I know the Viper is still rough early access, but good job...

The F-16C Viper has become one of my favorite modules, despite its early access status and in large part because what is completed puts its capabilities roughly on par with the original release of Falcon 4.0 in the late-1990s (other than ground radar, obviously) which was my favorite flight sim "back in the day."

Though I miss Mavericks (I rarely used HARMs), the fact air-to-ground is limited to dumb bombs and laser guided only makes it feel like the mid-1990s flight sims I cut my teeth on which nearly all focused on Desert Storm.

So while I'm excited for more modern weapons in the future, I'm just happy to be tooling around in the Viper in VR and partying like its 1999... again.

Yeah. Its a blast for BFM . Roll rate is off the chart. I can tare it up with dumb bombs all day. The wing flex is awesome too.

I sometimes wonder what kind of BFM we are talking about here.

The F-16 gets eaten in BFM by everything including the JF-17 at the moment. Unless you turn of G-Locs.

(I'm talking about competent human opponents, not AI)

Feel free to take a look at BFM tournaments and you will see the F-14 or F-18 in those. But the F-16 plays no significant role in them.

Also if you like roll rate, try the JF-17. The F-16 feels rather sluggish in terms of roll in DCS.

Yep, I'm really, really liking this bird. Honestly, I had zero interest in the F-16 and always thought it was one of the uglier fighters up there. But I tried it during the free trial and since, with the sale and some saved up points, it could be had for less than $30, I decided to get her.

The cockpit is one of the best in game - not even considering the view from that glorious bubble. I like the layout, the lighting, the DDI colours, the cockpit colours. It feels right. And it's a significantly more appealing place to spend time in than say ... the bug's cockpit - at least for me. She's a nice mixture of old-school and new tech.

I understand that it's not close to being finished yet but, since I had zero expectations to begin with, I'm not bothered at all. I've been using her for A-A only and having blast. I've started playing the F-15C Georgian War campaign, using the Viper instead of the Eagle. Might do the Mirage campaign after that. Playing these missions, looking out at the clouds and scenery, is a very welcome change from being heads down staring at green lines on a dark green screen, surrounded by other green blinky things.

So I'm surprised at how much pleasure I have gotten from the F-16C, and very pleased with the purchase. Nice work ED.

The F-16 gets eaten in BFM by everything including the JF-17 at the moment.

(I'm talking about competent human opponents, not AI)

I can't see why? F-16 flies competently.

Feel free to take a look at BFM tournaments and you will see the F-14 or F-18 in those. But the F-16 plays no significant role in them.

Are you sure inaccuracies in those FMs aren't being exploited? It's not that F-16 isn't correct, but maybe F-18 is wrong and out-performing F-16 incorrectly? OR...no-one is flying realistically?

Also if you like roll rate, try the JF-17. The F-16 feels rather sluggish in terms of roll in DCS.

I have both, and while the JF-17 is my main aircraft in DCS, I'm more than familiar with the F-16, and nothing seems odd or unusual.

In fact, I'd suggest the F-16 is over-performing were it not for several tests I did yesterday (time to altitude and time to Mach 2.0).

Roll rate seems fine. It's very competent in 1 vs. 2 with AI F-14.

I can't see why? F-16 flies competently.

 

 

Are you sure inaccuracies in those FMs aren't being exploited? It's not that F-16 isn't correct, but maybe F-18 is wrong and out-performing F-16 incorrectly? OR...no-one is flying realistically?

 

 

 

I have both, and while the JF-17 is my main aircraft in DCS, I'm more than familiar with the F-16, and nothing seems odd or unusual.

 

In fact, I'd suggest the F-16 is over-performing were it not for several tests I did yesterday (time to altitude and time to Mach 2.0).

 

Roll rate seems fine. It's very competent in 1 vs. 2 with AI F-14.

Pilot blacks out at 7 g. That is a severe limitation while irl the absolute limit should be 9 g. It limits turn radius.

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Are you sure inaccuracies in those FMs aren't being exploited? It's not that F-16 isn't correct, but maybe F-18 is wrong and out-performing F-16 incorrectly? OR...no-one is flying realistically?

You mean like dogfighting at full flaps in the Tomcat? Or paddle override turns in the Hornet?

Yup. That sure happens ...

Pilot blacks out at 7 g. That is a severe limitation while irl the absolute limit should be 9 g. It limits turn radius.

 

 

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Without G-suit, many people will black out at >7G

I'm not sure but is it possible that a G-suit is not implemented yet?

To be honest: I haven't even checked my own G-load but had several black-outs.

In real life I've done 4G and I felt pretty comfortable with it. That was in PH-MRC and PH-MRG btw

Without G-suit, many people will black out at >7G

I'm not sure but is it possible that a G-suit is not implemented yet?

To be honest: I haven't even checked my own G-load but had several black-outs.

In real life I've done 4G and I felt pretty comfortable with it. That was in PH-MRC and PH-MRG btw

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a196171.pdf

:thumbup:

Yeah. Its a blast for BFM . Roll rate is off the chart. I can tare it up with dumb bombs all day. The wing flex is awesome too.

Too high or to low?

You mean like dogfighting at full flaps in the Tomcat? Or paddle override turns in the Hornet?

 

Yup. That sure happens ...

This... They have turned a sim into air quake...

This... They have turned a sim into air quake...

What do you want to do? Present the people with an angry crew chief at the end?

We don't have a campaign and especially in short term dogfighting you just fly the thing to the limits.

If you had the option in reallife to return a bird that needs to get checked all over for hairline fractures, or - best case scenario - in a CSAR helicopter. I am sure pilots would go for the override option as well.

Fact is that the F-16 is just capped at the moment by the attainable Gs in terms of what the pilot can handle.

Fact is that the F-16 is just capped at the moment by the attainable Gs in terms of what the pilot can handle.

Yep, If you try to rate fight at the optimal speed you black out, if you get slower everyone will out rate you, and out-radius you.

Love the F16-C as well, I've spent a bunch of hours on the Hornet, but the Viper is so fast, it's satisfying to fly, except when having to land with almost no brakes :lol:

This... They have turned a sim into air quake...

Brother where ya been? The open DCS online servers have been Air Quake for a decade.:megalol:

Brother where ya been? The open DCS online servers have been Air Quake for a decade.:megalol:

Not on the open servers then. Good choice! :-)

Also if you like roll rate, try the JF-17. The F-16 feels rather sluggish in terms of roll in DCS.

completely 100% agree with this. How I can tell ...well after quite long absen from "the sim that could not be named" this week I've tried it again. I was shocked with the FM. Its snappy and the roll much better compared to DCS Viper which feels sluggish like its on CAT III.

Give the joystick a snack to the side and see if the reaction comes instantaneously or not. I feel like there's a 200ms lag in it. Could be some weird PID parameters in the flcs

I can't prove it, but it feels that something changed a few updates ago and the F-16 became very sluggish indeed.