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Wallpaper shows AIM-9X...?


mrsteel

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Ah, yes. Well, I will be searching for the Syrian SU-22 pilot's formal complaint that he was shot-down by a non-period aircraft.

 

So you actually think you're a navy pilot flying cap when playing f15 in dcs huh? Ok then...

 

And btw this conversation would be on a completely different place had the Russians decided to actually support their allies.

But let's not make this political.

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Good job on making the discussion political despite saying not to do so.

 

The close combat duel is not over its going to be interesting if the f18 dethrones the su27 or not. I expect it not to but it will depend on a lot of factors. so yeah. We will see.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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So you actually think you're a navy pilot flying cap when playing f15 in dcs huh? Ok then...

It's not that I think I'm a real fighter pilot, I'm just here to vouch for the guys who take DCS seriously, turn the labels off, and don't feel a need for "balance" in multiplayer like it's War Thunder or Call of Duty. You know, the kind of pilots who know that the Navy doesn't operate the F-15.

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Ah, yes. Well, I will be searching for the Syrian SU-22 pilot's formal complaint that he was shot-down by a non-period aircraft.

 

I bet the F/A-18 Pilot was a little upset about his latest hi-tech AIM-9X was defeated by the SU-22 cold war jet.:)

 

This means from now on, when one of your missiles misses in DCS, you cannot be too unhappy, especially after this hi-tech missile got decoyed by a cold war jet from 1.5 miles away.:( It just goes to show us, all this hi-tech is not always going to help you out it seems.

 

“The news that it was unable to shoot down a 30-year-old fighter jet will be disturbing to many.”

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/news/a27094/su-22-dodge-aim-9x-sidewinder/

 

 

-


Edited by David OC

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I bet the F/A-18 Pilot was a little upset about his latest hi-tech AIM-9X was defeated by the SU-22 cold war jet.:)

 

This means from now on, when one of your missiles misses in DCS, you cannot be too unhappy, especially after this hi-tech missile got decoyed by a cold war jet from 1.5 miles away.:( It just goes to show us, all this hi-tech is not always going to help you out it seems.

 

“The news that it was unable to shoot down a 30-year-old fighter jet will be disturbing to many.”

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/news/a27094/su-22-dodge-aim-9x-sidewinder/

 

This is an unconfirmed report FYI.

 

Edit: PM is quoting CNN - Who is CNN quoting?

 

http://theaviationgeekclub.com/breaking-case-wondering-u-s-navy-super-hornet-squadron-shot-syrian-su-22-fitter-find-answer/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com

 

That article? Which cites...Facebook? Okay, it also cites War Is Boring, but not for the engagement details in question! :P

 

Anything else from the 20th on this? Edit II: 20th or earlier I mean.


Edited by Sweep
edited last line to clarify.

Lord of Salt

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This is an unconfirmed report FYI.

 

Others are reporting this too?

 

Interesting how the Soviet flares are more dirty, dont look the same and had different burn time, intensity and separation. I wonder how well the AIM-9X was tested against these "uncommon" dirty changing flares.

 

http://www.combataircraft.net/2017/06/23/how-did-a-30-year-old-su-22-defeat-a-modern-aim-9x/

 

"Ultimately, having defeated the AIM-9X, the ‘Fitter’ wasn’t as successful against the radar-guided AMRAAM. However, this engagement will surely have a few Top Gun and Weapons School graduates scratching their heads and trying to understand exactly how and why a 30 year-old ‘Fitter’, probably in a poor state of condition, beat-off America’s best close-range missile."

 

 

EDIT: Our Aussie news sites are jumping onboard now? LOL, they better hope it's true, with these click bait headlines.

 

"Syrian dogfight reveals F-35 stealth fighter may be toothless tiger"

 

"The shooting down of a Syrian fighter jet may have exposed a fatal flaw with Australia’s next generation aircraft, the F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter."

 

 

.


Edited by David OC

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CA's citing the same source, though.

 

I avoid single source claims with air power. Especially something this recent and controversial. That's not even getting into supporting/rejecting what they're claiming.

 

AFAIK, "R-27s have a 0.000000000005 Pk" has more credibility in that regard than this. :)

Lord of Salt

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Sweep is right, I don't think there's been any solid source who said it was an AIM-9X and that it missed.

 

However, if RUMINT is to be believed, then the AIM-9X in fact missed and it was a 120 that scored the killing blow. When I first heard this, I was totally scratching my head as to how the 9X could've missed. But then again, we don't know the juicy such as the angle it was shot from for example. Who knows, maybe the Su-22 pilot jettisoned his entire flare payload when he realized a heater from a much more advanced jet was come at him. I would've blown my entire flare package at once if I knew it was an AIM-9X in the Su-22 pilot's shoes.. and pray to god he only had one! But in most pics I've seen, F-18s carry two AIM-9Xs on the wingtip pylons, right?

 

Making the big assumption that the RUMINT is true, it does make you wonder if the AIM-9X is what it's chalked up to be.

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It does makes you think about it, if these Soviet flares are all old and burn differently, it would be hard to program a missile to go for the right target when there is so many slightly different flares launching at once.

 

On a side note: Would be cool to have HMCS tech added to the A-10C later, now that would be the way to put a spi down, there also able place the TGP viewing screen anywhere in the cockpit to view it using this system, afaik? Does the F/A18 allow you to do this? Or is this a later version of HMCS and F/A18.

 

 

 

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As far as my knowledge goes, The A-10C actually uses the Scorpion HMD, an entirely separate and [i think] slightly more advanced system that is more geared for CAS and Air to Ground than the JHMCS. At the Fort Wayne airshow last fall I had a great opportunity to speak with some A-10C pilots about the HMD.

 

I don't know for myself what the JHMCS can do, but according to Revelation on page 3, "There's also the ability to designate points on the ground just by looking at it via the JHMCS," So I assume the JHMCS can in fact designate points on the ground for sensors.

 

A quick google search reveals what looks like some example symbology from the Scorpion HMD.

 

Pilot.jpg

 

As for comparison, here's what the JHMCS looks like.

 

air_507a_012.jpg

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It's not that I think I'm a real fighter pilot, I'm just here to vouch for the guys who take DCS seriously, turn the labels off, and don't feel a need for "balance" in multiplayer like it's War Thunder or Call of Duty. You know, the kind of pilots who know that the Navy doesn't operate the F-15.

 

I thought we were talking about dcs in general? What does it have to do with the navy and f15s?

 

I said I will not continue the politically charged discussion about Syria. I don't want an admin bursting a blood vessel again and closing the topic. Besides everything is based on rumors so...

 

Regarding dcs and realism I don't understand where you're getting at.

Nobody said anything about labels or easy mode. I mentioned period correct armaments and planes which is as hardcore as it gets, which in dcs is f15s with aim7s and su27s with r27ers but I don't see a lot of people populating the weapon restricted servers. I wonder why that... Probably because they are too easy, must be that.

 

Taking potshots with amraams in tws in a plane that takes a few keystrokes to fly doesn't register in my book as serious flying in dcs, nor giving both sides the same plane types because it f@cks my rwr situational awareness.


Edited by dimitrischal
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yes, im sure it's unrealistic that iran also operates f-14s or that croatia operates mig-21s?

 

let's be more honest with ourselves please:

it f@cks my rwr

 

this is the operative word here:

my

 

its always bad, bugged, unrealistic, and unfair when it doesn't benefit me, right?


Edited by probad
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yes, im sure it's unrealistic that iran also operates f-14s or that croatia operates mig-21s?

 

let's be more honest with ourselves please:

 

 

this is the operative word here:

 

 

its always bad, bugged, unrealistic, and unfair when it doesn't benefit me, right?

 

You understand those are real countries right using real equipment and not allowances a mission maker took while making a mission right?

You know there are procedures involved in war zones where commonality of equipment is present because of the risks involved?

 

I don't see where the me thing comes in, aren't we all interested in realism? Probably not as I can see.

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Regarding dcs and realism I don't understand where you're getting at.

Nobody said anything about labels or easy mode. I mentioned period correct armaments and planes which is as hardcore as it gets, which in dcs is f15s with aim7s and su27s with r27ers but I don't see a lot of people populating the weapon restricted servers. I wonder why that... Probably because they are too easy, must be that.

 

(quote emphasis is mine ofc)

 

This is wrong. Based in reality. Why? IRL, right now, Su-27s fly intercept with all R-27 variants, typically the short burn ones. They're facing aircraft equipped with AIM-120C5, C6, C7, and -120D. Is that unrealistic? No. In the 90s, you had Eagles with AIM-120A, B, and C3/C4 fighting MiG-29 9.12x that had AA-10A. Is that unrealistic? No. Is it inherently unfair to one side? Yes. Is AIM-9X vs anything WVR unrealistic? Nope. Although if you ask some it might be a fair fight. And that's quite a period correct weapon for most things...2003-present. Anyway, fairness and realism aren't the same thing. Realism isn't about making a fight easy or hard, it's really about fighting realistically. That is, for realistic goals, by (mostly!) realistic means, using a real mindset (e.g. "I don't wanna die!" vs "I WANT ALL THE KILLS!" or something).

 

Weapons capabilities in the sim don't make your scenario more or less realistic, btw. Look at Blue Flag early on - Generally realistic, just extremely condensed battlespace among other things, right? They used modern and 80s weapons. Heck, they even tried WW2 for the same scenario. Didn't change much. ;)

 

Taking potshots with amraams in tws in a plane that takes a few keystrokes to fly doesn't register in my book as serious flying in dcs, nor giving both sides the same plane types because it f@cks my rwr situational awareness.

 

Why? Is it due to the fact that your MiG-21 makes you press 30 switches to do the same thing? Switchology realism doesn't give you scenario realism. AMRAAM shooters don't register as serious flyers to you likely because you're playing a flight game and not a simulation. Better yet, I could take a Hornet with 10 heaters and the HMD and go sneak my way into merges all day long and kill everybody...Now I have switchology realism because it's ASM, but do I have a serious element or scenario realism overall? Probably not.

 

And just imagine this, realistically speaking, the APG-63 and AIM-120 combo is insanely mean. What we have now is easy mode...Not for the F-15 pilot, but for the bandit. :)

 

its always bad, bugged, unrealistic, and unfair when it doesn't benefit me, right?

 

I think you two are in agreement on that! Did you misread the quote?

 

"(...) doesn't register in my book as serious flying in DCS, nor giving both sides the same plane types (...)"


Edited by Sweep
edit iv: now with 175% more words.

Lord of Salt

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It's not that I think I'm a real fighter pilot, I'm just here to vouch for the guys who take DCS seriously, turn the labels off, and don't feel a need for "balance" in multiplayer like it's War Thunder or Call of Duty. You know, the kind of pilots who know that the Navy doesn't operate the F-15.

 

So when these guys create scenarios for their Hornets and A-10s will they still restrict themselves flying against AI opponents which imo is as unrealistic as using labels. I suppose they can get a smarter and more realistic behaving opponent flying MiG21s but oh boy the challenge for those F/A-18 CAP guys must be off the chart, I guess mission success everytime is a must though.

When the AI gets too stale i'd hate to see something like the Hornet avionics etc. being ported into Mig29s, Flankers, Tornados etc. as in some other sim just to make a challenging pvp environment. But at least we wouldn't have to acknowledge those arcaders asking for some sort of 4th gen diversity.

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So when these guys create scenarios for their Hornets and A-10s will they still restrict themselves flying against AI opponents which imo is as unrealistic as using labels. I suppose they can get a smarter and more realistic behaving opponent flying MiG21s but oh boy the challenge for those F/A-18 CAP guys must be off the chart, I guess mission success everytime is a must though.

When the AI gets too stale i'd hate to see something like the Hornet avionics etc. being ported into Mig29s, Flankers, Tornados etc. as in some other sim just to make a challenging pvp environment. But at least we wouldn't have to acknowledge those arcaders asking for some sort of 4th gen diversity.

 

There's a team working on the JF-17, hopefully they can get an official third-party status and bring their product into the fold.

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(quote emphasis is mine ofc)

 

This is wrong. Based in reality. Why? IRL, right now, Su-27s fly intercept with all R-27 variants, typically the short burn ones. They're facing aircraft equipped with AIM-120C5, C6, C7, and -120D. Is that unrealistic? No. In the 90s, you had Eagles with AIM-120A, B, and C3/C4 fighting MiG-29 9.12x that had AA-10A. Is that unrealistic? No. Is it inherently unfair to one side? Yes. Is AIM-9X vs anything WVR unrealistic? Nope. Although if you ask some it might be a fair fight. And that's quite a period correct weapon for most things...2003-present. Anyway, fairness and realism aren't the same thing. Realism isn't about making a fight easy or hard, it's really about fighting realistically. That is, for realistic goals, by (mostly!) realistic means, using a real mindset (e.g. "I don't wanna die!" vs "I WANT ALL THE KILLS!" or something).

 

Weapons capabilities in the sim don't make your scenario more or less realistic, btw. Look at Blue Flag early on - Generally realistic, just extremely condensed battlespace among other things, right? They used modern and 80s weapons. Heck, they even tried WW2 for the same scenario. Didn't change much. ;)

 

 

 

Why? Is it due to the fact that your MiG-21 makes you press 30 switches to do the same thing? Switchology realism doesn't give you scenario realism. AMRAAM shooters don't register as serious flyers to you likely because you're playing a flight game and not a simulation. Better yet, I could take a Hornet with 10 heaters and the HMD and go sneak my way into merges all day long and kill everybody...Now I have switchology realism because it's ASM, but do I have a serious element or scenario realism overall? Probably not.

 

And just imagine this, realistically speaking, the APG-63 and AIM-120 combo is insanely mean. What we have now is easy mode...Not for the F-15 pilot, but for the bandit. :)

 

 

 

I think you two are in agreement on that! Did you misread the quote?

 

"(...) doesn't register in my book as serious flying in DCS, nor giving both sides the same plane types (...)"

 

Let me change that mentality a bit for you.

I don't wanna die but I need to get this thing done to the best of my abilities before I have to return for fuel.

Scenario realism involves weather, fuel planning, enemy air defense analysis, fighter cover etc on top of switchology realism which for me is necessary.

The community ignores or has sterized most of these parameters for the sake of easy access and team deathmatch multiplayer game.

Blue Flag is a good pastime but realistic? If I fly some crates somewhere I can build a sam battery? Really?

The f18 offers for the first time carrier ops, true multirole, long range standoff weapons(maybe?), realistic sead capabilities and half of the forum posts are about the hmd and the aim9x and its usefulness in dogfighting because some boys had their asses kicked by r73s when they run out of slammers in what is basically team deathmatch multiplayer.


Edited by dimitrischal
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Let me change that mentality a bit for you.

I don't wanna die but I need to get this thing done to the best of my abilities before I have to return for fuel.

Scenario realism involves weather, fuel planning, enemy air defense analysis, fighter cover etc on top of switchology realism which for me is necessary.

The community ignores or has sterized most of these parameters for the sake of easy access and team deathmatch multiplayer game.

Blue Flag is a good pastime but realistic? If I fly some crates somewhere I can build a sam battery? Really?

The f18 offers for the first time carrier ops, true multirole, long range standoff weapons(maybe?), realistic sead capabilities and half of the forum posts are about the hmd and the aim9x and its usefulness in dogfighting because some boys had their asses kicked by r73s when they run out of slammers in what is basically team deathmatch multiplayer.

 

Thanks for clarifying your mindset! Makes more sense now. ;)

 

As for Blue Flag - The first two rounds...Package cohesion, decentralized and competent leadership, well at least where Blue was concerned...I think the playerbase has changed quite a bit since then, unfortunately. It was a good transition for a lot of deathmatch-oriented types from TDM to somewhat realistic flying.

 

And as for the 9X, yeah it's overhyped. It's good distraction from telling people how dropping contacts on the A/A radar modes works, though! (you have to hit the MFD Radar page reset button, as I remember)

Lord of Salt

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Blue Flag is a good pastime but realistic? If I fly some crates somewhere I can build a sam battery? Really?

 

 

That seems a bit unfair when you consider the idea is to add dynamics to the mission. Moving units create lag within high pop servers so creating a mission for Helos to go to a point on the map providing logistics to help create a SAM battery. Just because the knowing of what is going on in the mission is there doesn't mean its interpretation is the same.

If someone asked you to place a pin on a map for a good location for an ice cream van, then when you go there an ice cream van is already parked there did you just create that van by placing a pin, or did someone work behind the scenes to get that van there.

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And as for the 9X, yeah it's overhyped. It's good distraction from telling people how dropping contacts on the A/A radar modes works, though! (you have to hit the MFD Radar page reset button, as I remember)

 

As if that will be a big problem? I mean..... 'click' done.

 

And if some people cant aim with their mouse they will just bind the button to their HOTAS. ;)

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That seems a bit unfair when you consider the idea is to add dynamics to the mission. Moving units create lag within high pop servers so creating a mission for Helos to go to a point on the map providing logistics to help create a SAM battery. Just because the knowing of what is going on in the mission is there doesn't mean its interpretation is the same.

If someone asked you to place a pin on a map for a good location for an ice cream van, then when you go there an ice cream van is already parked there did you just create that van by placing a pin, or did someone work behind the scenes to get that van there.

 

Last time I tried that the van had a flat tire... :(

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As if that will be a big problem? I mean..... 'click' done.

 

And if some people cant aim with their mouse they will just bind the button to their HOTAS. ;)

 

There's a reason why I taped my G13 to the desk! :D

Lord of Salt

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The f18 offers for the first time carrier ops, true multirole, long range standoff weapons(maybe?), realistic sead capabilities and half of the forum posts are about the hmd and the aim9x and its usefulness in dogfighting because some boys had their asses kicked by r73s when they run out of slammers in what is basically team deathmatch multiplayer.

 

i think so too.

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The article has nothing to do with DCS F/A-18C or the Inclusion of AIM-9X in DCS World, and has been posted previously in another thread.


Edited by SkateZilla

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