Normandy early access gunfire to mutch?

Hi gents,

 

as mutch i like what i have seen from Normandy early access so far on youtube. Cant wait to fly online on a server with nice missions against the nice people from Burning Skies or from Storm of War! So a big thank you and well done to ED.

 

But i am wondering if the gunfire, what i can see from 190 and 109 is not to mutch. I mean the pilot is totaly blinde on the target he is fireing. What do you guys think?

 

As an example:

 

 

How it is for Spit and P-51 i dont know.

 

regards

 

Little_D

Edited May 11, 2017 by Little_D

Well, you won't have that issue with the P-51 nor the Spitfire, because all the guns are wing mounted. So, unless the engine blows-up right while your firing... no issue possible :D

Little D, you're not alone with this observation:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=187184

 

How is it going to be dealt with, remains to be seen.

I would assume it's them still fiddling with the new lighting engine and not how it's meant to be in the end (remember that there's a reason why the 2.x merge release takes so long. You don't want to end up with these things in your release). Could it be that the flashes are placed too high and that they're meant to be lower within the cowling?

 

While we're at it, I hope the damage model for the B17 is also being worked on because kills like the wing-off at 14:40 are just ridiculous. IL2 1946 style damage model ahoy:)

Why? Wouldn't a HE shell hitting a wing fuel tank cause an explosion that could shear off the entire wing?

Why? Wouldn't a HE shell hitting a wing fuel tank cause an explosion that could shear off the entire wing?

 

No, you would get a nice fireball though but the wing structure wouldn't cave under that immediately. That's just Hollywood that does that. Looking at guncam footage (maybe I just have a bad selection) I fail to see any instances of wings being shot off like that.

EDIT: Yes, there is footage of wings being shot off, but those are heavily butchered B17s so it takes quite some sawing until it comes off it seems.

 

There's a reason why attacking B17 formations was done from the front. You wanted to knock the pilots out because knocking everything else out was pretty tough work and needed a lot of ammo.

 

Of course, if someone has evidence of the contrary please present so I may learn. Until then, I consider sub 1 second bursts dewinging B17s a 1946 thing:P

Edited May 12, 2017 by arglmauf

Makes sense I guess. They didn't call them flying fortresses for nothing. :)

There's a reason why attacking B17 formations was done from the front. You wanted to knock the pilots out because knocking everything else out was pretty tough work and needed a lot of ammo.

 

Actually hitting the pilot at over a 1000 kph closing speed aint gonna happen. The pilot is armored from the front, so you would have to hit both pilots btw from the front through the windows. Unlikely.

 

In reality they attacked from the front to knock out the much larger engines, as the engines were the most vulnerable from the front. One wing with both engines out is enough to bring it down. Furthermore and very important was it rather unlikely to get hit by defensive fire at closing speeds of around a 1000 kph. The timeframe of contact was really short, the Fortresses were huge targets and the fighters were small and agile.

 

Actually hitting the pilot at over a 1000 kph closing speed aint gonna happen. The pilot is armored from the front, so you would have to hit both pilots btw from the front through the windows. Unlikely.

 

In reality they attacked from the front to knock out the much larger engines, as the engines were the most vulnerable from the front. One wing with both engines out is enough to bring it down. Furthermore and very important was it rather unlikely to get hit by defensive fire at closing speeds of around a 1000 kph. The timeframe of contact was really short, the Fortresses were huge targets and the fighters were small and agile.

 

 

No disagreement there principally but I'm pretty certain that they tried headons to knock out the pilots and cockpit. If you can hit an engine from headon, you can try to hit the cockpit headon. If a 20 mm (not to mention 30mm) MGeschoss slams into the cockpit headfront, there is not much the cockpitglass can do to prevent the damage. It's pretty lethal even if the pilots survive the controls probably won't.

 

No matter what they actually went for, I don't see a short burst chopping off wings from any angle whatsoever though.

 

EDIT: And yes, approach speed was a problem. Early Me262 pilots had trouble with it since their timewindow for firing was very very short (don't have to the numbers at hand, maybe somebody has them ready). Also tactic wasn't "Only do headons", think they tried a headon on the beginning of the fight, maybe get a lucky shot in. After that, it's probably mostly diving attacks from the rear so the effective On-Target time is higher (as can be seen in many guncam videos).

Edited May 12, 2017 by arglmauf

Little D, you're not alone with this observation:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=187184

 

How is it going to be dealt with, remains to be seen.

 

Hi,

 

thx for info.

 

regards

 

Little_D

I can't wait either Finally a WW2 map no more Caucasus

No disagreement there principally but I'm pretty certain that they tried headons to knock out the pilots and cockpit. If you can hit an engine from headon, you can try to hit the cockpit headon. If a 20 mm (not to mention 30mm) MGeschoss slams into the cockpit headfront, there is not much the cockpitglass can do to prevent the damage. It's pretty lethal even if the pilots survive the controls probably won't.

 

No matter what they actually went for, I don't see a short burst chopping off wings from any angle whatsoever though.

 

EDIT: And yes, approach speed was a problem. Early Me262 pilots had trouble with it since their timewindow for firing was very very short (don't have to the numbers at hand, maybe somebody has them ready). Also tactic wasn't "Only do headons", think they tried a headon on the beginning of the fight, maybe get a lucky shot in. After that, it's probably mostly diving attacks from the rear so the effective On-Target time is higher (as can be seen in many guncam videos).

 

 

First clip is of a head on on a B-24

(1:27), which also carries 2×20 mm MG FF/M cannons -- fired a humongous amount of bullets to the wings of this B-17 (the whole aircraft for that matter), including at point blank. The wings seem to be in good shape. She might have gone down for engine / controls failure or the pilots were dead. It is a sad image to make a point with -- the last part is in many guncam's highlight reels.

 

But one thing is for sure, this aircraft (and others I imagine) can take damage...

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by SeaW0lf

G-2 should carry 151/20's

 

In certain settups also 4xMG151/20 + 2xMK108

I got the specs from Wikipedia, so it might be wrong (many times it is).