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Old 10-14-2018, 07:44 PM   #141
Dudikoff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvsgas View Post
The German Manual states that:
Well, it's moving perhaps 1-2 degrees, certainly not 15 as it should, if I understood correctly.
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Old 10-14-2018, 07:46 PM   #142
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well in line with the established russian flying doctrine of avoiding negative g's. if you want to point your nose away, roll and pull for positive loads.
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Originally Posted by Dudikoff View Post
Well, it's moving perhaps 1-2 degrees, certainly not 15 as it should, if I understood correctly.
you're not accounting for the range reserved for trim.
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Old 10-14-2018, 08:06 PM   #143
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well in line with the established russian flying doctrine of avoiding negative g's. if you want to point your nose away, roll and pull for positive loads.
And the Su-25/27/33 that we also have in the game are not Soviet planes? Nonsense.
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Old 10-14-2018, 08:18 PM   #144
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And the Su-25/27/33 that we also have in the game are not Soviet planes? Nonsense.
mig-21 as well, and bad things happen when you push negative g's in the fighters in particular. they are not designed to be flown in the negative g regime from the drawing board.



with down trim, mig-29 stab deflection is a lot closer to its maximum negative range than you suggest. keep in mind as well that stab deflection is scheduled to airspeed, so there are only certain points in the flight envelope you can achieve maximum deflection.

it doesn't matter what you believe is nonsense, reality says things are done differently. western aircraft are capable of bunting, but the russians are not nato and they tailor their aircraft designs to fit their own way of flying.


edit: the slab pivot is set at an angle to the aircraft centerline and so if slab deflection is measured off the true pivot axis then it produces higher angles than viewed directly from the side.
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Last edited by probad; 10-14-2018 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:17 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudikoff View Post
Was there any conclusion on the very limited negative-g pitch level available?
Trim nose-down works really well for me.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:34 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Dudikoff View Post
Well, it's moving perhaps 1-2 degrees, certainly not 15 as it should, if I understood correctly.
It also says only 5°45' near the ground from 470 to 650 Knots True Air Speed (KTAS)
At what speed and altitude are you testing? How are you measuring the degrees or travel?
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:54 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by SWE-Timberwolf View Post
Just tested the MiG again, just to be sure. Definetly not placebo. It is much easyer to fly now then the first time. If it had nothing to di with the axis controls then I do not know why it started to behave differently for me. Maby I am doing somerhing differently now then the first time without releasing it.
Ok, thanks for the info mate, sadly it doesnt seem to work for me.

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Originally Posted by Terzi View Post
I lowered my axis curve from 33 (which is same for almost all DCS aircraft) to 15. Now I feel more comfortable, but doing small corrections now became difficult. Especially roll adjustments. I will try setting pitch curve 15 and keep the roll at 33.
I dont like to use any kind of curve for my axis, at the end of the day what you improve in some places you worsen in others so I go all the way linear.

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Originally Posted by Lixma 06 View Post
I think the reason for the weird pitch behaviour is the front wing slats.

To test - put yourself in a steady turn at, say, 750kph look behind you and watch your wings. Now start very gradually increasing back-pressure on the stick - sloooowly tightening the turn (and increasing your AoA). At some point the slats will deploy and *bang* the nose pitches up violently.

I think you have a point on this...as soon as the slats deploy the extreme pitch up behaviour takes place...looking at some real life videos that behaviour doesnt seem to happen when the slats are deployed:



to me, it looks like there is not a sudden pitch up when hte slats are extended in this video (and others)
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:55 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by watermanpc View Post
I think you have a point on this...as soon as the slats deploy the extreme pitch up behaviour takes place...looking at some real life videos that behaviour doesnt seem to happen when the slats are deployed:
to me, it looks like there is not a sudden pitch up when hte slats are extended in this video (and others)
Yeah but RL pilots of the mig-29 look like this



Look at the Hydraulic gauges here


So, what I am trying to say: How much of it is the aircraft modeling? How much of it is RL aircraft behavior? How much is the feed back possible to us in DCS to counteract some effect? Lastly, how much of it is their self impose modeling accuracy limitation Wags mentions?

Look how much the pilot moves the stick with the AOA high enough to extend the LEF

Starting at :20 and at 6:52. Also note how much he trims when landing.
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Last edited by mvsgas; 10-15-2018 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:18 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by probad View Post
mig-21 as well, and bad things happen when you push negative g's in the fighters in particular. they are not designed to be flown in the negative g regime from the drawing board.

with down trim, mig-29 stab deflection is a lot closer to its maximum negative range than you suggest. keep in mind as well that stab deflection is scheduled to airspeed, so there are only certain points in the flight envelope you can achieve maximum deflection.

it doesn't matter what you believe is nonsense, reality says things are done differently. western aircraft are capable of bunting, but the russians are not nato and they tailor their aircraft designs to fit their own way of flying.

edit: the slab pivot is set at an angle to the aircraft centerline and so if slab deflection is measured off the true pivot axis then it produces higher angles than viewed directly from the side.
I'll play with the trim settings and compare how it influences the deflection, but if I had that much of deflection as your pictures show, I probably wouldn't be writing any of this. I was landing so the speed was relatively low and still when I checked from the side view, it would barely budge a bit over it's nominal position (which matches the hull extension for the stabilators) while I'm pushing the stick hard forward. At some points during the landing, it was basically impossible to bring the nose down at all. I'll try to get a screenshot next time I encounter this problem to compare.

It appeared exactly the same as the deflection I had at higher speeds, but at lower speeds it felt a bit more responsive.
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Last edited by Dudikoff; 10-15-2018 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:34 AM   #150
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I'll play with the trim settings and compare how it influences the deflection, but if I had that much of deflection as your pictures show, I probably wouldn't be writing any of this.
in the mig-29 pitchdown trim accounts for like 70% [80%, see below] of the total possible deflection physically possible for the slabs -- but it is reserved for trim only. actual pilot input pitchdown deflection is NOT 15 degrees. 15 degrees cited in the manual is maximum deflection, not deflection available to input.

input + trim reserve = max deflection.

why do you need to push nose down during landing anyways? sounds like improper technique. if you're properly trimmed, you shouldn't need to make major attitude changes.

edit:
although there's nothing im reading that asserts that trim range precludes input authority range. would be interesting to hear from yoyo on how this is properly interpreted.
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Last edited by probad; 10-15-2018 at 09:50 AM.
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