEP reliably.

 

109K has 3400 kg and 16 m2 of wing. Mustang has 22 m2 and 4300 kg. What power must it have to compare to 109?

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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109K has 3400 kg and 16 m2 of wing. Mustang has 22 m2 and 4300 kg. What power must it have to compare to 109?

 

I am not asking for a faster P51D, I am expressing why I am finding it to be

no fun to fly. I would be happy with the WEP being usable without engine failure and the guns to be effective vs the german planes when shooting them from behind.

 

It is very frustrating when german planes can absorb so much fire from behind and escape while your engine is taken out immediately from one burst from the german planes.

 

I have most of the aircraft, I fly all of them so I am not interested in one being better then everything else. But the P51D is very frustrating.

 

I can tell when I am going too fast in the other planes, just not the P51D. I can also crash land in the other planes without the pilot dieing. I can also reliably shoot down enemy aircraft with the other planes. Just not the P51D, its guns dont do much from behind.


Edited by Snapage
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How do you run away when the enemy planes are faster then you? I have not said anything about surviving every fight. I have said that the P51D is not fun to fly(in combat).

 

I have been flying the DCS mustang for four years now. I know all the tricks and they are not good enough. You are always at a massive dissadvantage vs the 109K4. WEP would probably be enough to allow you to get away from the K4 but you can't use it without engine failure so it kind of defeats the purpose.

 

Well, you can do it with WEP. Even if you then have a chance to have a broken engine, it is better than being shot down.

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Well, you can do it with WEP. Even if you then have a chance to have a broken engine, it is better than being shot down.

 

Is it better? You will probably be shot down anyway after your engine stops because of WEP. Happened to me plenty. I just don't use WEP at all. It does more harm then good.

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You could always fly the 109.

I fly all the planes except the FW190A8, I don't have it. The 109 is fun vs spitfires but to easy vs P51Ds. It's not rewarding shooting down P51Ds in the 109K4 because it's super easy. I like to out fly the other player not derp them down in a superior aircraft.

 

I find I have a better chance in the I16 vs the K4 then I do in the P51D, no exaggeration.

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109K has 3400 kg and 16 m2 of wing. Mustang has 22 m2 and 4300 kg. What power must it have to compare to 109?

 

2300hp would be good :) 90" + water.

i think 25lbs(80"MP) spitfire IX would make nice pain for bf109 pilots.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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It all depends on the pilot. When you encounter a good pilot, it's not easy. When you encounter a less good pilot, it's "easy".

 

 

Does not matter how good they are, just keep your speed up and use the vertical until they are out of energy and then kill them. Once you are behind them there is nothing they can do, its only a matter of time until you shoot them down.

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You realise in a straight 1v1 it's entirely possible for the smaller, lighter 109 to be a superior aircraft? The Mustang was not a bad fightwe, but it was far from the best. The USAF won via weight of numbers and attrition the Luftwaffe couldn't afford. Also, all this fighting was done near the service ceiling, aside from mass raids on airfields, neither of which is the case here.

 

Let's say you get what you want and the Mustang is faster and better turning... ok then Mustangs club 109s? Or what? Then you'll cry about that?

 

All things being equal, two competent pilots, the one with the superior aircraft will win consistently unless he makes a mistake, that's to be expected.

 

There is no balancing here. It isn't ''this plane is faster but this one is more maneuverable'' or ''this one gets a +10 to defense against fire''. You also cannot make blanket statements like ''Mustang superior vs 109'' because some guy said so. What models and what conditions of the fight influences such things.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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Does not matter how good they are, just keep your speed up and use the vertical until they are out of energy and then kill them. Once you are behind them there is nothing they can do, its only a matter of time until you shoot them down.

 

It does. For example if the Pony forces you to make fast approaches, it can outmaneuver you there and probably dodge you forever until you run out of ammo or fuel.

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It does. For example if the Pony forces you to make fast approaches, it can outmaneuver you there and probably dodge you forever until you run out of ammo or fuel.

 

 

I don't understand what you mean by forcing the 109 to fly fast? A K4 can sit right on the ass of a P51 and stay there. There is nothing the P51 can do.

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You realise in a straight 1v1 it's entirely possible for the smaller, lighter 109 to be a superior aircraft? The Mustang was not a bad fightwe, but it was far from the best. The USAF won via weight of numbers and attrition the Luftwaffe couldn't afford. Also, all this fighting was done near the service ceiling, aside from mass raids on airfields, neither of which is the case here.

 

Let's say you get what you want and the Mustang is faster and better turning... ok then Mustangs club 109s? Or what? Then you'll cry about that?

 

All things being equal, two competent pilots, the one with the superior aircraft will win consistently unless he makes a mistake, that's to be expected.

 

There is no balancing here. It isn't ''this plane is faster but this one is more maneuverable'' or ''this one gets a +10 to defense against fire''. You also cannot make blanket statements like ''Mustang superior vs 109'' because some guy said so. What models and what conditions of the fight influences such things.

 

 

Don't know who you are replying to, but I never asked for a faster P51D. I have mentioned a culmination of issues that really make the P51D frustrating to fly compared to the other aircraft.

 

 

 

I don't want a faster P51D I would like WEP to be usable without engine failure though. I would also like to be able to do emergency gear up landings without the pilot dieing, the P51's guns to be more effective when shooting enemy planes from behind and some sort of indication that the plane is about to fall apart without having to stare at the gauges would be nice.

 

 

 

German planes can absorb a lot of fire from the P51D from behind and still fly back to base damaged at a faster speed then the undamaged pursuing P51D. But the flip side is the P51D's engine is taken out upon taking any damage from pursuing German aircraft most of the time.

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Is it better? You will probably be shot down anyway after your engine stops because of WEP. Happened to me plenty. I just don't use WEP at all. It does more harm then good.

I never had an engine breakdown and I use WEP when I need it. Of course if you are talking about pure 1v1 without fronts, aaa zones to retreat to or friendly / enemy wigmen, then of course, depending on altitude the 109 will eventually catch you. If he doesn't run out of fuel first.

 

Fortunately air warfare is more than 1vs1 jousting.

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I never had an engine breakdown and I use WEP when I need it. Of course if you are talking about pure 1v1 without fronts, aaa zones to retreat to or friendly / enemy wigmen, then of course, depending on altitude the 109 will eventually catch you. If he doesn't run out of fuel first.

 

Fortunately air warfare is more than 1vs1 jousting.

 

Good for you that your engine never breaks down, I don't know how because I have tested WEP in the P51D a ton of times trying to figure out how to use it without engine failure and so far I have found that you can't. Once you go WEP the engine will fail at some point. My guess is that you don't fly the P51D much or that you only fly for short periods of time(20 to 30mins) per flight.

 

BTW you have to be at critical altitude for WEP to do anything.

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Snapage, that's fine, any missing/broken stuff should of course be fixed. Goes without saying. My comment was more general in reference to the very common notion that Mustangs were the bees knees when in reality they were effective but not terribly outstanding in any given category but range and good looks.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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I am not asking for a faster P51D, I am expressing why I am finding it to be

no fun to fly. I would be happy with the WEP being usable without engine failure and the guns to be effective vs the german planes when shooting them from behind.

 

It is very frustrating when german planes can absorb so much fire from behind and escape while your engine is taken out immediately from one burst from the german planes.

 

I have most of the aircraft, I fly all of them so I am not interested in one being better then everything else. But the P51D is very frustrating.

 

I can tell when I am going too fast in the other planes, just not the P51D. I can also crash land in the other planes without the pilot dieing. I can also reliably shoot down enemy aircraft with the other planes. Just not the P51D, its guns dont do much from behind.

 

There are a lot of video of P-51 online that do not match your description of this plane. For example:

 

 

P-51 guns are a bit different thing in comparison to German. They are wing mounted, and the best pattern is 200-350 m distance. If the target is closer or farther you have to remember how the projectile fly actually.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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There are a lot of video of P-51 online that do not match your description of this plane. For example:

 

 

P-51 guns are a bit different thing in comparison to German. They are wing mounted, and the best pattern is 200-350 m distance. If the target is closer or farther you have to remember how the projectile fly actually.

 

I can't recall if this has been commented on before but . . . my understanding of the ammunition used in the P-51 was primarily armor piercing incendiary (API) - is this the ammunition modelled? It can make a big difference if it is only modelled as AP only. Especially for the new damage model upcoming.

 

Thanks,

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always blows my mind how literally the same people complain about the same thing. P51 is as dominant as your understanding and skill set of the airframe allows. Blown engines in wep? Never had that issue. May i suggest folks work on airmanship and gunfighting....:pilotfly:

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There are a lot of video of P-51 online that do not match your description of this plane. For example:

 

 

P-51 guns are a bit different thing in comparison to German. They are wing mounted, and the best pattern is 200-350 m distance. If the target is closer or farther you have to remember how the projectile fly actually.

 

Yeah, you can shoot them down while shooting at them from above or the side but they seem almost invulnerable from behind when running away. The only way to shoot the 109 down from behind seems to be by shooting the tail enough so that it comes off completely. Even from the side and top you need to hit the engine, get a pilot kill or shoot them enough in the same place to make that part come off completely, like a wing or the tail. It's not unusual to see a conga line of P51s shooting and chasing a smoking 109 back to their base. It's also not unusual to shoot up a 109 to the point that they are smoking and have them continue to fight, shoot someone down and then fly back to base.

 

The P51D on the other hand loses its engine, even bursts into flames when hit from directly behind from other aircraft.


Edited by Snapage
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Yeah, you can shoot them down while shooting at them from above or the side but they seem almost invulnerable from behind when running away. The only way to shoot the 109 down from behind seems to be by shooting the tail enough so that it comes off completely. Even from the side and top you need to hit the engine, get a pilot kill or shoot them enough in the same place to make that part come off completely, like a wing or the tail.

 

 

 

The P51D on the other loses its engine, even bursts into flames when hit from directly behind from other aircraft.

This isn't so much a Mustang issue as it is a damage model issue, which is widely known to be lacking. Of course, there is a revamp in progress

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always blows my mind how literally the same people complain about the same thing. P51 is as dominant as your understanding and skill set of the airframe allows. Blown engines in wep? Never had that issue. May i suggest folks work on airmanship and gunfighting....:pilotfly:

 

Do you fly often? What is your name in DCS? Do you fly the P51D much? Do you fly multiplayer? You talk as if you know better then everyone but I don't recognise your name.

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Do you fly often? What is your name in DCS? Do you fly the P51D much? Do you fly multiplayer? You talk as if you know better then everyone but I don't recognise your name.

 

Oh, i know why is that, most ppl dont fly p-51 even less fly MP,but when they read about wep problem, they will jump in to quick mission engage wep check it for 2-3 minutes(what are they talking about everything is fine!!) then quickly exit sesion, after this they come back and say i have never ever blow engine in p-51.

I have my engine blown numerous times(no it wasn't too high temp, i wil ltell you that in p-51 you can exceed coolant temp with no harm to the engine i did it couple of times but ppl who flies p-51 regulary should know that and they should not bring temps in the first place as reason for engine jamm after using wep), right now i engage wep only when i see my airfield and i am sure that i will glide back if engine jamm.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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  • ED Team
I can't recall if this has been commented on before but . . . my understanding of the ammunition used in the P-51 was primarily armor piercing incendiary (API) - is this the ammunition modelled? It can make a big difference if it is only modelled as AP only. Especially for the new damage model upcoming.

 

Thanks,

 

Yes, the new model incorporates armour plates and the effect of the armour penetration is calculated. The old one bullets have less differencies.

Anyway, the real effect of the bullets is noticable less except they hit critical zones.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Oh, i know why is that, most ppl dont fly p-51 even less fly MP,but when they read about wep problem, they will jump in to quick mission engage wep check it for 2-3 minutes(what are they talking about everything is fine!!) then quickly exit sesion, after this they come back and say i have never ever blow engine in p-51.

I have my engine blown numerous times(no it wasn't too high temp, i wil ltell you that in p-51 you can exceed coolant temp with no harm to the engine i did it couple of times but ppl who flies p-51 regulary should know that and they should not bring temps in the first place as reason for engine jamm after using wep), right now i engage wep only when i see my airfield and i am sure that i will glide back if engine jamm.

I use WEP in 1 hour long flights. No problems so far as long as you don't surpass 5 min active time and you nurse your temps. Maybe I'm lucky, dunno.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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