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Old 07-12-2019, 08:51 PM   #11
Harlikwin
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Yeah, I love using those on escort missions with the GAZ online. Though I find myself getting killed by radar homers alot, even on the ground.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borchi_2b View Post
Effective firing range means that this is the NEZ of the missile. So basically 6m NEZ, and a higher range on head on engagements
No it isn't. Don't make stuff up. Effective range just means it can shoot down an aircraft up to that range consistently given some unknown to us parameters. What is certain it's that this missile right now runs on magic in DCS.

I wouldn't recommend including it in any MP scenario given that this lightweight ourperforms a Matra magic.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BaD CrC View Post
I love when Fixed wingers suddenly realized that the party is over with choppers.
Wait until the magic helicopter stealth its removed.
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:53 AM   #14
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@GGTharos:
We have been there before right ? So please provide us documents about your knowledge about the Mistral missile used by the french forces, including the info you have about the burntime of its engine and drag coefficient. Then we can compare our info with yours, thanks.

Anything about asking me not to make anything up does not help the conversation

About Matra and the other missiles included in a module of a different developer I am not saying anything, cause it is not my bussiness to judge it either.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borchi_2b View Post
@GGTharos:
We have been there before right ? So please provide us documents about your knowledge about the Mistral missile used by the french forces, including the info you have about the burntime of its engine and drag coefficient. Then we can compare our info with yours, thanks.

You don't have info, you have a bad guess that's based on not understanding the first thing about missile flight dynamics.


I won't write a long diatribe about this, instead I'll say this: Take this to your aerodynamics guy, have him compare it against other missiles. There is a LOT of information out there, including very detailed propulsion information on a number of missiles, including AIM-9L, Magic, and a few others.


You're getting the equivalent performance of an SA-15 missile that weighs 170kg from a 20Kg missile. You might want to believe that this is ok, but that's just hurting your credibility.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borchi_2b View Post
Effective firing range means that this is the NEZ of the missile. So basically 6m NEZ, and a higher range on head on engagements
MBDA describe the Mistral as having a Maximum Intercept range of 6.5 km, which AFAIK is very different to a NEZ.
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
... the equivalent performance of an SA-15 missile that weighs 170kg from a 20Kg missile.
Perhaps more similar to the 73.5 kg RIM-116 ?

Some of the figures in 'Mistral.lua' don't look far off i.e. 3 second acceleration time, 18.7 kg mass - while others such as D_min = 200.0, are obviously wrong (as min range for the missile is 500m) but shouldn't effect the pK of distant targets.



but the acceleration burn lasts for ~5 seconds, rather than then the 3 seconds of the Igla or as seen in youtube videos.



Do you have any idea what's wrong or which values might be suitable to adjust ?

If not, I might ask the same question in the mod forum.
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsay View Post
Perhaps more similar to the 73.5 kg RIM-116 ?

I just looked at the file. Actually I take it all back and I have no objections to it overall. The drag might be too low here and there, but the motor and basic drag seem ok.


Unfortunately with the change in FM, there are values in there that I no longer know how to intepret (but I will certainly try to find out )


Essentially this missile should be down M1 at 19 sec or so. Maybe slightly above, maybe slightly below. On an 'average launch' that should give you around 9km head-on capability, though I suspect the rule of thumb doesn't apply here as cleanly and it will come out to 6.5ish.


But that's no NEZ, after reaching this speed the fins won't be able to maneuver the missile much - so it's possible the lift coefficients are what's incorrect ... it's a complicated matter and right now I take it all back until I do more testing. The missile was quite sprinty before, and I don't know if and when any changes may have been made to its definition.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:40 AM   #19
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@Ramsay: Thanks you.

@GGTharos: Our pleasure.

So I hope this huge discussion can be settled to a more professional tone
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