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Why is this thing so slow?


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u guys all missed the point here。p51 is slow in relative terms. When u have k4 and d9 rite next to it then yes. This goes back to the game balance issue. Cuz this so called simulation cannot simulate every aspect of the real life such as late war german pilot quality, fuel quality and quantity, maintenance, mechanical reliability so people r frustrated to realize there is essentially no allied planes can go head to head with these late war German puppies. If p51 feels slow, other planes p47, p38 will fair even worse. With planned me262, this tilted scale will become even more imbalanced. This is after all a game, not true sim.

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It is sim, but only plane sim, not whole warfare simulator.

Still p-51 is fast enough to dust off some k-4s from its tail.

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  • 1 month later...
u guys all missed the point here。p51 is slow in relative terms. When u have k4 and d9 rite next to it then yes. This goes back to the game balance issue. Cuz this so called simulation cannot simulate every aspect of the real life such as late war german pilot quality, fuel quality and quantity, maintenance, mechanical reliability so people r frustrated to realize there is essentially no allied planes can go head to head with these late war German puppies. If p51 feels slow, other planes p47, p38 will fair even worse. With planned me262, this tilted scale will become even more imbalanced. This is after all a game, not true sim.

 

What would make this a "true sim"?

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What would make this a "true sim"?

 

With respect to WWII, DCS does a decent job of simulating individual aircraft but from an overall simulation of WWII aerial warfare, DCS falls down completely. Content is not developed with any thought to re-creating historical match ups on appropriate maps.

 

That doesn't mean you can't have a good time but one must use one's imagination quite a bit.

 

As to the P-38J-25 or L, it would be a stellar competitor. Its acceleration was the best of any US fighter in the war and it can certainly win a knife fight against any of the current crop of aircraft. Its faults were all things not simulated (and mostly corrected in the J and later) except for the .68 Mach limit.


Edited by pmiceli

 

 

 

 

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1943/44 allied planes vs 1944/45 luftwaffe planes. That is his point, and it is a fair point even if he expressed it poorly.

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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With respect to WWII, DCS does a decent job of simulating individual aircraft but from an overall simulation of WWII aerial warfare, DCS falls down completely. Content is not developed with any thought to re-creating historical match ups on appropriate maps.

 

I think the Normandy map is a pretty good recreation...

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As to the P-38J-25 or L, it would be a stellar competitor. Its acceleration was the best of any US fighter in the war and it can certainly win a knife fight against any of the current crop of aircraft. Its faults were all things not simulated (and mostly corrected in the J and later) except for the .68 Mach limit.

 

I've been messing around with the P38 in the "other" WWII simulator and I definitely struggle against AI, even the Bf109E....Once it's on my tail I can't get it off. Im probably flying it wrong?

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I've been messing around with the P38 in the "other" WWII simulator and I definitely struggle against AI, even the Bf109E....Once it's on my tail I can't get it off. Im probably flying it wrong?

 

The assumption is that ED will accurately model the P38. This is not necessarily the case in other titles.

 

For example, any aircraft that does not retain sufficient elevator authority near the 1 G stall speed would be extremely hazardous to fly. Yet, one can find multiple aircraft in other titles that have flight models that allow full back stick without producing a true aerodynamic stall.

 

 

 

 

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For example, any aircraft that does not retain sufficient elevator authority near the 1 G stall speed would be extremely hazardous to fly. Yet, one can find multiple aircraft in other titles that have flight models that allow full back stick without producing a true aerodynamic stall.

 

???

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Just curious, have you any experience with a sim that contains everything you wish it had? I mean accurate flight models, maps, aircraft specific to the era, etc..

 

Perfection doesn't exist. As with anything, greater attention to one aspect costs attention in another.

 

Other games focus more on number of aircraft at the expense of simplified modeling. DCS focuses virtually all attention on the mechanical minutae, currently at the expense of many other categories. It's just reality, nobody has an infinite budget or infinite time, you gotta draw a line somewhere.

 

Regarding some previous titles that did things better in some categories, even if trying to model aircraft accurately, the technology of the day simply did not allow for it to be done to the same extent it is today.

 

 

As one dev put it, in an environment where it can take 3-5 yeard to see a plane from start to finish, it's less important whether the plane is ''appropriate'' as it is that the team is enthusiastic enough to spend that much time working on ONE thing.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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Perfection doesn't exist. As with anything, greater attention to one aspect costs attention in another.

 

Other games focus more on number of aircraft at the expense of simplified moding. DCS focuses virtually all attention on the mechanical minutae, currently at the expense of many other categories. It's just reality, nobody has an infinite budget or infinite time, you gotta draw a line somewhere.

 

Eh that's debatable. Perfection does exist it just depends on where you apply it. I can be perfect at paying my bills or brushing my teeth ha. I get what you're saying though but that doesn't mean you can't strive for the best possible experience. I think in the early days of DCS, a lot of attention was paid to the mechanical side of things but now with their increase in manpower, perhaps budget, experience, etc we are seeing their abilities to branch out and "perfect" other aspects that entail a combat sim.

 

When we start criticizing the small details like elevator control at 1g, then IMO that becomes a little ridiculous.

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When we start criticizing the small details like elevator control at 1g, then IMO that becomes a little ridiculous.

 

Perhaps you do not understand what I am referring to with regard to elevator control.

 

If you run out of elevator control authority prior to the 1 G stall speed with the aircraft in the planned center of gravity envelope, the aircraft is extremely hazardous to land in the real world.

 

No one would fly such a thing, yet we find this behavior is commonplace in other titles. It is indicative of a basic misunderstanding of airplanes in general.

 

It isn't a "ridiculous" detail. It is a fundamental mistake.

 

 

 

 

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Perhaps you do not understand what I am referring to with regard to elevator control.

 

If you run out of elevator control authority prior to the 1 G stall speed with the aircraft in the planned center of gravity envelope, the aircraft is extremely hazardous to land in the real world.

 

No one would fly such a thing, yet we find this behavior is commonplace in other titles. It is indicative of a basic misunderstanding of airplanes in general.

 

It isn't a "ridiculous" detail. It is a fundamental mistake.

 

I'll admit I don't understand it quite as much a you do obviously which is fine with me but now you're making the assumption that ED developers now have a basic misunderstanding of airplanes in general.. seems to be a tad unfair. How would you correct this behavior and make it more "real world"?

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Perhaps you do not understand what I am referring to with regard to elevator control.

 

If you run out of elevator control authority prior to the 1 G stall speed with the aircraft in the planned center of gravity envelope, the aircraft is extremely hazardous to land in the real world.

 

No one would fly such a thing, yet we find this behavior is commonplace in other titles. It is indicative of a basic misunderstanding of airplanes in general.

 

It isn't a "ridiculous" detail. It is a fundamental mistake.

 

I really can't make sense of these statements of yours. Stall speed has nothing to do with G loading. Stall speed is the speed at which an aerofoil stops producing lift, or whenever a critical angle of attack is exceeded.

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I'll admit I don't understand it quite as much a you do obviously which is fine with me but now you're making the assumption that ED developers now have a basic misunderstanding of airplanes in general.. seems to be a tad unfair. How would you correct this behavior and make it more "real world"?

 

I think if you re-read the thread more carefully you will find that I was not disparaging ED's flight modeling. Quite the opposite. ED is easily the best in this department.

 

 

 

The assumption is that ED will accurately model the P38. This is not necessarily the case in other titles.

 

For example, any aircraft that does not retain sufficient elevator authority near the 1 G stall speed would be extremely hazardous to fly. Yet, one can find multiple aircraft in other titles that have flight models that allow full back stick without producing a true aerodynamic stall.

 

 

 

 

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I really can't make sense of these statements of yours. Stall speed has nothing to do with G loading. Stall speed is the speed at which an aerofoil stops producing lift, or whenever a critical angle of attack is exceeded.

 

Actually, critical angle of attack is the sole determinant in stall.

 

The speed at which an airfoil reaches this critical angle of attack is a function of the load factor(measured in G) applied and the relationship is well known.

 

Any aircraft will stall at a speed equal to its stall speed at 1G multiplied by the square root of the current G.

 

Thus, the stall speed at 4 G is twice the 1 G stall speed.

 

accelerated-stall-speed.webp

 

 

 

 

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Yes I get all that, but Im not sure what you are trying to say. That it's impossible to stall airplanes in other simulations?

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Yes I get all that, but Im not sure what you are trying to say. That it's impossible to stall airplanes in other simulations?

 

Yes. Sometimes it is. More specifically, due to incorrectly modeled elevator authority, it is impossible to achieve aerodynamic stall at 1 G. This improper lack of elevator authority means the rest of the maneuvering performance is highly suspect.

 

The moral of the story is this. Do not use another title to make assumptions about how a particular aircraft may or may not perform in DCS.

 

 

 

 

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Stall speed depends on G load.

For example when plane is doing loop, when plane is on top of the loop where G load is about 0 you can still pull the stick w/o stall even when you are below level flight stall speed.

So G load influence stall speed a lot. Like it was said stall happen at critical AOA but you can have stall at various speeds because increased G load require higher AOA then in level flight.

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