Any explanation for move to Deferred Shading in 2.5.1 from Devs? - ED Forums
 


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Old 05-15-2018, 08:15 PM   #1
NAKE350
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Default Any explanation for move to Deferred Shading in 2.5.1 from Devs?

I've spent weeks and weeks playing with settings trying to optimise performance of 2.5.1 beta version to try and get both performance and image quality anything like as good as was before DS was introduced and especially in VR. Going back to V1.58 is like a breath of fresh air and wow for quality and immersion. With this in mind, I'm sure I'm not the only devoted player wondering why the move? Has this been explained anywhere please?

EDIT: For reference, observations of Deferred Shading so far.

1) Detail in image quality worse, cockpit text illegible without zooming in.
2) FPS performance down by 30%
3) Cockpits either too dark or rest of world too bright.
4) Sea is almost black except where suns reflections are.
5) Night lights barely visible
6) Delay re-shading scene when changing views. Especially from map back to cockpit view.
7) Plane surface appear over-shiny
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Last edited by NAKE350; 05-15-2018 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:24 PM   #2
imacken
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However much some people may sympathise with your view, I’m afraid you’re stuck with DS, and 1.5.8 will be unsupported some time soon, if it isn’t already.
Don’t know if there has been a proper explanation, but it would be interesting to know the reasons. I’m sure it’ll be a technical reason, not just a preference.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAKE350 View Post

1) Detail in image quality worse, cockpit text illegible without zooming in.
2) FPS performance down by 30%
3) Cockpits either too dark or rest of world too bright.
4) Sea is almost black except where suns reflections are.
5) Night lights barely visible
6) Delay re-shading scene when changing views. Especially from map back to cockpit view.
7) Plane surface appear over-shiny
All of the above especially the loss of definition in cockpit and the "luminous" colours of aircraft outside, since when has olive drab been illuminous?

I know we are stuck with it I've tried to mitigate it in some places, flying at different times etc.
but if you are on a server you have no control over time or weather, it could be midday easily.

Normandy has been completely unplayable for me since 2.5 release I don't see it ever getting any better. It was a complete waste of money.

Why are ED testing lighting fixes for a rural forest area on a desert map ? it doesnt make sense

I like the look of the F-18 but i'm not spending any more money until the basic game and what I have already purchased is fixed. ED is fast losing my support im sorry to say
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:17 PM   #4
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I COMPLETELY AGREE...

You are NOT the only devoted player wondering why the move.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=202460
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAKE350 View Post
[...]
EDIT: For reference, observations of Deferred Shading so far.

1) Detail in image quality worse, cockpit text illegible without zooming in.
2) FPS performance down by 30%
3) Cockpits either too dark or rest of world too bright.
4) Sea is almost black except where suns reflections are.
5) Night lights barely visible
6) Delay re-shading scene when changing views. Especially from map back to cockpit view.
7) Plane surface appear over-shiny
i can understand your frustration, but i think it is important to point out, that none of the issues are an inevitable consequenze of deferred shading, but probably more just bugs and problems from an major engine update that maybe has been pushed to release a bit too early.

for those that may not know: deferred shading is a fairly new technique, but used to great effect in many other games for some years now. it has many potential benefits while it's only major drawbacks are performance tolls on MSAA and very high resolutions (while giving huge potential performance increase in other areas, such as complex real-time lighting).

i think especially for a simulator that has many dynamic elements that affect the shading (seasons, weather, angle of sun/moon) a move to DF and PBR makes sense in the long run, since it should need less manual adjusting for assets/terrains/weather etc. once the lighting is dialed in correctly.

i myself am a little bit dissapointed too, because i feel that 2.5 was not quite ready when it got pushed out, with all the problems concerning night lighting especially.
however i think it does not make sense to argue against deferred shading in general. i would advise to see the problems that exist as bugs and politely demand for them to get fixed in a timely manner.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:21 PM   #6
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I agree, and do see the potential of deferred shading. BUT...

Not "maybe has been pushed to release a bit too early" Instead:

MOST CERTAINLY the major engine update has been pushed to release
FAR too early and in a rushed, erroneous and incomplete manner,
killing the cockpits and a lot of other stuff, especially at night.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:37 PM   #7
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So many people complain “We want 2.5, what’s taking so long?” And now you people complain that they released it to early. People already complaining about features on the ER of he F/A-18. That’s not even out yet. If you don’t like bugs, wait until full release. Stop complaining, report bugs as you find them and let the devs do their job. Thank you.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:58 PM   #8
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From what I have read, Deferred Shading's advantage over Pre-shading is when there are hundreds or even thousands of light sources to contend with, so the added time penalty of the second shading process more than pays off. As there is usually only one light source out there with us and our attention is the detail of cockpit dials and other information, choosing a shading means which negatively affects MSAA and resolution seems a bit odd to say the least. That's why I wondered if the Devs have given their explanation anywhere? I am guessing the time extra time now used for shading is the time the process used to have for carrying out MSAA.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianbaken View Post
So many people complain “We want 2.5, what’s taking so long?” And now you people complain that they released it to early. People already complaining about features on the ER of he F/A-18. That’s not even out yet. If you don’t like bugs, wait until full release. Stop complaining, report bugs as you find them and let the devs do their job. Thank you.
The forum and in particular the thread 'Open Beta Bugs and Problems' is here for us to give feedback is it not? I am doing just that and asked if the devs have given an explanation for the reasons for the change that's causing a lot of 'issues in this beta.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:13 PM   #10
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"4) Sea is almost black except where suns reflections are."

try details "water on high" it make a huge difference for water/sea rendering.less setting also make it black on my rig.

very good work on that point from ED in high settings.

for the other just think "WIP"

As a skinner i would like sometime they stop one day experiment and now close the rules of rough and spec files regarding defferred shading tweaking as soon as possible. i'm fed up to do and redo my skins, with all different way and rules from one module to an other. but anyway. let's be comprehensive on constant evolution process.

It will need time for third party module to update new rules and settings also.

but for me the most important and quick fix to find now is antialiasing vs deffered. What's a pity to still have those horrible AA partial result in 2018, not yet resolved, with overexpensive Nvidia. on XP11, deffered shading and AA are well integrated. it's a huge improvement how light works with different materials, but it's still expensive in perf.
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