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Old 05-29-2017, 09:20 PM   #11
Lunatic98
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How about DCS be as realistic as possible, why are there so many people here that treat it as a glorified strike fighters 2? Most houses don't have "tactical values" neither do rivers but they're here because DCS is supposed to be realistic (it is in fact the most realistic flight sim here, it's way better than FSX/P3D and even has an edge over X-plane apart from lack of world map) If it's there irl and it's practical for it to be there it should be there
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:31 PM   #12
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If you want something realistic and up to date, remove half of the Russian airbases and all Georgian but Vaziani.

I personally want to keep everything as we have today to land my cold war era MiG-21bis on a practical runway.
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:35 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bogey Jammer View Post
If you want something realistic and up to date, remove half of the Russian airbases and all Georgian but Vaziani.

I personally want to keep everything as we have today to land my cold war era MiG-21bis on a practical runway.
Uhm what? Remove all Georgian airbases but Vaziani? Go on google Earth and go to the airbases, they are there, some of them have been bombed and are now disused or are abandoned but that in most cases is the post result of the 2008 conflict which the Caucuses map is centred around. The only airbase and do feel free to correct is Novorossiysk. That's it, all the other bases including the minor ones we can't even spawn at are there, albeit maybe abandoned and now disused but they are still physically there - so removing all Georgian airfields and half the Russian ones isn't realistic in the slightest, as they are still available to be used, just not exactly historically accurate. There are also other airbases in key locations which, while they might not see use as being operational in a combat sense they make good tactical positions, such as the airfield at Poti or Zugdidi...

Plus your argument of not being able to use them as a practical runway? Adding them won't stop you using more practical runways, but the MiG-21 isn't the only aircraft around, adding the new airfield won't force you to use unsuitable runways, you can use the normal runways and forget this airport ever existed, it may serve as a mere land mark to you. But for others it can be more functional.

Going back to unsuitability it's also unsuitable for your MiG-21 to land on an aircraft carrier or a floating platform, or improvised airfields such as grass strips does it mean those shouldn't be modelled?

Ultimately it makes the map more authentic which I'm all for as I want DCS to be as true to life as possible.
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:06 PM   #14
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It's about to be coherent.
If you want all the small airstrips that were always been available, that's fine.
If you want the 2017 version of Caucasus with the latest asphalt runways, you will also need modules of the latest aircraft that we will never have for them, and why not an expansion of the theater to Ukraine and Turkey. The airbases may still be physically here today, but let's face it, they are totally ruined and no more used. I've read about the Bombora base, supposed to be restored for the Russian Navy, but the airbase is still hangar-less on the latest sat pictures. Mozdok, the home of a heavy bomber regiment left almost 20 years ago… Kutaisi is still ravaged and they have not took yet the decision to relocate the ridiculous number of Su-25 left, rotting outside for years, etc…

I posted the MiG-21 example to show that personal preferences makes things even harder to find a compromise. Like you said, it's not era fixed but it is certainly not 2010's friendly either.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogey Jammer View Post
It's about to be coherent.
If you want all the small airstrips that were always been available, that's fine.
If you want the 2017 version of Caucasus with the latest asphalt runways, you will also need modules of the latest aircraft that we will never have for them, and why not an expansion of the theater to Ukraine and Turkey. The airbases may still be physically here today, but let's face it, they are totally ruined and no more used. I've read about the Bombora base, supposed to be restored for the Russian Navy, but the airbase is still hangar-less on the latest sat pictures. Mozdok, the home of a heavy bomber regiment left almost 20 years ago… Kutaisi is still ravaged and they have not took yet the decision to relocate the ridiculous number of Su-25 left, rotting outside for years, etc…

I posted the MiG-21 example to show that personal preferences makes things even harder to find a compromise. Like you said, it's not era fixed but it is certainly not 2010's friendly either.
Why would improving airbases demand updated aircraft?

I'd personally love an expansion into Turkey, I'd love to play around in the Bosphorous strait, however, this topic is about airfields not map expansions...

DCS is a sandbox simulation so if it's there, if you can get practical use out of it (even as a staging post for land units, as some runways are unsuitable some of the combat aircraft we have around.

Again the Caucasus map we have now is from the 2008 Russian-Georgian conflict, if you don't want an airbase because the current map predates it then fine
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:41 AM   #16
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Man this is beginning to irritate me. I can't follow your contradictions anymore. I feel there is actually nothing to debate. I just wanted to tell that an airstrip that saw asphalt in 2017 for the first time, would look weird in a cold war scenario, and reciprocally for the planes. Realistically or not, sandbox or not.
Anyway the Caucasus theater will not be enhanced more than it is planned for the 2.5 version as the official sources said. They just don't even want to append the old Crimea theater data…
I still hope for surprises though, like everyone in this topic.
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bogey Jammer View Post
Man this is beginning to irritate me. I can't follow your contradictions anymore. I feel there is actually nothing to debate. I just wanted to tell that an airstrip that saw asphalt in 2017 for the first time, would look weird in a cold war scenario, and reciprocally for the planes. Realistically or not, sandbox or not.
Anyway the Caucasus theater will not be enhanced more than it is planned for the 2.5 version as the official sources said. They just don't even want to append the old Crimea theater data…
I still hope for surprises though, like everyone in this topic.
Well you said and I quote "remove half of the Russian airbases and all Georgian but Vaziani" which isn't realistic at all - this has been addressed

Then you said "If you want the 2017 version of Caucasus with the latest asphalt runways, you will also need modules of the latest aircraft that we will never have for them" To which I said we have the map as it was in 2008.

Then I said "the Caucasus map we have now is from the 2008 Russian-Georgian conflict, if you don't want an airbase because the current map predates it then fine" meaning that if a new airbase has been added or updated post 2008 it might not be a good idea adding for the sake of historical accuracy.

Correct me if I'm wrong that while a lot of the Russian airbases look different (some drastically so) and at least one Georgian airbase (Kobuleti - the airfield with 2 shorter runways forming an X shape closer to the coast is listed as a military airbase, but the DCS Kobuleti airbase looks completely different and defunct. Apart from that I doubt there have been drastic changes since the 2008 conflict. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken).

Bases that are abandoned/damaged are so as a result of the 2008 (again correct me if I'm wrong) since we have the 2008 version of the map, these should still be operational If you follow my reasoning.

EDIT: I can't find data for Queen Tamar/Mestia airport before 2010 so it's likely it was built post 2008 so if it's it's not wanted due to historical accuracy then that's fine by me...

It is a shame that the Caucasus won't be enhanced or expanded, though they are doing it for free... I still like many hope for surprises (Crimea would be great - it's potential is great). I'd personally like to see the Bosphorous strait and maybe an extension into the Marmara and maybe even further into the Dardanelles and the Aegean (pretty please ED, as a paid expansion I'd go for it). But these are for other threads...

Hope that clears that one up
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bogey Jammer View Post
Kutaisi is still ravaged(...)
O/T, but: what info do you base this on? And please don't say google earth, as the most recent picture there is 8 years old. Kutaisi was renovated in 2011/2012, with a new terminal building, ILS for both runway directions etc.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:35 AM   #19
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O/T, but: what info do you base this on? And please don't say google earth, as the most recent picture there is 8 years old. Kutaisi was renovated in 2011/2012, with a new terminal building, ILS for both runway directions etc.
I'm using Google Earth to find airports, Mestia airport hasn't even been built yet according to it...

Plus we have the map centred around the 2008 conflict, ideally we should have the map accurate to that time. (Poti should be an airfield). Not sure about Zugdidi, whether or not it was built post 2008 or not...
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:01 AM   #20
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Plus we have the map centred around the 2008 conflict, ideally we should have the map accurate to that time.
No we don't. The current DCS map existed well before 2008.

Geographically it's right, and there's been campaigns/missions using that, but the map is of the region well before 2008.
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