MiG-29S RADAR RANGE Bug Report

I would accept a 10% range increase to at least simulate the difference, doesn’t have to be exact just a little better than the 9-12

I hear you. I could accept a 10% decrease in the A and G's range, I guess.

Haha great point that also works!

I got to say, im having a tough time getting any range out of it. I can understand the A model being fairly poor, but even the S model with an upgraded radar its tough to find anything in BVR mode much beyond 15 klicks. I know about the range gate and the different radar modes, but it still feels difficult to get any decent range or BVR capability out of it.

 

 

Maybe this is perhaps a case for less including a modification to the radar, than perhaps a dedicated training mission for the Mig29? Id happily pay for a good training campaign for it if ED produced one.

Depends on target size. Small stuff like a drone won't show up until last minute. Light fighters aren't much better. Larger fighters should start showing up 30-40 usually, with cargo planes popping up around 50-60. It's a weapons guidance radar intended for direction by a gci. It is not a search radar.

Ummm...which real values? The sources you listed can't even agree on the range. Three claim 80 km (which we have in the sim), two claim 90, and one claims 100.

No

For F-15C in hot (+-4m2), with the N019M "Topaz" from the MiG-29S:

INGAME is ~70km range (because is a copy past for all radars values, MiG-29A,G,S. There is NO difference actually in DCS WORLD)

IN REAL is ~90km range.

Please have look on more russian website, you will see the real values for a "Fighters" for 3m2, 4m2 and 5m2 of radar wave reflection..

No

 

 

 

 

For F-15C in hot (+-4m2), with the N019M "Topaz" from the MiG-29S:

 

 

INGAME is ~70km range (because is a copy past for all radars values, MiG-29A,G,S. There is NO difference actually in DCS WORLD)

 

 

IN REAL is ~90km range.

 

 

Please have look on more russian website, you will see the real values for a "Fighters" for 3m2, 4m2 and 5m2 of radar wave reflection..

:) No. IN GAME is ~80km for F-15 hot. Just doublechecked this morning. Not 70.

IN REAL somewhere between 80-120. Take your pick. It depends on the source, Russian or otherwise.

MiG-29S has N019M and the MiG-29SE has the N019ME. N019ME is the slightly downgraded export variant of N019M. Do not confuse with that !

MiG-29A (Soviet Union/Russia) - N019 Sapfir

MiG-29B (Poland etc..) - N019EA Sapfir

MiG-29B (India etc..) - N019EB Sapfir

MiG-29B (India, Bangladesh) - N019ME Topaz

MiG-29SE (Peru) - N019ME Topaz

MiG-29S (Russia) - N019M Topaz

MiG-29K (India) - Zhuk ME

MiG-29M/M2 (Syria) - Zhuk ME

MiG-29SMT/UPG (India) - Zhuk ME

MiG-29K (Russia) - Zhuk M

and

"Maximum error in measurement of range with tracking in DRB mode ≤0.2 km

Maximum error in measurement of range in BMB (close combat mode) ≤0.05 km.

Maximum error in measurement of speed when tracked in DRB and BMB modes ≤ 10 m / s.

Maximum error in determination of direction when tracked in DRB and BMB modes ≤0.25 °"

Can confirm with reference 4 sq M (fighter size) is ~90km max detection range...

:) No. IN GAME is ~80km for F-15 hot. Just doublechecked this morning. Not 70.

 

IN REAL somewhere between 80-120. Take your pick. It depends on the source, Russian or otherwise.

I didn't test since last update, I'll..

MiG-29S has N019M and the MiG-29SE has the N019ME. N019ME is the slightly downgraded export variant of N019M. Do not confuse with that !

There is no really reliable information on the N019M performance(domestic or export) - only vague claims that its a bit better than the original N019 and has improved ECCM - supposedly in connection with the application of a more powerful data processor. But this is down to nitty-gritty stuff like improved signal to noise resolution - the basics of the radar(antenna type, -size and emitter output) remains the same.

So its understandable if ED doesn't rush out and change the radar performance of the MiG-29S based on what someone says on the interweb :) .

MiG-29A (Soviet Union/Russia) - N019 Sapfir

MiG-29B (Poland etc..) - N019EA Sapfir

MiG-29B (India etc..) - N019EB Sapfir

MiG-29B (India, Bangladesh) - N019ME Topaz

MiG-29SE (Peru) - N019ME Topaz

MiG-29S (Russia) - N019M Topaz

MiG-29K (India) - Zhuk ME

MiG-29M/M2 (Syria) - Zhuk ME

MiG-29SMT/UPG (India) - Zhuk ME

MiG-29K (Russia) - Zhuk M

The N019 is called "Rubin" - the "Sapfir" name was assigned to the N003 radar(for the MiG-23).

Poland does not have any MiG-29Bs - the MiG-29s they operate are a mix of aircraft they bought directly from the Soviet Union(initial ones), some they got later from the Czech Republic(in a swap deal involving Polish-built helicopters) and finally the MiG-29Gs they got from Germany....all of the Warsaw Pact 9.12A export variant(thus have the same radar).

The Zhuk radars are irrelevant to the topic - they are of a completely different(more advanced) design.

There is no really reliable information on the N019M performance(domestic or export) - only vague claims that its a bit better than the original N019 and has improved ECCM - supposedly in connection with the application of a more powerful data processor. But this is down to nitty-gritty stuff like improved signal to noise resolution - the basics of the radar(antenna type, -size and emitter output) remains the same.

They did remain the same, but AFAIK the improved processing could extend the range at which the contacts of a certain size are detected and locked on.

They did remain the same, but AFAIK the improved processing could extend the range at which the contacts of a certain size are detected and locked on.

Thats what I said mate :)

I agree with Ironhand, I think it's fair as ED simulated the MIG-29S radar, an average between the different sources, and at the same time, better than the A and G models.

I didn't test since last update, I'll..

Nothing changed with the last update that I've noticed.

I agree with Ironhand, I think it's fair as ED simulated the MIG-29S radar, an average between the different sources, and at the same time, better than the A and G models.

But that's a part of the issue and, perhaps, the more pertinent issue. Max range for all three models--well, the A and S, anyway, I haven't actually tested the G--is the same. Of course, there are other differences modeled between the S's and A's radars but range isn't one of them.

Talking about MiG-29 radar, did anybody noticed a drop in performance since the last patch or it is just me?

I am having great difficulty tracking especially front aspect A-10c and Harriers... It could be it's just my mind playing tricks but since the last patch, I can't get a lock on any sensor when coming against a head-on low flying target (even dought I am lower and both of us are feet wet with no clutter).

The scenery is the same, I pick up at 30-45km ППС mod, snap the СНП pointer at the target, the target disappears and it can't be picked up again :(

In the end, it finishes as a game of chicken with me firing the missiles in ФИО mod since both the radar and the EO can't pick it up even dought I am pointing straight at it and are only a few km away.

Anyone else having this issue?

Again

Hi ED

With the arrival of F/A-18C and coming the F-14B, F-14A, F-16C and F-15E..

The RED need to be balance for pvp..

So give us the real radar of MiG-29S and not the perf of MiG-29A radar please ?

Hi ED

 

 

With the arrival of F/A-18C and coming the F-14B, F-14A, F-16C and F-15E..

 

 

The RED need to be balance for pvp..

 

 

So give us the real radar of MiG-29S and not the perf of MiG-29A radar please ?

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My suggestion is to keep it simple.

 

Use the BVR radar mode (2) and don't touch anything, unless you are looking for a target that is very high or very low compared to your position. Listen to the GCI or AWACS to narrow down the target area. MiG29 has not a big search radar like the F-15C or F/A-18C Hornet.

 

If you know what you are doing, and the enemy is closing head-on, you can set the radar-scan to High Prf to pick up targets att a longer range.

 

Reversed from IRL, the EOS system on the MiG29 is actually really good in DCS. I usually alternate between radar and EOS. No luck with the radar? Switch to the EOS for a minute.

Once locked up in EOS you can tap the radar on button quickly to make an IFF of the locked contact.

 

If all else fails, despite your close to enemies. Go vertical scan (3) and keep pressing that lock button like a madman while turning in an 360 arc (if you don't now where the threat is).

Also keep a good eye on your RWR. It looks a bit oldschool tech but can really help you get pointed in the right direction.

 

If you are going against Amraam opponents such like the F-15C, get low and behind cover (if possible) You want to close the distance as much as possible.

 

Another tactic is by running low and sneaky, only using your EOS and the R27ET IR missile to sneak up on unassuming bandits. You should obviusly keep your jammer off to keep a stealthy appearance.

 

But on the whole, think about the MiG29 as a good dogfighter or a point interceptor, you mostly need to get close to the targets to have the advantage, hopefully with some guidance of AWACS or GCI.

Beautiful list of tactics. Well done sir! However you forgot one last tactic. Be sure the skies between you and your opponent are filled with comrades flying lesser quality aircraft so they can divert the ENY's attention and soak up his missiles while you sneak in for the kill. :smilewink:

This is a simulator, the word "balance" should not fit in this context.

Is not a simulator If the real state of MiG-29S radar are not simulated

And Yes balance the reality of aircrafts technology for "red" please

Is not a simulator If the real state of MiG-29S radar are not simulated

See if you can find an archive of Overscan's guide to Russian Radar (or something like that).

He has a lot of data on the actual operational limitations of the MiG-29S radar.

Be careful what you wish for...

Longer detection range is not going to help you in BVR against those aircraft just so you know. because even the su-27s magic data link doesn’t help them out a whole lot in BVR.

They don’t get shot down because they didn’t see the enemy, they get shot down because they have crappy medium range missiles. Changing the radar is not going to fix that for any of the Russian jets. So if your worried about balance don’t fly red in BVR your at a huge disadvantage no matter how you look at it. Gotta use different tactics.

See if you can find an archive of Overscan's guide to Russian Radar (or something like that).

...

Be careful what you wish for...

Overscan's guide to Russian Radar

Is not a simulator If the real state of MiG-29S radar are not simulated

 

 

 

And Yes balance the reality of aircrafts technology for "red" please

Remember there are lots of people here asking for a 40mn+ amraams because they've seen it on "the internet".

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Longer detection range is not going to help you in BVR against those aircraft just so you know. because even the su-27s magic data link doesn’t help them out a whole lot in BVR.

Ok here we talk about the MiG-29S with no data link..

They don’t get shot down because they didn’t see the enemy, they get shot down because they have crappy medium range missiles..

The Russian missiles is good, learn how to using before say it'crappy..

Overscan's guide to Russian Radar

Verry nice article, that's confirm the uprade need to be simulate for the MiG-29S Radar.

I hope also they will make different cockpit for the A and G variant..

Verry nice article, that's confirm the uprade need to be simulate for the MiG-29S Radar.

:-/

To catch these aspects ?

Lockon and transition to tracking mode takes 2 to 7 seconds in Encounter mode.

 

Note that in Encounter mode, a target that changes direction to a tail-on engagement may be lost even when in tracking mode, if it is no longer closing.

………………………….

A medium PRF mode usable for both headon and tailchase engagements. In practise it is used only when necessary, as it is prone to displaying false targets from ground clutter especially at low altitudes. Marsh land, marshy forests and flood plains give greatest clutter problems. When multiple false returns are present, the pilot should compare visible targets with the calculated target range supplied by datalink from GCI controller to determine the correct target

Errors in range measurement can be as high as 8km, but there is no minimum range.

 

When flying at 500-1000m achievable range is just 15-30km search and 13-25km tracking

………………………….

In Automatic mode tracking of a target should continue regardless of target direction provided rate of closure/opening is sufficiently high.

 

It is considered by pilots to be quite problematic, overloading the data computer and generating numerous false returns

Lol, sorry he wants to "balance" red planes, Not nerf them even if that is more real in some aspects.

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