How do the Mig-15 multiplayer aces beat the Sabre jocks?

I would love to learn from the multiplayer Mig-15 aces. How do the Mig-15 multiplayer aces beat the Sabre jocks? Please provide as many details as possible. It will help your lesser and least experienced fellow Mig pilots out greatly. Please post any tips, tricks, or tactics, you employ. Thank you for your consideration of my question and concerns.

S!

Well if you can, get the 86 jocks up as high as you can because from what I've read the 15 does much better at higher altitudes than the 86.

Chief

:smartass:

Well if you can, get the 86 jocks up as high as you can because from what I've read the 15 does much better at higher altitudes than the 86.

 

Chief

Hey Chief Red Cloud! I took your advice and did just that, tonight. I climbed out and drove a two ship nuts, by sticking to a 710 kph climb. Afterward, I was lectured by one of the squad mates for being a chicken. Gee, sorry for climbing away in a plane known for a relative superior climb rate when I could be knife fighting a superlative air superiority fighter with my point defense interceptor.

My thinking was this, my plane was primarily designed to shoot down recons and bombers. I didn't see any bombers or recons. The Sabre is a fighter, pure and simple. The Sabre is either going to get the upper hand in a furball or it is going to dive away and extend, one or the other. I could not take the Sabre two ship by surprise, reliably down one with my cannons, and ensure that I could climb away. The Mig doesn't have great elevator authority, so pulling out of a dive, without telling go of some or not all of my altitude advantage was a big concern. It only made sense for my Mig to attack if I was sim flying one of the Sabre Jets. Otherwise, the mission and situation didn't give me a good reason to attack. I didn't.

I then realized something fundamental about the Sabre and Fagot match up and I related it to this peeved fellow. I noted that it is rather fool hearty for me to engage a Sabre two ship, fully aware of my presence, when I can opt to climb away. Were I to commit to a fight and it ended up with some manner of rolling scissors or what not, one or other of the Sabre would either get the upper hand or dive way, climb back up and while his partner was having a go at me, engage me once again. Unless I maintain a rather high speed or maintain a sizable altitude advantage, I would not be able to pull off my sustained 710 kph climb out and reliably get away, that is unless the Sabre chaps were kind enough to allow for such. I thought they would not be so kind. :megalol:

To get away from a determined Sabre pilot requires the Mig to go up. To go up, in such a way that the Sabre can't follow, is sometimes easier said than done, especially during a knife fight. To pull off a climbing getaway is not nearly as easy, in a furball, as is a diving getaway. A Mig pilot is best off making a climbing get away before a furball happens, not during one.

:thumbup: MJ

Yep, definitely work to your strengths and their weaknesses. If they don't like what you're doing, then you're obviously doing it right!

Hey mjmorrow! Yep, altitude is your best friend. The MiG-15bis can go higher than the Sabre. Try climbing to 52.000ft and more. The Sabre cannot reach your maximum altitude - you are in a safe "perch" up there. Also, fly at a high mach number. This way you can pretty much dictate when you start your attack as you always have the height and speed advantage on your first run and you may be lucky to come up unseen behind some Sabres. After you start your attack you can now try a "hit & run" tactic and pull up again to a height well beyond the Sabre´s reach or you can try maneuvering with them. I would say the MiG-15bis turns better than the F-86F until you reach approx. 35.000ft. Below that altitude the Sabre quickly starts gaining on you. That does not mean the MiG-15 turns bad, however. Flying around 650 km/h at 10.000ft you can pull as much as 11Gs if you do it right. And always be aware of the tremendous range of your cannons. You can get some well aimed deadly hits at a traget nearly 3000ft out. Some other things about the F-86F: the Sabre has a slight speed advantage over the MiG and has a big advantage in a dive. The Sabre is heavier and can pick up speed much quicker than the MiG. So do not try getting one in a steep dive with your MiG at high speed and full power. You might loose your aircraft this way.

If you do have to fight at 35.000ft and below you need to rely on better tactics than those Sabre jocks (this is always applicable, though...). It would be preferable to have a wingman with you so you can depend on mutual support. Learn maneuvers like the "Reverse Turn", "Scissors", "YoYo" and "Diving Spiral". Be prepared to do something unconventional in combat, think ahead and have a "Last Ditch" maneuver at hand. Always check your airspeed to be in your best maneuvering zone (600-650 km/h). Sounds like "No Guts - No Glory" by Frederick C. Blesse? Right! Read that manual on ACM tacticts by every means. If you learn the right maneuvers at the right time you will start improving your skills considerably. You will then also be able to judge how good those Sabre jocks fly their aircraft and take advantage on any mistakes on their part. Practice makes perfect. Know every aspect of your MiG-15´s advantages and especially those disadvantages. You WILL get better...

Yep, definitely work to your strengths and their weaknesses. If they don't like what you're doing, then you're obviously doing it right!

Hey mjmorrow! Yep, altitude is your best friend. The MiG-15bis can go higher than the Sabre. Try climbing to 52.000ft and more. The Sabre cannot reach your maximum altitude - you are in a safe "perch" up there. Also, fly at a high mach number. This way you can pretty much dictate when you start your attack as you always have the height and speed advantage on your first run and you may be lucky to come up unseen behind some Sabres. After you start your attack you can now try a "hit & run" tactic and pull up again to a height well beyond the Sabre´s reach or you can try maneuvering with them. I would say the MiG-15bis turns better than the F-86F until you reach approx. 35.000ft. Below that altitude the Sabre quickly starts gaining on you. That does not mean the MiG-15 turns bad, however. Flying around 650 km/h at 10.000ft you can pull as much as 11Gs if you do it right. And always be aware of the tremendous range of your cannons. You can get some well aimed deadly hits at a traget nearly 3000ft out. Some other things about the F-86F: the Sabre has a slight speed advantage over the MiG and has a big advantage in a dive. The Sabre is heavier and can pick up speed much quicker than the MiG. So do not try getting one in a steep dive with your MiG at high speed and full power. You might loose your aircraft this way.

 

If you do have to fight at 35.000ft and below you need to rely on better tactics than those Sabre jocks (this is always applicable, though...). It would be preferable to have a wingman with you so you can depend on mutual support. Learn maneuvers like the "Reverse Turn", "Scissors", "YoYo" and "Diving Spiral". Be prepared to do something unconventional in combat, think ahead and have a "Last Ditch" maneuver at hand. Always check your airspeed to be in your best maneuvering zone (600-650 km/h). Sounds like "No Guts - No Glory" by Frederick C. Blesse? Right! Read that manual on ACM tacticts by every means. If you learn the right maneuvers at the right time you will start improving your skills considerably. You will then also be able to judge how good those Sabre jocks fly their aircraft and take advantage on any mistakes on their part. Practice makes perfect. Know every aspect of your MiG-15´s advantages and especially those disadvantages. You WILL get better...

Nice. I am going to incorporate all of your advice into my future multiplayer ramps. This info is very helpful.

:thumbup: MJ

I seem to be able to beat the sabres, but when it comes to aiming im all over the place, trying to get the MiG to steady out and get guns on target is a real pain, any tips on how i could somewhat improve on this?

experiment with the saturation levels for your stick. Also, do not uncage the gunsight until you have a decent track on your target. Just uncage to get a final solution.

:thumbup:

Hey mjmorrow! Yep, altitude is your best friend. The MiG-15bis can go higher than the Sabre. Try climbing to 52.000ft and more. The Sabre cannot reach your maximum altitude - you are in a safe "perch" up there. Also, fly at a high mach number. This way you can pretty much dictate when you start your attack as you always have the height and speed advantage on your first run and you may be lucky to come up unseen behind some Sabres. After you start your attack you can now try a "hit & run" tactic and pull up again to a height well beyond the Sabre´s reach or you can try maneuvering with them. I would say the MiG-15bis turns better than the F-86F until you reach approx. 35.000ft. Below that altitude the Sabre quickly starts gaining on you. That does not mean the MiG-15 turns bad, however. Flying around 650 km/h at 10.000ft you can pull as much as 11Gs if you do it right. And always be aware of the tremendous range of your cannons. You can get some well aimed deadly hits at a traget nearly 3000ft out. Some other things about the F-86F: the Sabre has a slight speed advantage over the MiG and has a big advantage in a dive. The Sabre is heavier and can pick up speed much quicker than the MiG. So do not try getting one in a steep dive with your MiG at high speed and full power. You might loose your aircraft this way.

 

If you do have to fight at 35.000ft and below you need to rely on better tactics than those Sabre jocks (this is always applicable, though...). It would be preferable to have a wingman with you so you can depend on mutual support. Learn maneuvers like the "Reverse Turn", "Scissors", "YoYo" and "Diving Spiral". Be prepared to do something unconventional in combat, think ahead and have a "Last Ditch" maneuver at hand. Always check your airspeed to be in your best maneuvering zone (600-650 km/h). Sounds like "No Guts - No Glory" by Frederick C. Blesse? Right! Read that manual on ACM tacticts by every means. If you learn the right maneuvers at the right time you will start improving your skills considerably. You will then also be able to judge how good those Sabre jocks fly their aircraft and take advantage on any mistakes on their part. Practice makes perfect. Know every aspect of your MiG-15´s advantages and especially those disadvantages. You WILL get better...

To be honest I find it extremely easy to dogfight the F-86 in the MiG-15bis, I just try to keep my speed above 600 km/h and because of the MiG15's excellent energy retention, acceleration and insane climb rate (seriously it feels like its' got a rocket strapped to its back), I can even beat the F-86 in a sustained turn fight taking place mostly in the horizontal - and if he tries to yo yo with me he's dead.

The key to beating the F-86 in a horizontal turn fight with the MiG is to maintain a steady medium pull in pitch (do NOT pull until the aircraft buffets - it'll bleed all its' speed in no time), and dip the nose down abit now and then in the turn to keep the speed up. That way you can quite easily keep the speed above 600 km/h in the MiG and actually maintain a better STR than the Sabre. If you ever get below 500 km/h however don't despair, the MiG accelerates like a rocket, and it'll actually accelerate whilst pulling some Gs too.

Doesn't help the Sabre that its' guns are hopeless underpowered atm (something needs to be done about that, its' not realistic atm IMHO), which means that in the MiG you can also be abit more careless about crossing infront of it - whilst the Sabre only needs to be hit once or twice by that 37mm gun to get wrecked.

To be honest I find it extremely easy to dogfight the F-86 in the MiG-15bis, I just try to keep my speed above 600 km/h and because of the MiG15's excellent energy retention, acceleration and insane climb rate (seriously it feels like its' got a rocket strapped to its back), I can even beat the F-86 in a sustained turn fight taking place mostly in the horizontal - and if he tries to yo yo with me he's dead.

 

The key to beating the F-86 in a horizontal turn fight with the MiG is to maintain a steady medium pull in pitch (do NOT pull until the aircraft buffets - it'll bleed all its' speed in no time), and dip the nose down abit now and then in the turn to keep the speed up. That way you can quite easily keep the speed above 600 km/h in the MiG and actually maintain a better STR than the Sabre. If you ever get below 500 km/h however don't despair, the MiG accelerates like a rocket, and it'll actually accelerate whilst pulling some Gs too.

 

Doesn't help the Sabre that its' guns are hopeless underpowered atm (something needs to be done about that, its' not realistic atm IMHO), which means that in the MiG you can also be abit more careless about crossing infront of it - whilst the Sabre only needs to be hit once or twice by that 37mm gun to get wrecked.

I'm finding the opposite. I can disengage and restart the fight at will and almost each time the MiG makes a mistake in a climb or something, I can at least damage it. If the Sabre pilot tries to knife fight with you, then he's usually going to lose. The Sabre's combination of higher top speed and better maximum turn rate allow the Sabre pilot to disengage much more easily at almost anytime and there's little a MiG can do about it. I've managed to follow MiGs in gentle lag pursuits if they don't pull maximum G's. If they DO pull max G at the wrong time, you bet the Sabre can take the first few turns. If the F-86 is in lag pursuit as much as possible, it can even follow MiGs in a zoom climb. Most of my victories come from this. Patience.

If the Sabre pilot gets impatient, then he's likely to get shot down. Force him into a rolling scissors and slow it down to as slow as possible. Forcing the Sabre to slow down is the key to defeating a Sabre pilot who is willing to get slow too. Another great strategy in the MiG is to turn very widely and let the Sabre pilot think he can outturn you and then slowly pull harder as the fights slows down. I can't tell you how tempting it is to think you can outturn someone only to have them peel away. At this point the smart F-86 pilot will know just when to disengage and gain a tad bit of separation and altitude.

I have only done a few DogFights in the MiG 15 so my experience is rather low but wjhat I learned is that I better climb HIGH if the Sabre gets too close and no Sabre yet was ablt to shake me off, vice versa, if they are close to you you have a problem. The slower you go will make you a nice sitting duck if there is more than 1 Sabre around.

again, I am no A2A ace !!!

Bit

:smartass:

 

Hey Chief Red Cloud! I took your advice and did just that, tonight. I climbed out and drove a two ship nuts, by sticking to a 710 kph climb. Afterward, I was lectured by one of the squad mates for being a chicken. Gee, sorry for climbing away in a plane known for a relative superior climb rate when I could be knife fighting a superlative air superiority fighter with my point defense interceptor.

 

My thinking was this, my plane was primarily designed to shoot down recons and bombers. I didn't see any bombers or recons. The Sabre is a fighter, pure and simple. The Sabre is either going to get the upper hand in a furball or it is going to dive away and extend, one or the other. I could not take the Sabre two ship by surprise, reliably down one with my cannons, and ensure that I could climb away. The Mig doesn't have great elevator authority, so pulling out of a dive, without telling go of some or not all of my altitude advantage was a big concern. It only made sense for my Mig to attack if I was sim flying one of the Sabre Jets. Otherwise, the mission and situation didn't give me a good reason to attack. I didn't.

 

I then realized something fundamental about the Sabre and Fagot match up and I related it to this peeved fellow. I noted that it is rather fool hearty for me to engage a Sabre two ship, fully aware of my presence, when I can opt to climb away. Were I to commit to a fight and it ended up with some manner of rolling scissors or what not, one or other of the Sabre would either get the upper hand or dive way, climb back up and while his partner was having a go at me, engage me once again. Unless I maintain a rather high speed or maintain a sizable altitude advantage, I would not be able to pull off my sustained 710 kph climb out and reliably get away, that is unless the Sabre chaps were kind enough to allow for such. I thought they would not be so kind. :megalol:

 

To get away from a determined Sabre pilot requires the Mig to go up. To go up, in such a way that the Sabre can't follow, is sometimes easier said than done, especially during a knife fight. To pull off a climbing getaway is not nearly as easy, in a furball, as is a diving getaway. A Mig pilot is best off making a climbing get away before a furball happens, not during one.

 

:thumbup: MJ

In most MP combat sims I have played in, most of the fights are below 10,000 feet, usually lower. And most guys want to turn fight. Guys talk about wanting accurate simulator aircraft types and then do their fighting in no way as a real air combat scenario has occurred.

Yeah, "chicken"...

Whatever works to gain advantage and win the fight.

I have never much liked joining squads. There is too much BS.

There is a good sale currently, I am going to get the Mig-15. Been reading this forum for a heads up before I purchase it.