Jump to content

FW190D9 can't dogfight.


Snapage

Recommended Posts

This plane has never been great at dogfighting but it was at least viable back in 1.5 before the MW50 was broken. Its speed and climb rate made up for its terrible manueverability.

 

But in the last few patches it has been made useless for dogfighting. The P51Ds performance has been improved leaving the FW190D9 with no option but to run away from a fight. And the FW190D9s auto radiators are broken which I presume is the cause for random engine failures and loss of performance. But even when manually controlling the radiator the plane does not have enough of an edge to be able to dogfight.

 

I don't know if the plane is underforming overall or if it flies like the real thing but it is terrible. It's hard to tell when the engine powers down unpredictably without any indication.

 

This is a bad thing for people who fly the Dora and fly againts the Dora because it makes for boring fights, if you can call them fights. Basically you end up either chasing a Dora and when you turn away he tries to attack you and then has to run away. It's literally hit and run. If the Dora tries to stay in the fight he is shot down easily.

 

I don't know if there is a solution to this(maybe its engine is to buggy and broken) but it really sucks. The only viable fighter the Germans have is the 109K4 at the moment.

 

If the Dora can't be competative then we have a pretty poor variety of german fighter planes.

 

I have all the WW2 planes except the 190A8. I am not biased, I just want fun and exciting aerial combat in DCS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, the broken engine ruins the fun. My engine yesterday died on final, and that after a short flight with less than 10 mins of WEP. Radiators work fine though, no?

 

But if you have a working engine, it's an amazing fighter actually. Push it to the limits and you find yourself able to outturn the ponies at certain factors. So, it is more than just capable of dogfighting.

 

Also, there are a few priorities for people at flying. Some want to have fun, some want to live, and some just want to fly. The Doras who run after an engagement probably focus on live, and that's understandable, but conflicts with people who want to have fun.


Edited by razo+r
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, the broken engine ruins the fun. My engine yesterday died on final, and that after a short flight with less than 10 mins of WEP. Radiators work fine though, no?

 

But if you have a working engine, it's an amazing fighter actually. Push it to the limits and you find yourself able to outturn the ponies at certain factors. So, it is more than just capable of dogfighting.

 

Also, there are a few priorities for people at flying. Some want to have fun, some want to live, and some just want to fly. The Doras who run after an engagement probably focus on live, and that's understandable, but conflicts with people who want to have fun.

 

I found that the engine has been overheating and the radiator is not opening automatically. Last time I flew it I manually controlled the radiator and avoided any obvious engine damage that way.

 

I found the Dora to be really good in 1.5 but recently the P51Ds climb performance has been improved and I'm not so sure the Dora can hold it's own any more. It's hard to tell when the engine is so buggy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can confirm some of this. I have a lot of experience fighting the Pony in SP. The Dora does not turn very well, and the AI have incredible climb performance. I could always get around this due to the power of the Dora's engine. Since about 2 or 3 updates I find that the Dora (with MW50 ON) is struggling to catch up with the Pony in climb. I have also had to reduce the amount of time with max power because my engine was dying in the middle of the fight (which was then the end of it).

In sort, I used to follow the Pony in its yo-yo manoeuvres and that's not working any more. That was probably a stupid tactic anyway, but it's always tempting to try and stay close behind.

I now stay high and climb, and attack when I have enough height advantage. With the added energy I can get behind the Pony and stay close enough, even if it climbs again.

But, yes, something has changed in the "balance of power". to the disadvantage of the Dora.

PS: I watched the radiator flaps, and they open wide when I run at high power.


Edited by LeCuvier

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PS: I watched the radiator flaps, and they open wide when I run at high power.

 

Agree, cowl flaps are opening to max position no problem in Automatic mode.

What about comparing fw 190 to player flown p-51 not AI, AI is getting changes i think from some time already.

Lets join some mp server and test it. First p-51 will take lead and fw 190 try to stay behind and then fw will take a lead.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm flying the Dora daily on multiplayer servers and never had any problems with the auto radiators?

 

Is it question or statement ?

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree, cowl flaps are opening to max position no problem in Automatic mode.

What about comparing fw 190 to player flown p-51 not AI, AI is getting changes i think from some time already.

Lets join some mp server and test it. First p-51 will take lead and fw 190 try to stay behind and then fw will take a lead.

 

I already know that the FW190D9 won't stand a chance. I have been flying P51D and Dora againts friends and the result is always the same. The Dora stands no chance This is since the last few updates.

 

The Dora used to be able to gain an altitude advantage to compensate for the poor turning capability. But since the last few updates it really strugles to just get away from a mustang.


Edited by Snapage
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I already know that the FW190D9 won't stand a chance. I have been flying P51D and Dora againts friends and the result is always the same. The Dora stands no chance This is since the last few updates.

 

The Dora used to be able to gain an altitude advantage to compensate for the poor turning capability. But since the last few updates it really strugles to just get away from a mustang.

 

That is siad. Question is. Is it Fw 190 getting nerfed or p-51 gets improved.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This plane has never been great at dogfighting[...]

 

I'm always amazed why the JV-44 would have chosen this airplane to defend/protect Me 262s during take-offs/landings given that this is a scenario in which the Dora should have been pretty bad (low and slow).

"[...] because, basically, in this day and age, if you get to the merge and no one's died - it's not good for anybody." - Keith 'Okie' Nance
"Nun siegt mal schön!" - Theodor Heuss, September 1958

"Nobody has any intention of building a wall." - Walter Ulbricht, June 1961
"Russia has no plans to invade either Ukraine or any other country.
" - Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's ambassador to the EU, January 2022

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm always amazed why the JV-44 would have chosen this airplane to defend/protect Me 262s during take-offs/landings given that this is a scenario in which the Dora should have been pretty bad (low and slow).

 

 

Some ideas: Maybe because it was easier to fly and operate than a Bf-109K? Or they were more readily available. Or the pilots were already trained on it. Or it performed better in real than it does in DCS. :smartass:

Windows 10 64bit, Intel i9-9900@5Ghz, 32 Gig RAM, MSI RTX 3080 TI, 2 TB SSD, 43" 2160p@1440p monitor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm flying the Dora daily on multiplayer servers and never had any problems with the auto radiators?

 

Me neither, and I'm pushing her to the max. She's the best fighter at the moment in DCS but you have to know her. If you yank on the stick like the Spit or Pony driver do, she won't forgive you. Learn to tame her and then you'll find that both Spit and Pony will find their doom quite easily.

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Me neither, and I'm pushing her to the max. She's the best fighter at the moment in DCS but you have to know her. If you yank on the stick like the Spit or Pony driver do, she won't forgive you. Learn to tame her and then you'll find that both Spit and Pony will find their doom quite easily.

 

 

Interesting, may I ask how you are able to easily defeat spitfires and P51s in the FW190D9? Because all I see is FW190D9s either being shot down or running away.

 

 

Of course you cant pull as much as with the spitfire or P51D because those planes both turn better then the FW190D9.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting, may I ask how you are able to easily defeat spitfires and P51s in the FW190D9? Because all I see is FW190D9s either being shot down or running away.

 

 

Of course you cant pull as much as with the spitfire or P51D because those planes both turn better then the FW190D9.

 

Spitfire turns better, yes, but P-51 not always. I once managed to outturn two P-51s low on the deck in the Dora and also can beat them regurarly with other maneuvers aswell


Edited by razo+r
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting, may I ask how you are able to easily defeat spitfires and P51s in the FW190D9? Because all I see is FW190D9s either being shot down or running away.

 

 

Of course you cant pull as much as with the spitfire or P51D because those planes both turn better then the FW190D9.

 

Spit is the easier one to defeat. Just boom'n'zoom it till death. His death. With the Pony you have to work a little bit more, just keep your energy higher than his. SA is essential here. If he manages to get on your tail, DO NOT panic, just do a few rolling scissors with it and you'll find yourself, magically, behind him. Her higher roll rate will make sure you will. Don't yank on the stick, you'll lose the fight that way. Remember, tactics is what makes you win a dogfight.

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spit is the easier one to defeat. Just boom'n'zoom it till death. His death. With the Pony you have to work a little bit more, just keep your energy higher than his. SA is essential here. If he manages to get on your tail, DO NOT panic, just do a few rolling scissors with it and you'll find yourself, magically, behind him. Her higher roll rate will make sure you will. Don't yank on the stick, you'll lose the fight that way. Remember, tactics is what makes you win a dogfight.

 

Sounds good. I still think something is not right with this module. I know a few people who have also noticed a loss in engine power in the Dora. Don't know what is causing it to happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a rule of thumb, you don't touch the radiators as you don't need to, in any circumstances. Just be gentle on the throttle and you're doing fine. To put the cowl flaps on Auto mode you have to Close them with a single press of the button, after you Opened them. If I (rarely) feel the need to open the radiators (just before engaging MW50), I just make 2 taps on the Open button let it a few seconds and then one tap on the Close button and everything is normal, even in full power. Btw, do not exceed 3000rpm if MW50 is not engaged. That's all about Dora's radiators. Have safe flights!


Edited by amazingme

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3000 rpm is max continuous

3250 rpm 1 h limit up to 7 km above, 3250 rpm become continuous

 

Like I said.. do not exceed 3000rpm if MW50 is not engaged.

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I said.. do not exceed 3000rpm if MW50 is not engaged.

 

You very much can exceed 3000 w/o mw50, im flying at this settings all the time since i push throttle to the gate at take off till throttle retardation at approach before landing.

I fly continuous full military power in D9, this is why i am shocked that ppl encounter any engine damage.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gave it a try earlier and indeed, you can run 3200rpm without MW-50 for more than 3 mins. I don't know if you can run it indefinitely, but clearly something has changed since the MW-50 bug when I last flew her. If I remember correctly, the official docs specify that the Combat power should be 3000rpm and Emergency power should be 3200 for a short period of time, 3 min or so, and 3250 rpm only with MW-50. Before the mentioned bug, I remember that anything over 3000rpm w/o MW-50 would destroy the engine.

Some 'official' opinions on this would be great.

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I gave it a try earlier and indeed, you can run 3200rpm without MW-50 for more than 3 mins. I don't know if you can run it indefinitely, but clearly something has changed since the MW-50 bug when I last flew her. If I remember correctly, the official docs specify that the Combat power should be 3000rpm and Emergency power should be 3200 for a short period of time, 3 min or so, and 3250 rpm only with MW-50. Before the mentioned bug, I remember that anything over 3000rpm w/o MW-50 would destroy the engine.

Some 'official' opinions on this would be great.

 

Jumo 213 was much stronger engine then DB, it could run 3250 rpm.

Acording to DCS manual 3250 is allowed for 30min.

And 3000 rpm is continuous power.

I use this power very often, no problem with the engine.


Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ED Team
This plane has never been great at dogfighting but it was at least viable back in 1.5 before the MW50 was broken. Its speed and climb rate made up for its terrible manueverability.

 

But in the last few patches it has been made useless for dogfighting. The P51Ds performance has been improved leaving the FW190D9 with no option but to run away from a fight. And the FW190D9s auto radiators are broken which I presume is the cause for random engine failures and loss of performance. But even when manually controlling the radiator the plane does not have enough of an edge to be able to dogfight.

 

I don't know if the plane is underforming overall or if it flies like the real thing but it is terrible. It's hard to tell when the engine powers down unpredictably without any indication.

 

This is a bad thing for people who fly the Dora and fly againts the Dora because it makes for boring fights, if you can call them fights. Basically you end up either chasing a Dora and when you turn away he tries to attack you and then has to run away. It's literally hit and run. If the Dora tries to stay in the fight he is shot down easily.

 

I don't know if there is a solution to this(maybe its engine is to buggy and broken) but it really sucks. The only viable fighter the Germans have is the 109K4 at the moment.

 

If the Dora can't be competative then we have a pretty poor variety of german fighter planes.

 

I have all the WW2 planes except the 190A8. I am not biased, I just want fun and exciting aerial combat in DCS.

 

If you think there is a problem it would be best to have a track replay showing the issue and we can investigate.

 

But remember, speed is life especially in the Dora, and you will need to manage the engine.

 

 

 

 

I just bought it and it is broken? Have not flown it yet.

 

How do you know it is broken if you have not flown it?

 

The Dora does require high skill to master for sure, but it is most definitely not broken

 

Thanks


Edited by BIGNEWY

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...