How do I aerial refuel?

nobodys gonna stop you from using ap of course but the thing is the only person you're really hurting is yourself

fine control of the aircraft is a skill that materially benefits combat, landings, you name it. if you never learn to control your aircraft, you will find yourself frustrated by the tyrannical elitism of reality at every turn, and you will bind yourself to the chains of your handicap aids.

there is only one route to liberation and that is to conquer your weakness

Maybe some bug... or like some said, joystick curves or something like that, the Hornet is the easiest plane to refuel IMHO, the only experience with air refueling that I had was with the Su-33, and when I tried the hornet for the first time, it was like the plane was doing all it by itself, God bless the fly by wire, lol

So I spent some time last night with it and just put myself in a new mindset and started over. I was finally able to connect and pretty much stay connected to the KC-130. Im still having an issue though of the Hornet just wanting to wobble all over the place and difficult to keep in place. Seems more unstable than it should compared to the other aircraft I fly. There is to be an issue with my axis settings on the Stick and Throttle that is causing the issue with the flight model. Its the only answer I have for the problem. I had set them up a long time ago to what was said to be the most accurate and have not messed with them. So I will adjust them somewhat and see if that helps.

I find giving your throttle a curve on the bottom end helps significantly. Giving yourself more throw range in the 0-30% throttle area allows you to make minor adjustments with more precision.

had similiar issues, but since switching to vr made it so much easler for me any way

Of all the tutorial videos I've seen on youtube, 104th_Maverick seems to have the best technique whereas most were a bit all over the places. Zero wobbling and rock steady aircraft both prior to and during connection, of course his hands were constantly moving and I also saw some tiny rudder deflection at times. I'm sure you've all seen it. I've been trying to replicate his technique but not there yet.

I know this isn't probably what the OP wants to hear, but for me the solution was an upgrade from TMWH base to Virpil T50CM2 base. Made AAR almost easy. I was surprised how much of a difference it made in the end.

I know this isn't probably what the OP wants to hear, but for me the solution was an upgrade from TMWH base to Virpil T50CM2 base. Made AAR almost easy. I was surprised how much of a difference it made in the end.

Actually I have been considering that.... I have had my TMWH for a long time and from what I can see compared to the Virpil base it is not as good of a design anymore compared to what is now available as far as bases go.

I have found that this helps...

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

If I have trouble, I ...

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

:joystick:

I have found that this helps...

 

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

If I have trouble, I ...

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

:joystick:

This too^^!!

Wot he said^.

After connect, I look through the basket at the tanker. Just fly nice formation on the tanker.

I have found that this helps...

 

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

If I have trouble, I ...

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

:joystick:

As I have stated many times already the Hornet is the only one I have had issues with and I dont look at the basket. that was the first thing I learned not to do...

I find it very difficult to independently manage both the throttle and the stick in a way that avoids PIO without deadening the stick inputs. I have a saitek X52 pro and it could also be that the stick does not have very good control at small input values, due to the tension on the spring. It's easy to overcorrect simply due to the amount of force that's required to set the spring in motion.

I come from the rotorcraft/VTOL side. Rotorheads are advised to remove the spring alltogether from the joystick (a crappy one I admit). That helped a lot in flying helicopters and also seemed beneficial for AAR. Stimulated by the 'Easy AAR' discussions elsewhere in the forum, I dusted off my Harrier practices and tried AARs for the first time. In the end I managed to get 'transfers complete'. I guess partly because I could fly by the fingers instead of by a sweaty hand, fighting the spring, detents and deadbands.

Ooh.. and also not looking at the basket!

Rotorheads are advised to remove the spring alltogether from the joystick (a crappy one I admit).

I do appreciate the fact that the CH stick has a very light spring.

I watched a series by a pro racing coach, doing racing sims and one of his lessons was all about where your vision should be. It’s amazing the difference it makes where you are looking. His series was on real life driving but of course it translates to the screen. I thought ok big deal yeah my eyes... no kidding it works. Your plane or car will follow your eyes and under stress like refueling you’ll get fixated on the wrong things. Looking at the basket may be just like looking at the road too close to your car, the farther out you look the easier cues to your motion are to get.

Honestly I couldn't AAR until I got VR and a TM warthog. The depth perception in VR helped immensely and the TM warthog helped with fine adjustments in the aircraft.

Edit:

Also wanted to add that having my homemade desk mount for the throttle and joystick added a lot to the control I had on the aircraft. Just simply having my hands in a realistic position as opposed to up high on my desk did wonders.

I have a foolproof technique.

I fly up and put the probe in the basket and hover there for a few minutes and you get your gas.

Just kidding. I feel ya,

I have about a thousand refuelings or more in helicopters as a crew member not a pilot.

The best advice I ever heard was to rest your forearm on your thigh to reduce pilot induced oscillation.

In dcs that means changing your curve. Which I set mine to 25 on each.

You want to be in a position after you contact to fly there until your full. I tend to pick up the basket a little and be a little outside.

In a helo you pick up the basket and put it up and left on the fuel dump tube outside of the c130 wing. You can’t do that with the f18 because they are using the high speed drogue or some sim thing.’

Peripheral vision is very important. More monitors, track ir or VR.

But here is the deal with the real thing. Nothing, absolutely nothing, beats just hittin that thing again and again.

Seems like a good idea all around.

Also take your feet of your rudders...

I know this isn't probably what the OP wants to hear, but for me the solution was an upgrade from TMWH base to Virpil T50CM2 base. Made AAR almost easy. I was surprised how much of a difference it made in the end.

just my 2c, in case you are considering this. although basically a very good piece of hardware, i found the virpil warBRD (not CM2) base awful in combination with any TM grip, as these are too heavy in relation to the springs used, which leads to having too much inertia in every movement of the stick.

i've been using the TM base & grip with an extension of 75mm for quite a while now, and am very happy with that. curves set to +20, no deadzone.

AAR: when you get the probe into the basket, look out your front and get a reference point of the tanker's structure in relation to your HUD. in my case the basket's fairing would be in between the HUD top and the canopy. keep your reference point in place using the stick.

next get another reference point to your right (left) side that is in touch with your canopy. typically i pickup the tanker's fuselage markings or the tail hook. now use the throttle to keep that reference point in position.

you will have to look a bit up in order to do this. that's the best technique i found so far...

also: better train for 10 min every day than having 2h refueling terror sessions once per week :thumbup:

Also take your feet of your rudders...

Really? I use rudder and roll to counter wake turbulence.

once you are in pre-contact i find it easier without my feet on the rudders YMMV

I had plenty of difficulty in a10 and f18. The single best upgrade that helped was vr.

Then formation practice.

Set up a mission with another Hornet flying a huge triangle with long legs. Start the player acft next to it. Practice holding various positions in close form with that acft. And by hold I mean hold... A few minutes at a time.

Then move to refuelling.

Like everyone says.. Don't focus on the basket. Unfortunately, what they don't tell you are the visual cues to use.

I know I will cop flack for suggesting this, but a tip for learning the correct cues is to simplify the task a little. As follows:

Turn wake turb off. ( it is waaaayyyy over done anyway) this removes the sudden roll as you approach.

Lock the tanker up so you see your distance and closing speed.

Sit 0.1 behind the tanker straight and level and place the refuel pod (the big thing on the wing not the basket) on your 5degree pitch line. Use this position to match the tanker IAS.

Now for the heresy.. hit BALT. This will do 2 things. It will dampen your inputs and will remove pitch (and associated speed changes) from the occasion.

Now just creep forward 1-2 knots higher than the tanker until contact. Then concentrate on keeping the pod centred obove the HUD. Your cues may differ slightly but I find if I keep the pod between the top of the hud and the canopy frame I can fuel indefinitely. If the pod creeps up to the frame I need to back off the throttle a little. If the pod drops to the HUD I need to creep forward.

I can already hear Spanish inquisition coming for suggesting the use of autopilot. However I am not suggesting you always use it, just use it to help learn the required visual cues and build the required reflexes to make fine adjustments. (although it's a game, knock yourself out if you want to) When you are comfortable with the visual cues, try without the AP. Remember your controls will be more sensitive when you do. When you are ready you can even turn the wake turbulence cyclones back on.

On the topic of sticks. Find what works for you. Many here recommend super light sticks. I personally hate light sprung sticks and couldn't possibly fly well with them. The warthog is near perfect spring for me however I highly recommend having the stick between your legs. This let's you rest your forearm on your thigh allowing very precise movements. I personally place the warthog on my seat and sit with my thighs on the big plate. Very solid and comfy.

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agree with the above vr is so much easier with aar and landing and even better in dog fighting with another aircraft