I'm Afraid To Buy The FW 190 Dora

This guy explains it clearly and succintly, but suffice to say that the "bounce" is caused by the increasing AoA of the wing, as the centre of mass of the airplane continues down behind the main gears. A pilot must compensate for this when landing a taildragger :

An airplane on landing doesn't behave the same way as a basketball, because it is not a basketball. It has hydraulic landing gears which absorb the shock of landing.

This guy explains it clearly and succintly, but suffice to say that the "bounce" is caused by the increasing AoA of the wing, as the centre of mass of the airplane continues down behind the main gears. A pilot must compensate for this when landing a taildragger :

 

 

An airplane on landing doesn't behave the same way as a basketball, because it is not a basketball. It has hydraulic landing gears which absorb the shock of landing.

I used the basketball as an easy way to test. Otherwise, you'd have to bounce an inflated tire and wheel. A tire is similar to a basketball as both are pumped full of air. The landing gear does absorb some of the shock of impact, but that doesn't eliminate the tire bounce entirely. A softer surface should bounce less. Just like the landing gear absorbs some shock. So does soft ground.

We call those ...MONDAY...TUESDAY...WEDNSDAY..THURSDAY:::::::::::LANDINGS

Good ones always come in on mondays...a friday landing will cost you a case of beer :P

Too high speed, too little flare and not pulling enough on the elevator is the main reason.

I got taught from RL pilots to PULL ALL THERE IS to provoke a stall, this way the plane wont lift again once settled.

It's a very fluid process and one thing grabs into another, dunno if a sim will ever cover that properly. I have my doubts for DCS tbh.

*some full aileron also helps to provoke a wing stall instead of generating lift, obviously you should only do that with wind in mind

We're not on the same page. You're trying to tell me how not to get a bounce and how to correct it after you get the bounce through flying. I know how to land and don't bounce.

I'm talking about when someone screws up and does get a bounce it won't be as bad on the first impact on a softer surface.

I used the basketball as an easy way to test. Otherwise, you'd have to bounce an inflated tire and wheel. A tire is similar to a basketball as both are pumped full of air. The landing gear does absorb some of the shock of impact, but that doesn't eliminate the tire bounce entirely. A softer surface should bounce less. Just like the landing gear absorbs some shock. So does soft ground.

true to some extend but not actually the whole story why there a B...B...B...B landings

true to some extend but not actually the whole story why there a B...B...B...B landings

Never said there wasn't. The question and topic is, will the Normandy airfields being dirt cause less bouncing? I never claimed dirt would stop bouncing if you screw up the landing. If you land like you should you won't bounce on any surface. That's a given, but not what was asked.

Back on topic: Which fighter did you end up buying BuzzU?

Hi,

I think both of you are right. There is an elastic bounce, i.e. what BuzzU describes. The bounce cannot exceed its initial height (if acc. only by g force). And there is a aerodynamic bounce, i.e. what OnlyforDCS describes. Here the bounce height depends on forward speed and AoA.

Gras runways are in fact more forgivin for taildraggers because of the lesser friction of the ground surface in relation to the rubber tires. Its is not the up/down movement that is importent here. It is the side slip movement that is dampned on a grass or better to say "not tarmak" surfaces. The tendency to groundloop because of side slip while touch down is lesser on runways with lesser friction and is there for more forgivin.

greez mugen

Ps: I own both ac but i prefer the 190 over the 109 because the 190 demands a more tactical approach when you want to fight.

Back on topic: Which fighter did you end up buying BuzzU?

I was all set last night to buy the K4. I thought i'd sleep on it and woke up this morning as confused as ever on what to buy.

I keep saying I want a challenge. I should just keep flying the P-51 if I want a challenge. Not in flying, but fighting.

To be honest. If the P-47 was available i'd buy it and never look back. Not because it's a great fighter, but i've been a fan of it as long as the P-51. I'd like to do some ground attacks and some fighting with a good wingman or be a wingman.

It's a big fat overweight bird, but it sure can take a beating.

If I can't stand it and have to buy something now. It will probably be the K4.

All of them are pretty awesome. Im having a lot of fun lately figuring things out in both the K and the Spitfire.

I have to say that the K takes more discipline and precision flying to fly correctly. The Spit is on the other hand is just pure fun.

I don't have the Dora. Ill probably get it at some point, but first I will wait and see what Normandy brings to the table. For one thing better visibility is required to make use of a quick energy fighter like the Dora and the P51. The K is more forgiving, but still works best in ambush attacks and quick hit and runs.

Does the Spit have an overheating problem as bad as some complain about?

One thing I don't understand when I read this forum is the K4 isn't made for B&Z, but the Dora is. The 109 was doing B&Z before the 190's were even made. Why wouldn't it be a good energy fighter? Those were German tactics. It's the only way I used it in IL2 and it worked great.

I sure wouldn't buy the K4 to turn fight. I guess that's all some guys can do.

Does the Spit have an overheating problem as bad as some complain about?

It's not as bad as people are making it out though. It does require more care than the other fighters though. You can't hang on the prop, ever. But if you keep speed up above 180 miles per hour and throttle back when you drop below 180, you will not have any problems.

 

One thing I don't understand when I read this forum is the K4 isn't made for B&Z, but the Dora is. The 109 was doing B&Z before the 190's were even made. Why wouldn't it be a good energy fighter? Those were German tactics. It's the only way I used it in IL2 and it worked great.

 

I sure wouldn't buy the K4 to turn fight. I guess that's all some guys can do.

Yeah, the 109K is a great B&Z plane. However you have to understand that it came before the Spitfire. Against the P51 you can turn fight in it quite comfortably. Against a good pilot in the Spit however, you strictly need to stick to B&Z tactics.

B&Z in the Spit. :)

I think i'll go buy the Spit right now. Then the P-47 when it comes out. That will give me the P-51, P-47, and Spit for the Normandy battles.

I can at least read everything in the cockpit this way. :)

Off I go.

B&Z in the Spit. :)

Thats a bad idea, unless you are hunting Stukas or something :)

That's why I used a smiley. :)

D/L Spit now. I have to read manuals before flying it.

Well, that was comical. Without reading the manual I jumped in the Spit and took off. Just to see what it felt like.

It lifted off quicker than I expected and went into a hard left turn. I gave it full right rudder and saved it. I guess it had a lot of left rudder trim by default because I never touched it before take off. I started to trim it out and the engine quit. A quick look at the water temp had it pegged hot. I guess auto on the radiator is not the right setting for takeoff. I'll open it next time. I belly landed in the grass and got out and laughed. I didn't die and I saved the plane, but I think I better go read the manual now. :)

Take off and climb with 8lbs of boost. You can do more, but it will quickly overheat the engine. You can leave the radiators on auto.

I went left fast but had it gone straight I didn't even make it to the end of the runway. I don't think I had more than half throttle the whole way. Which is why I was surprised it lifted off. It can't overheat that fast? How in the world do you climb and fight?

I'll work with it and read the manuals. DCS and Chuck's. I had to take the pooch for a run.

I'm not impressed so far but i'm still open minded about it. I hope I don't regret not buying the K4.

Taking off and going for hard left turn is a sure sign of taking off wayyyyyy too early.

Trim -1 before take off run, wait for tailwheel to go up by ittself, let the plane run some more, then pull. Not before.

Never let speed drop below 180 MPH with open throttle.

Which means you have to think ahead. E.g., going in a steep climb? Chop the throttle. Open it up again when you recover speed > 180 MPH in the dive. Counter-intuitive, I know!

Taking off and going for hard left turn is a sure sign of taking off wayyyyyy too early.

Trim -1 before take off run, wait for tailwheel to go up by ittself, let the plane run some more, then pull. Not before.

It had a ton of left rudder trim. I'm not sure why because I never touched the trim. It was just a quick takeoff with no thought other than I wanted to see how the plane flew. I know how to take off when i'm serious and actually have my controller programmed.

I thought the whole thing was funny, but I see i'm going to regret mentioning it.

Kind of sorry I bought the Spit now. Not because it's not a good plane. I know it is. It was an impulse buy and I don't normally do that.

I'm really waiting for the P-47 and won't fly anything else once I get it. Meanwhile, I can fly the P-51.

What I really wanted is an extension for the Warthog. It's too short for WW2 planes. I should have put the money I spent on the Spit towards that. Oh well. It's done now.

If I talk about buying any other plane but the P-47......slap me up side the head and remind me i'm waiting for the Jug.

Kind of sorry I bought the Spit now. .

You shouldn't be. Im flying it almost exclusively now, even prefer it to the K. It's the best dogfighter in the game, flies beautifuly, and can even do a bit of damage. :)

Not saying it's a better plane or anything, just that Im having a lot of fun with it.

If you've been reading my posts you should know I don't pick a plane to fly because it's the best plane.

I try harder when i'm the underdog as long as I have good reasons to pick that plane.

I wouldn't hunt with a flintlock rifle if I was the type that needed the best for the job. I find no satisfaction in doing that.

That's me though. If you like the Spit, by all means, fly it. I said it was a good plane and it is.