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DCS Germany Centric Map


Woogey

DCS Germany Centric Map  

93 members have voted

  1. 1. DCS Germany Centric Map

    • Yes, E.D. Make this a Priority!
    • No, E.D needs to maintain focus on the Roadmap they have committed to..
    • No, I can't wait for yet another desolate desert terain


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For a long time I have longed for a DCS Euro Map. If you go by the current NTTR dimensional map size (500mi x 500mi) this could potentially encompass Germany with a tiny bit of the bordering countries on the outskirts. However, if you take into consideration the extreme reaches of both the Black Sea Map and the Persian Gulf Map, then our coverage over doubles to a dimension of 600mi x 1000mi.

 

Using ORBX Land Class Sceneries as a basis of potential size, All of their European Sceneries combined works out to 38.4 Gigabytes of High detail (Equivalent to DCS) Landclass terrain. The area encompassed by ORBX Landclass territories includes All of Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales, Norway, and Germany, Plus a complete area coverage for all of Europe. Additionally, ORBX has created a Completely PhotoReal Coverage of the Netherlands, however using this Tech, the Netherlands alone comes in at over 75Gb for this little country alone!

 

I bring up ORBX only as an example of the amount of data that a map of this size could require, and the difference between Landclass and Photoreal (Orthophoto) style of map creation.

 

Attached is a Proposed photo of the map that could be. While it would not satisfy all parties, it would cover a larger group of coalitions, while giving a very good area for Cold War Operations, and even an expanded coverage area for WW2 Battles. I moved the map far enough West to encompass the Mach Loop in its entirety. All of the Current Normandy map is included, of which most of that map could be recycled into this version. I think one potential strategy with a map like this could be to build it as a WW2 map, but release modern campaigns for it in the future which add assets, buildings, and Airfields that suit the aircraft that the missions are intended for.

 

Does anybody else have the desire to fight Nato Vs. the Warsaw Pact in Europe like I do? It seams to me with the current Assets, This is the map that Flanker/Flaming Cliffs should have had all along! Eagle Dynamics, can we get a refocus on the Basics, and please create a map like this?

706501338_DCSFuldaGap.thumb.jpg.82f7cac70fa3bfdb71cfcaccbcb28e3b.jpg


Edited by Woogey
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I would prefer the map to be more to the east and north, to include a good bit of the Baltic Sea, entire Denmark, southern Sweden and Kaliningrad.


Edited by QuiGon

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For a long time I have longed for a DCS Euro Map. If you go by the current NTTR dimensional map size (500mi x 500mi) this could potentially encompass Germany with a tiny bit of the bordering countries on the outskirts. However, if you take into consideration the extreme reaches of both the Black Sea Map and the Persian Gulf Map, then our coverage over doubles to a dimension of 600mi x 1000mi.

 

Using ORBX Land Class Sceneries as a basis of potential size, All of their European Sceneries combined works out to 38.4 Gigabytes of High detail (Equivalent to DCS) Landclass terrain. The area encompassed by ORBX Landclass territories includes All of Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales, Norway, and Germany, Plus a complete area coverage for all of Europe. Additionally, ORBX has created a Completely PhotoReal Coverage of the Netherlands, however using this Tech, the Netherlands alone comes in at over 75Gb for this little country alone!

 

I bring up ORBX only as an example of the amount of data that a map of this size could require, and the difference between Landclass and Photoreal (Orthophoto) style of map creation.

 

Attached is a Proposed photo of the map that could be. While it would not satisfy all parties, it would cover a larger group of coalitions, while giving a very good area for Cold War Operations, and even an expanded coverage area for WW2 Battles. I moved the map far enough West to encompass the Mach Loop in its entirety. All of the Current Normandy map is included, of which most of that map could be recycled into this version. I think one potential strategy with a map like this could be to build it as a WW2 map, but release modern campaigns for it in the future which add assets, buildings, and Airfields that suit the aircraft that the missions are intended for.

 

Does anybody else have the desire to fight Nato Vs. the Warsaw Pact in Europe like I do? It seams to me with the current Assets, This is the map that Flanker/Flaming Cliffs should have had all along! Eagle Dynamics, can we get a refocus on the Basics, and please create a map like this?

It needs to go north a little further in Scotland, you just miss out the UK/US submarine naval bases at Holy Loch and Faslane on the Gareloch, that area was/is very active with both surface ships and submarines.

If you take it as far north as Garelochhead then you capture the target rich area where the Polaris and later Trident ICBMs are stored.

It is just under 50 miles, besides capturing that on the West Coast/Clyde estuary you would also get the Naval Dockyards at Rosyth near Edinburgh and would also take in RAF Leuchars near St Andrews, it was from there that many interceptions of Soviet aircraft was done during the cold war.

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Clan Cameron

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This map is WAY to large to be taked as a valid option.

 

Same Size as Caucuses and Persian Gulf, 600 miles by 1000 miles. Granted these maps have a much smaller “High Detail” area, but the full map are is in fact 600mi x 1000mi. The point of bringing up the ORBX stuff in the original post, was to show that the map could be high detail in its entirety, and still be kept to a manageable size memory wise. This map could be done and still not break 40gb.

 

There is no reason this map could not be slid north a wee bit, but it can’t go West and East to cover Kaliningrad. That would expand the map to be larger than anything in DCS currently. The main thing is to not slide it far enough north that Bitburg, Hahn, and the other SW German USAFE bases become excluded. It would also be preferable that they are not at the very edge of the map. While Sub pens would indeed be a high value target, this is also primarily a flight sim, Therefore the aircraft and there airbases need to take priority.

 

 

-Woog

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More than half the size of the Caucasus is water.

 

The INMENSE quantity of cities, populated areas, capitals, towns, roads and details makes this size map impossible for actual DCS technology.

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More than half the size of the Caucasus is water.

 

The INMENSE quantity of cities, populated areas, capitals, towns, roads and details makes this size map impossible for actual DCS technology.

 

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s actually the case. In terms of information processing, the potential with the right design philosophy is no more CPU intensive than Dubai or Nevada. Again not huge in terms of gigabytes of data, using the land class methods. Not to mention that loading and offloading of visible objects is a feature being refined by E.D. as we speak. Additionally There is a VERY high probability that DCS 3.0 will use a full globe simulation engine. To create a map like this is going to take a couple years anyway, now we’re in overlapping territory with the next iteration of DCS.

 

We might have different philosophies here, but I am the type of person who rises to a challenge and finds a way to make it happen, This is called progress. While others may be left behind thinking “it can’t be done.”

 

-Woog

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It cant be done, now. As i´ve said, with the current technology.

 

We will see in the mid future.

" You must think in russian.."

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This is not going to happen for any forseeable future.

 

The Normandy map alone, which is basically a pin-prick in your suggestion, took years, have been out several and is still well under developed. The area you have have dozens of major cities, thousands of smaller settlements and a hypercomplex infrastucture. Futhermore, you can't just whop our a WW2 version first or alongside it- the differences are severe, and WW2 buffs don't like modern maps to begin with.

 

The stuff you propose here MIGHT happen (To a degree) at a later point, when ED "Full scale earth" technology is implemented (which is the plan down the line) AND they have substantial terrain making skill. The reason is that DCS at this point can only handle a set amount of objects before it starts hurting performance. That is why they did not expand the Caucasus map further (even though they intended to). Now compare the Caucasus with its extremely limited population and infrastructure to France, Great Britian, Belgium, The Netherlands and Germany... A few objects over the limit I am afraid.

 

You cannot compare to what you have seen in other products. It is an entirely different beast on all levels.

 

Take my post with as many grains of salt as you wish- but I would be extremely surprised if you saw this map realized in a 10 year timeframe. Mark my words.

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I wish we could have something like this, for DCS :

 

 

:D

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I wish we could have something like this, for DCS :

 

 

:D

That looks pretty from high up, but doesn't work if you fly low or roll in tanks. It's totally weird to drive across buildings, lakes and forests painted on the ground :D

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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i would totally buy a central european map, but as others mentioned, it would probably need to be smaller in size, not only because of the potentially high object count, but also because the area would be very familiar to a very large group of dcs users, so that ED might not get away with as big an amount of creative freedom, as they did f.e. on the caucasus (which is a truly great map and looks really realistic, however it surely helps that most users are not intimately familair with the region).

 

that said, i would always prefer a dcs-style map with properly placed ground detail over a bigger map that relies on ortho-images. there is nothing more immersion breaking than realizing that everythign is just "painted on the ground"...

(i am of course aware, that there are some products like the netherlands scenery for another sim, that seem to combine the best of both worlds;))


Edited by twistking
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No idea how EDs underlying map technology works, especially concerning how data is loaded or streamed from the hard drive to memory. Looking at modern space games, we see that the technologies to procedurally create complete high fidelity planets are already well advanced. This requires proper background technology that is very smart at knowing which world objects and actions need to be known by which object or agent in the world and good streaming technology which then seamlessly loads only what is required.

 

Compared to space games, which have a very high degree of artistic freedom, recreating the actual objects of a city probably is the most work intensive part. I wonder how good google streetview might be or something similar (is there something more sophisticated than streetview atm?) as a source material to auto-generate entire cities.

 

Anyway, i'd rather live with the maps we have right now and what will come within the next 2-3 years and let ED work on their map technology for the big-shot down the road. Personally, i'd be ok with a 1-2TB sized globe map.

 

I just hope we will see big strides in the ground level fidelty in the not too distant future. The Caucasus upgrade is very nice and i appreciate the advances in fidelty over the last 2 years. But compared to the incredible ground level fidelty we see in space games or AAA open worlds, there is still a good deal of 'room for improvement' :)

I now, i am greedy...

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I'd also like to see another WWII terrain, but with a focus immediately to the north of the Normandy map and without the permanently placed ALGs, with airfields in Kent and at key positions on the Continent like Abbeville.

 

That would be in keeping with DCS map size limitations and allow for the development of historical missions and campaigns from Summer of '42 to early '45.

Very Respectfully,

Kurt "Yoda" Kalbfleisch

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I really wish that ED somehow provide the sdk to 3rd parties or serious modders so they could add to maps themselves (payware or not) - pending EDs approval of course. The maps would build up so much more quickly. Imagine Normandy (UK area) full of airfields and towns etc - as it should be. Doesn’t look as though Urga media will be doing this though.

I’m sure not quite as simple and straight wards as that though!! Just a thought

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Would be great to have but I also believe with the actual engine used this would not work.

Europe is some of the most densely populated areas on earth with an incredible ammount of infraestructures per square miles. Europe is small compared with other continents but you can hardly find any large unpopulated area with no infrastructures like we have in other maps in DCS.

Just having in the same map cities like Paris, London, Berlin........ It is like having Las Vegas increased in size 10 times per city

 

I think we all want as much more options in sceanrios ane terrains possible so the discussion is not about wanting or not but if this is actuallz possible with the actual engine.

 

I would love DCS using an engine like Outerra. This really has the capability to handle the whole planet with an impressive level of detail. That is really a "World"

 

I hope one day we will get something like this in DCS

 

 

 

 

On the meantime I am enjoying much the new Caucasus, Nevada and the Persian Gulf :thumbup:


Edited by Furia
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If you want to have a poll that means anything, why put utterly redundant and unfair statements into the choices? It renders the whole poll pointless and adds a very unnecessary bias to what could otherwise be a useful tool to ED in making their decisions.

 

Well done for lowering the tone of the debate!

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