F10 map we can draw over it.

Oh jeez, I was about to say in the other thread, I'm not saying like I don't enjoy the ME, but the room for improvement is large if not huge looking 10 years ahead.

The first thing that popped was the Mission Planner in MP to potentially be the place where it could be quite useful, being able to draw and that drawing being drawed at realtime for others in the game lobby could be big for MP clans like Grim Reapers IMO.

Oh and should be a layer so it can be displayed without the drawings if they block something under it, could even be separated to a per-player specific layers and differentiated by color even.

And ofcourse the obligatory cheating thing ... should be a setting in MP whether or not server allows it in the F10 map during gameplay.

As much as this would be a good feature, people would just draw d!cks all over the map

You shouldn't be able to free draw. You should only be able to select a real NATO/GRAU symbols from the side panel and then place them on the map and scale them.

More like a symbols library in the office applications, example:

On the right side of the map you would have a GRAU/NATO selection for all the symbols. Then you would have the most common symbols there that can place on map.

1) Click the symbol on the panel

2) Click the position of the map you want to start / place it

3) Draw to direction to scale

4) click symbol to select it, press Delete to remove it or draw again to new direction.

5) The symbol scaling can as well be made dependent the map zoom level, the symbol will be shown as overlay on mouse cursor when selected and you can zoom the map to set it at right size.

This would make sure that the maps stays clear and informative. There is no one required to learn how to draw well as all the symbols are official vectors etc. There is no need to memorize the symbols as each symbol would have their meaning under them. You have own ones for navy, ground forces, air force etc.

And to make it so that specific users who would be abusing that system, only the CA commanders and masters can do it. One reason to act as a CA player. And then you can get a list of different players added annotations and filter them out or report them. If enough reports comes, that user annotations are automatically hidden or denied to use them anymore. There are ways to make that work at civilized manner (doesn't mean there are never any childish behavior and evil personnel abusing things).

You can consider this requested feature as a compensation to the reality that in a lot of MP servers,

1) very few people talks...

2) no briefing or any planning...

There is no need to talk, the idea is that you do not get magically all the instant updates to your kneeboard/map when you are up in the air and someone does something on the map!

Update only the data when you are in contact. I am talking about "talking over radio" about the reality, where you would literally only have the radio back in the day to inform where you are, where enemy troops are, where you are heading and where you will be at given time.

Both parties on either side of the radio would have their same map open, pencil ready to write. They take the notes of the map coordinates, the landmarks and times. You figure it out then. You draw on the map then the simple symbols that where the other told they are, what is their heading or expected position at given time.

It is not difficult over radio but it is time consuming and it is little hassle.

Today you don't need to do that if your datalink systems works (like Link-16) as your position is updated almost real time to everyone else on the network. Commands are issued to whole units with a simple pointing the screen and drawing with digital pen on it. Targets that gets marked and designated appears to network and all with the terminals can see them and acknowledge them.

In a modern infantry or armors, you have far more technology going than in a F-35 fighter. A tank platoon leader has augmented reality assistance, the 3D maps, visualization of the line of sight of enemy (what the enemy can see) on the spotted location and many other features. The IFV carrying squads allows the squad (and platoon) leader to see from his own terminal the tasks issued, make the plans and that gets distributed to all vehicles and all infantry inside. So when the deployment happens and infantry jumps out of the vehicles, they all know what is the overall situation as they have seen the tactical map.

But we are not talking about 2019 combat but 1970-2003 now. When we are still mostly using just the paper maps, maybe have a moving map or digital moving map in aircraft. The only way to get the updates is the meeting, radio or maybe in some cases the datalink (newer modules).

Why these things shouldn't be made artificially in DCS as magically like being in modern datalinked systems in optimal manner.

The multiplayer in DCS doesn't work correctly like it would be in real world is because DCS doesn't really simulate the ground combat. There is no command structure etc. It is just mainly "bunch of kids" flying around thinking they are Mavericks (Yes, I do completely acknowledge there are real active and inactive pilots out there, but they are rarity) and doing all kind things they wouldn't do in real life. What is little silly that people are demanding a high fidelity modules, with accuracy to details and functions, and then they go to fly and use them totally unrealistic manner! Who cares what is your aircraft flight performance or weaponry, if you are anyways going to fly it like you want to die, because you just press "Respawn"! Why DCS requires HARD CORE game mode, where you have time limited respawn count, your virtual life matters and if you die and you destroy the aircraft etc, you will be out of the multiplayer for even days. You would really start to value your virtual aircraft and virtual pilot life. You wouldn't be there being dumb and dive toward AAA with A-10 to die burning next to it.

And one thing that has caused that is that we do not have the ground units we should have. People make lots of Russia vs rest kind scenarios etc, where there is like 1% of the only possible units there would be on battlefield that makes it super easy to fly and drop bombs and generate feeling that you are great.

ED can always add a tick box in mission option, allowing mission designer / server admins to enable or disable this feature.

It should be in the "easy assistance" modes among "labels".

But it really should be by default only so that when you step out of the aircraft to hangar you get to see updated tactical map and you get copy of that to your kneeboard etc. So midflight you don't magically get data drawn on map unless it is activated as "labels" are.

+1 here. It would make playing someone elses missions much more enjoyable as well. A picture paints a thousand words.

There is no need to talk, the idea is that you do not get magically all the instant updates to your kneeboard/map when you are up in the air and someone does something on the map!

 

Update only the data when you are in contact. I am talking about "talking over radio" about the reality, where you would literally only have the radio back in the day to inform where you are, where enemy troops are, where you are heading and where you will be at given time.

 

Both parties on either side of the radio would have their same map open, pencil ready to write. They take the notes of the map coordinates, the landmarks and times. You figure it out then. You draw on the map then the simple symbols that where the other told they are, what is their heading or expected position at given time.

 

It is not difficult over radio but it is time consuming and it is little hassle.

Today you don't need to do that if your datalink systems works (like Link-16) as your position is updated almost real time to everyone else on the network. Commands are issued to whole units with a simple pointing the screen and drawing with digital pen on it. Targets that gets marked and designated appears to network and all with the terminals can see them and acknowledge them.

 

In a modern infantry or armors, you have far more technology going than in a F-35 fighter. A tank platoon leader has augmented reality assistance, the 3D maps, visualization of the line of sight of enemy (what the enemy can see) on the spotted location and many other features. The IFV carrying squads allows the squad (and platoon) leader to see from his own terminal the tasks issued, make the plans and that gets distributed to all vehicles and all infantry inside. So when the deployment happens and infantry jumps out of the vehicles, they all know what is the overall situation as they have seen the tactical map.

 

But we are not talking about 2019 combat but 1970-2003 now. When we are still mostly using just the paper maps, maybe have a moving map or digital moving map in aircraft. The only way to get the updates is the meeting, radio or maybe in some cases the datalink (newer modules).

 

Why these things shouldn't be made artificially in DCS as magically like being in modern datalinked systems in optimal manner.

 

The multiplayer in DCS doesn't work correctly like it would be in real world is because DCS doesn't really simulate the ground combat. There is no command structure etc. It is just mainly "bunch of kids" flying around thinking they are Mavericks (Yes, I do completely acknowledge there are real active and inactive pilots out there, but they are rarity) and doing all kind things they wouldn't do in real life. What is little silly that people are demanding a high fidelity modules, with accuracy to details and functions, and then they go to fly and use them totally unrealistic manner! Who cares what is your aircraft flight performance or weaponry, if you are anyways going to fly it like you want to die, because you just press "Respawn"! Why DCS requires HARD CORE game mode, where you have time limited respawn count, your virtual life matters and if you die and you destroy the aircraft etc, you will be out of the multiplayer for even days. You would really start to value your virtual aircraft and virtual pilot life. You wouldn't be there being dumb and dive toward AAA with A-10 to die burning next to it.

 

And one thing that has caused that is that we do not have the ground units we should have. People make lots of Russia vs rest kind scenarios etc, where there is like 1% of the only possible units there would be on battlefield that makes it super easy to fly and drop bombs and generate feeling that you are great.

 

 

 

It should be in the "easy assistance" modes among "labels".

 

But it really should be by default only so that when you step out of the aircraft to hangar you get to see updated tactical map and you get copy of that to your kneeboard etc. So midflight you don't magically get data drawn on map unless it is activated as "labels" are.

Don't want, don't use it mate! Tired of rivet counters trying to force everyone to use their standards.

A bump! A really necessary feature.

+1

IMO what there should be is a comprehensive set of symbols and drawings available to mission designers to place on the map (think ArmA 3). Obviously you'd do a set for REDFOR and a set for BLUEFOR, but visible to all players in that specific coalition.

For symbol sets, the NATO joint map symbols and their Russian/Soviet counterparts. As well as things like arrows, circles, crosses, lines etc (again think ArmA 3).

Just have another category "Drawing" or "Symbols and markings" or whatever and just be able to place symbols in the exact same way you would a static object, maybe have the facility to change the colour between maybe a half a dozen or so choices.

Mission designers should also have the ability to draw free hand, with multiple colours available, like you could on a paper map.

The markings made by mission designers would be visible to all players in the coalition the drawings are visible for (maybe allow them to be turned off like threat zones, names etc). But they don't get edited while the mission is progressing, again replicating a paper map.

For individual aircraft, the players should be able to make their own marks (incl. free-hand drawings), and those drawings should only be visible to that specific player or aircraft (in the case of multi-crew). CA is kind-of in a big ditch from pretty much every direction, so not sure what you'd do in the case of a tank platoon.

Of course you can have difficulty options that can be enforced, to make it less strict or more strict.

Personally, I really don’t care if players can see anything on the F10 map or not while actually flying, but some basic drawing tools in the ME would be really nice. If nothing else, develop a way to drop some kind of flag or marker between measuring tool points.

+1 a system for editor like arma3 would be great. And a Zeus function for Game Master to influence the mission live in DCS too would be a dream coming true

Bump, they said 2020 will be the year of basic features update, hope they add this as well.

And another bump, badly missing ME feature.

A bump to keep this on first page. Thanks.

I would keep this up on first page for a while, in the hope ED says something about this. As discussed before sounds like a very easy feature to add and that will bring a lot of potential.

Thanks.

Bump.

Another one!

+1 on this.

Also not sure if been mentioned previously in other threads etc, but it would be very nice to have the option of when you mark a point on the F10 map, the box beside it has the coordinates of the point, and these also transfer over to a page on your standard kneeboard along with the ID you give the point - to enable quick and easy creation of steerpoints/flightplans in the cockpit in VR (thinking F-16, but applicable to most a/c). I believe the F-14 has this sort of thing currently?

Thinking of those missions with randomly spawning targets etc where you can't pre-plan a route in the ME.

Just a better alternative to marking out a route on the F10 map using current system, then swapping back and forth from F10 map to cockpit to enter co-ords into ICP, while hovering your mouse at the general area of each point to get the co-ords.

IMHO this should not be limited to embedded symbols overlay on the map.

Instead this should be the way how you command units in the Combined Arms module.

You do not give waypoints, you issue commands.

So you take a unit (be it a team, squad, platoon, company or brigade) and you command it to specific location.

It is then the AI task to complete the issued command by best of their intelligence.

Like if you issue a command for MBT company to take a defensive positions on specific hill, you get to draw simple ROE lines and times. But you do not have a direct command to units unless you are manning a commanding vehicle.

You would not see units moving on the map unless you are there with some method of visual method, like being there with optics from binoculars, Mk.1 eyeballs, targeting pod, recon pod or even satellite imagery. But you need to be there. Otherwise you only see given commands but not real time status.

The real time status should come over real methods, visuals, radio or in modern times a possible data links. So you will see on the map the last reports over radio, given commands, reports of spotted enemies etc.

Everything is overlaid on the map via such symbols and markings as here.

Current DCS is completely unfair as it has complete direct information of the target types, location and even sides. There is no requirement for spotting, identifying, searching etc targets. All are just straight available as long the unit comes to LOS range.

Having troop location only with commands and such positions, would be far more challenging and interesting too, and radio communications and reports would become primary method to update information.

We need to walk before running. The hability to draw lines, circles and letters does not sound like a hard thing to do, will add a lot of value to missions, and I really hope ED can see it and add the feature as soon as possible.

We need to walk before running. The hability to draw lines, circles and letters does not sound like a hard thing to do, will add a lot of value to missions, and I really hope ED can see it and add the feature as soon as possible.

While it is true we need to walk before running, but adding a graphical elements that you use for that is just adding a another layer of task to be done as you have separated the actual actions/commands and then the graphical presentation of the action/commands.

It would be then main limited only to two things really.

1. Express your mission to players that what is the warfare of units positions. Similar to what can be done already now with just the text, so a colored style. But that is already possible in adding mission briefing images to mission. Could it help? I don't know.
    
   
2. Use it to design your own mission without going first to the details for placing the units etc. This is what I like to do, I design mission first using this kind tools as it is far faster and easier to use real world symbols and markings. And then when you have the situation and commands laid out on map, it can be used to start placing units and their waypoints to DCS editor as you have the "whole picture" first laid out and now you just need to play all triggers and scripting etc to get it work as first designed.
   

So the whole graphical element would not really change anything in the game, as you can't even change it dynamically based what is happening or what is commanded. So it becomes very quickly just old information that doesn't anymore reflect what is happening.

If in other hand we would combine all this now when they are redesigning the AI and developing the RTS elements for requirement of the dynamic missions and campaign, it would come easier work and actually be part of the whole core system.

The DCS missions are extremely strict and low level working. Where AI should be there to assist the player all way through. Like if player creates a mission where it is wanted that specific company moves from A to B, then it should never be required to player start playing around with all small details to get it work as expected, as the AI should be there to follow logic of real military procedures (how to prepare for movement, possibly mount on the vehicles, how to spread units in proper order of movement and time their movement, how to assign scouts etc and then finally start moving as a company would be expected to be moving that specific wanted distance with expected manner. Like advancing a 2 km is completely different thing as moving 50 km). And when the player gets just easy ways with real symbols that are stacked on the map, the AI does all the grass level work.

And when player does issue these commands, it is already automatically done that there is nothing else to do as it is laid out on the map with clear symbols.

We shouldn't be waiting next 5-10 years to get a proper AI and commanding use. Not now when they are redeveloping the ground units for game RTS elements and how to get ground units more realistic.

It really requires to abandon the current old waypoint system and scripting on waypoint etc. And it needs to come more of a dynamic operations by the unit.

Once that is done, having a proper map symbols and commands would be easy.

Altough I agree with you, this post is requesting the hability to draw lines, circles, geometric shapes, numbers and letters only. If you feel like opening a new wish for your needs please feel free to do so.

I dont think we need ED.

You should try Miro, its a free (the lite version is) virtual white board and you can paste the map on to it from your free Snipping Tool then draw over it.

You can then invite your pilots to the white board and all draw on it.

I am sure with some time you could paste nato symbols and just copy/paste them.

I just did a quick and dirty try then and was able to set it up in 2 minutes, I didnt share it to my iPad but its web based so could even be used on iPhone.

Not dynamic but may be a stop gap to test it out.

Give it a try and report back!

Simple drawing tools or even, at least, just the ability to drop right click dots while using the measuring tool.

I dont think we need ED.

 

 

You should try Miro, its a free (the lite version is) virtual white board and you can paste the map on to it from your free Snipping Tool then draw over it.

 

 

You can then invite your pilots to the white board and all draw on it.

 

 

I am sure with some time you could paste nato symbols and just copy/paste them.

 

 

I just did a quick and dirty try then and was able to set it up in 2 minutes, I didnt share it to my iPad but its web based so could even be used on iPhone.

 

 

Not dynamic but may be a stop gap to test it out.

 

 

 

Give it a try and report back!

I tried and it could be very useful, BUT is a outside app, is possible to draw on a copied map, but not to see what you just drawed once flying. Thanks for the tip tough.

With the Kiowa coming, I think is a excellent moment to add this...