DCS: P-47D-30 Discussion

Yep, 11 minutes of pure power... till the water runs out.

 

Hopefully we get to manage the Turbo as well, I'd love to see a fully detailed P-47 where you actually have to FLY the aircraft.

If you manage the turbo in real life, you manage it in DCS. Failing to do so will certainly result in realistic/catastrophic consequences :D

Because this is an air cooled engine, I wonder if shock cooling will be implemented?

Actually, how on earth did Jug pilots do steep dives from 40,000 without shock cooling the engine? I guess they just closed the turbo lever and left the throttle at full?

Edit: The cowl flaps have a 220 mph limit for extension... seems like dogfighting will be pretty difficult without blowing the engine.

Because this is an air cooled engine, I wonder if shock cooling will be implemented?

 

Actually, how on earth did Jug pilots do steep dives from 40,000 without shock cooling the engine? I guess they just closed the turbo lever and left the throttle at full?

 

Edit: The cowl flaps have a 220 mph limit for extension... seems like dogfighting will be pretty difficult without blowing the engine.

They did it in real life so I'm sure we'll manage.

I just wish they'd release some news on it. At least just an acknowledgment that they are working on it.

They did it in real life so I'm sure we'll manage.

 

I just wish they'd release some news on it. At least just an acknowledgment that they are working on it.

Matt mentioned it in a Q&A a few days ago.

Because this is an air cooled engine, I wonder if shock cooling will be implemented?

 

Actually, how on earth did Jug pilots do steep dives from 40,000 without shock cooling the engine? I guess they just closed the turbo lever and left the throttle at full?

 

Edit: The cowl flaps have a 220 mph limit for extension... seems like dogfighting will be pretty difficult without blowing the engine.

Yep, keeping some power on the engine is more than enough to avoid schock cooling, now for the 220 limit on the cowl flpas, 220 wind its more than enough to keep your engine cool, P47 is far more forgiving than you think. That big radial engines gets cooles quite easily (as long as you have airspeed)

I would be more worried about overspeed and elevator compresability before shock cooling the engine

The question to ask is - was the 220 limit because the cowl flaps would get damaged or because you would overcool the engine?

 

I would be more worried about overspeed and elevator compresability before shock cooling the engine

Not sure it will be a big problem in the Jug. Bud Anderson talked about doing a dive at 700mph and it pulled out. Scared the hell out of him too.

This wasn't hearsay either. He said it in an interview.

They did it in real life so I'm sure we'll manage.

 

I just wish they'd release some news on it. At least just an acknowledgment that they are working on it.

Just saying, we're talking about an engine hat had P&W engineers laughing about the acceptance criteria the USAAF mandated.

"Oh, you want a few minutes of water injected WEP? No problem, we took this engine off the assembly line and ran it at WEP for over a day!"

From what I've been able to gather, the highest boost achieved on an R-2800C test was 150", where it produced 3800 hp.

I really want the P-47 to receive 70" boost, which was essentially what the D-30 was running at for most of its service life. If I don't have my timeline confused, the lowest possible maximum permissible boost was 65".

The question to ask is - was the 220 limit because the cowl flaps would get damaged or because you would overcool the engine?

The flaps would cause buffeting due to inducing turbulence over the tail surfaces.

Dont know if posted, but this Thunderbolt documentary, is on Netflix (Denmark at least), and not in 360p, like this YT version.

On Netflix its simply just called: Thunderbolt

Just saying, we're talking about an engine hat had P&W engineers laughing about the acceptance criteria the USAAF mandated.

 

"Oh, you want a few minutes of water injected WEP? No problem, we took this engine off the assembly line and ran it at WEP for over a day!"

 

From what I've been able to gather, the highest boost achieved on an R-2800C test was 150", where it produced 3800 hp.

 

I really want the P-47 to receive 70" boost, which was essentially what the D-30 was running at for most of its service life. If I don't have my timeline confused, the lowest possible maximum permissible boost was 65".

Yeah, the R-2800 is a monster of an engine. I'm hoping for 70" as well, every bit helps.

The flaps would cause buffeting due to inducing turbulence over the tail surfaces.

Oh, never conscidered that... but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining.

Dont know if posted, but this Thunderbolt documentary, is on Netflix (Denmark at least), and not in 360p, like this YT version.

 

 

On Netflix its simply just called: Thunderbolt

LOL thanks for the tip. We got it here in Germany :P

Dunno if it has been brought up in this monster of a thread, but something I would really to see for the DCS P-47, was custom Nose art. Its own 'little' texture/decal that we could replace.

So much cool nose art on the P-47's back in WWII.

That's actually a pretty nice idea, although I'd even take it a step further. ED already does some aircraft skins from specific aircraft with fixed BORT's and nose art, but also some with BORT's to be taken from the ME.

It would be a boon for us artistically challenged if you could not only apply nose art like a decal, but also pilot name and kill or mission trophies (swastikas, or "Balkenkreuz" insignia) like decals. At least name and kill indicators could easily be made as mono-color decals by nearly anybody, to be applied to their aircraft. It might even be possible to add them to the pilot's profile, so that any aircraft of the correct nationality would automatically have them applied. That would be awesome.

That's actually a pretty nice idea, although I'd even take it a step further. ED already does some aircraft skins from specific aircraft with fixed BORT's and nose art, but also some with BORT's to be taken from the ME.

 

It would be a boon for us artistically challenged if you could not only apply nose art like a decal, but also pilot name and kill or mission trophies (swastikas, or "Balkenkreuz" insignia) like decals. At least name and kill indicators could easily be made as mono-color decals by nearly anybody, to be applied to their aircraft. It might even be possible to add them to the pilot's profile, so that any aircraft of the correct nationality would automatically have them applied. That would be awesome.

Well, if I may interject here...

I've been working my skills actually on that, noseart with texturing.

Not really trying to ruin anyone game but I hope nobody minds me posting some examples, yes?

I mean if ED can't or will not provide that option I'll always be up to the test.

I'll spoiler the images for those who don't care :)

I can also provide screenshots in game, if interested. :)

Those are your original art?? Those are awesome... what do you charge, I need a a darksider pinup :)

 

FYI, I have submitted a feature request for noseart option in DCS, what becomes of it I dont know, but I am hopeful we get an option one day.

Yup, all created originally by me. :)

For that sorta talk we can go PM, if you don't mind... :P

Those are your original art?? Those are awesome... what do you charge, I need a a darksider pinup :)

 

FYI, I have submitted a feature request for noseart option in DCS, what becomes of it I dont know, but I am hopeful we get an option one day.

That will be a interesting "feature" :thumbup:

Just saying, we're talking about an engine hat had P&W engineers laughing about the acceptance criteria the USAAF mandated.

 

"Oh, you want a few minutes of water injected WEP? No problem, we took this engine off the assembly line and ran it at WEP for over a day!"

 

From what I've been able to gather, the highest boost achieved on an R-2800C test was 150", where it produced 3800 hp.

 

I really want the P-47 to receive 70" boost, which was essentially what the D-30 was running at for most of its service life. If I don't have my timeline confused, the lowest possible maximum permissible boost was 65".

Well I'm sure DCS's intentions of the P-47 are to advertise it as a ground attack aircraft :/. Which is fair since in late 1944 only 4 fighter groups were flying the P-47 while 2 were already in transitioning to the P-51. They also renamed the the DCS WW2 forum to 1944-1945 for obvious reasons. In 1945 only the 56FG were flying P-47s. So really only one FG from the 8th air force was using P-47 with 150 octane. So I highly doubt the P-47 will be rated for 70"Hg(2800hp). 64-65"Hg is more realistic for this era anyways.

Yeah without a doubt the P-47 was the best overclocker of the war. Unfortunately this can't be simulated for obvious reasons. But what would be fair is not having your engine die just because you spent an extra 10 seconds over the mandated time limits.

64"Hg is definitely confirmed

I hope it's as tough as the real P-47. You could shoot off a couple of cylinders and it would still fly home.

I hope it's as tough as the real P-47. You could shoot off a couple of cylinders and it would still fly home.

I wouldnt count on it. A K4's 30mm will.make.quick work of anything.

Well I'm sure DCS's intentions of the P-47 are to advertise it as a ground attack aircraft :/. Which is fair since in late 1944 only 4 fighter groups were flying the P-47 while 2 were already in transitioning to the P-51. They also renamed the the DCS WW2 forum to 1944-1945 for obvious reasons. In 1945 only the 56FG were flying P-47s. So really only one FG from the 8th air force was using P-47 with 150 octane. So I highly doubt the P-47 will be rated for 70"Hg(2800hp). 64-65"Hg is more realistic for this era anyways.

 

Yeah without a doubt the P-47 was the best overclocker of the war. Unfortunately this can't be simulated for obvious reasons. But what would be fair is not having your engine die just because you spent an extra 10 seconds over the mandated time limits.

 

64"Hg is definitely confirmed

The P-47D was cleared for 70" in June 1944: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/24june44-progress-report.pdf

Also, that performance increase was mostly useful at low altitude as at high alt, the turbo's RPM limit essentially capped maximum attainable boost.

Well I'm sure DCS's intentions of the P-47 are to advertise it as a ground attack aircraft :/. Which is fair since in late 1944 only 4 fighter groups were flying the P-47 while 2 were already in transitioning to the P-51. They also renamed the the DCS WW2 forum to 1944-1945 for obvious reasons. In 1945 only the 56FG were flying P-47s. So really only one FG from the 8th air force was using P-47 with 150 octane. So I highly doubt the P-47 will be rated for 70"Hg(2800hp). 64-65"Hg is more realistic for this era anyways.

 

Yeah without a doubt the P-47 was the best overclocker of the war. Unfortunately this can't be simulated for obvious reasons. But what would be fair is not having your engine die just because you spent an extra 10 seconds over the mandated time limits.

 

64"Hg is definitely confirmed

I found a great Thesis online that some may like to read here and has some good research and Comparisons, such as Maneuvering Performance Comparison of the P-47C Thunderbolt vs ME 109 Gustav Altitude 25,000 feet etc.

It's based against the 109 G models tho.

Interesting that a P-47 had the most air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe. So she's not just a ground attack now, I'm keen to do some boom and zooms on the 109s.

Quote

"In many cases, particularly late in the war, the German fighter pilot under attack would perform a split-S maneuver to dive away from combat, a maneuver that worked very well against opposing fighters early in the war. Such an action against a Thunderbolt, however, would be a deadly choice because the P-47, being very heavy and powered by a 2,000 horsepower engine could out-dive any other fighter in the sky.

Fighter Group 56, which flew the P-47 throughout the war and achieved more air-to-air victories than any other unit in Europe, was particularly adept at this strategy. The top scoring ace in the European Theater, Col. Frances Gabreski of the 56th, brought down 28 German aircraft with his Thunderbolt."

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-07022008-013657/unrestricted/courter_thesis.pdf

I'd be interested in which type of 109G it was. If that's versus a late G-6/14 with 1.7 ATA, a 2800 hp Thunderbolt would have a much larger speed range in which its energy maneuverability graph lets it sustain maneuvers against it.

Then again, I'm reasonably sure this is against a 109 running 1.42 ATA.