Contacts not appearing in TWS or BVR

So I get pinged by two Mig-29s dead ahead, AWACS reports on heading, 60 miles, 20000 yet I clock radar to altitude band 17-30 via scan zone up and down, nothing. No blips or anything. I even try MPRF HPRF swapping no dice. Is it a radar problem? maybe my radar got fried but radar screen working?

Hi WildBill, HPRF with a 30 degree azimuth should give you the best chance of detecting this type of target in the F-15.

Factors such as meteorological conditions and relative altitude are also important and can affect your ability to detect targets. If significantly higher than them, for example, and they have terrain behind them, I wouldn't expect to see them much before ~50 miles. Big jets like the Flanker and large support/bomber aircraft will show up much farther out.

So I get pinged by two Mig-29s dead ahead, AWACS reports on heading, 60 miles, 20000 yet I clock radar to altitude band 17-30 via scan zone up and down, nothing. No blips or anything. I even try MPRF HPRF swapping no dice. Is it a radar problem? maybe my radar got fried but radar screen working?

Hi WildBill, HPRF with a 30 degree azimuth should give you the best chance of detecting this type of target in the F-15.

 

Factors such as meteorological conditions and relative altitude are also important and can affect your ability to detect targets. If significantly higher than them, for example, and they have terrain behind them, I wouldn't expect to see them much before ~50 miles. Big jets like the Flanker and large support/bomber aircraft will show up much farther out.

Even though mig29 su27 ect is a "Large" aircraft when standing next to one. In terms of scale compared to a bomber/tanker/awacs like a tu95 bear, kc35 ect ect. they are considered Small. With that being said. The F15 radar is able to see contacts to 60nm and beyond but realistically that's figured into the bomber category or Large aircraft when the radar mode was developed for the sim. While I have at times seen fighters out that far, this was because the aircraft was co-altitude and dead on the nose and I was in narrow search pattern. Even then It if memory recalls I could not lock nor did the contact stay on the screen. how ever I can see the tanker & awacs just fine at those rangers.

In dcs fighter contacts don't show up till like FeeFifofum mentioned less then 50nm. So no, it's not an issue on your end or really on the end of the sim either.

https://tawdcs.org/radar-f15/ this is a pretty neat tool.

When it comes to how well it is simulated the, the radar that is, there are many threads and claims, but I don't think we will see any changes :/ Especially to an FC3 aircraft

I think they messed with the EW modeling in the background. A couple years back it was pretty consistent, HPRF you could see almost anything up to 60 miles unless it was beaming or cold. MPRF worked anywhere inside ~ 25 miles.

Now it seems to be super random and you can see things at 30 miles or further in MPRF sometimes. The old rules still work as a general guide but you run into weird things far more often than before. I've been following most of the changes but I don't recall any official change being made, so not really sure, but seems rather obvious that something changed.

I think they messed with the EW modeling in the background. A couple years back it was pretty consistent, HPRF you could see almost anything up to 60 miles unless it was beaming or cold. MPRF worked anywhere inside ~ 25 miles.

 

Now it seems to be super random and you can see things at 30 miles or further in MPRF sometimes. The old rules still work as a general guide but you run into weird things far more often than before. I've been following most of the changes but I don't recall any official change being made, so not really sure, but seems rather obvious that something changed.

Yeah, I've noticed stuff like that too, and as we know a lot of stuff gets changed behind the patch notes, which we don't know about

Also remember to check radar scan range...can't see target at 60nm if you're only scanning to 40. Might seem basic but those are usually the first things that start to slip when the tunnel vision starts. ;)

on a fourth run, the trouble is, they did appear in TWS after getting really close, I'd say within the published and agreed upon 45 nm, but not the venerable LRS. Also, they were at lower level, with separation of at least 10,000 ft in between us. I did pick them up but after a long fight with MPRF/HPRF, LRS/TWS modes and I do seem to remember that it was easier to spot things.

Question though, the F-15 radar can only be moved up and down not like Flanker radar right and left? because there is scan zone up down right left commands but I dont think it really changes azimuth.

I also noticed that predicted target range (+\-) command maybe this could be the answer? I notice that on moving this the azimuth bars get narrow, but does that mean the scan zone also gets narrow? Because afaiu, narrow FOV and high PRF gives the best chances of spotting a closing fly dead ahead than a receding one fading into background and the notch..

Another question, the NDTWS or break lock command has two entries in controls, which of those can be used to satisfactorily undesignate a PDT from a picture without causing contacts to disappear, if I were to shift PDT to SDT?

You have two AZ settings in the F-15: +/-60deg, which you cannot move (it covers the entire gimbal) and +/-30deg, which is 60deg total (half of the radar screen) and that follows the Captain's Bars/Target Designation Cursor/Acquisition Symbol/whatever else you want to call it :)

All scans are 4 bars are 70deg/sec so you can do the math for how long it takes to completely cover each AZ setting.

As for break-lock commands, why not try them both and find out?

Not sure why not seeing them at 60 miles is important? Neither of you can do anything at that range except look at each other.

Not sure why not seeing them at 60 miles is important? Neither of you can do anything at that range except look at each other.

Perhaps from the standpoint of a 1 v 1, with two equal aircraft being flown by two pilots of equal ability.

20 miles at 1000 knots closure is roughly 90 seconds. I can do lots to lower your chances of survival in 90 seconds.

Not sure why not seeing them at 60 miles is important? Neither of you can do anything at that range except look at each other.

establishing and maintaining sa is only the most important part of the fight...

Perhaps from the standpoint of a 1 v 1, with two equal aircraft being flown by two pilots of equal ability.

 

20 miles at 1000 knots closure is roughly 90 seconds. I can do lots to lower your chances of survival in 90 seconds.

So can he. He knows where they are and they should show soon. It would be foolish if he didn't prepare for the fight. Both of them have no advantage and like I said. Nothing can be done at 60 miles.

You can do plenty at 60nm but that requires tactics and teamwork on both sides to achieve a mission. You can do something as a lonewolf as well but the value decreases a bit. As for 60nm, that apg63 should be seeing mig21s at closer to 80nm, look-down. I wonder why they'd care for this in RL if that capability is so useless.

Please quote me where I said useless? Putting words in another persons mouth is a sure way to start an argument. I'll avoid that.

I also never said I don't see them at that range. I wanted to see what he'd say if he saw them, but everybody responded but him.

Please quote me where I said useless? Putting words in another persons mouth is a sure way to start an argument. I'll avoid that.

oh don't play the "i didn't say those exact words" game with us. you made the assertion that there is "nothing to do" at 60nm, do you think we don't understand the english language?

oh don't play the "i didn't say those exact words" game with us. you made the assertion that there is "nothing to do" at 60nm, do you think we don't understand the english language?

You sure didn't understand that I wasn't talking to anybody but the OP. I wanted to see what he said and then I would have followed with another post with more details.

Now, i've lost interest. Game forums. What a pain. Everybody is an ace.

Both of them have no advantage and like I said. Nothing can be done at 60 miles.

The first one to get a look has an advantage, and there is plenty to be done at 60 miles. What you do at 60 leads to where you are at 40, and what you are able to maintain at 40 is what you have a minute later when you're in initial shot parameters. Sitting around following a tight controller directive is nowhere close to having an actual track file building as an aid.

I wanted to see what he said and then I would have followed with another post with more details.

Just what he needs for a supposed pre-planned set of DLO's:

PHASE II - LONG RANGE INTERCEPT, DAY 2

1. Nothing

2. Can

3. Be

4. Done

5. At

6. 60

7. Miles

You're arguing with people that there's nothing to do at range and first look, after having told OP that already. But now you're falling back on the claim that this was all a lark to start conversation, yet you're unable to hold it with anyone else when challenged?

C'mon, now- don't get mad that you made a faulty declaration and are questioned on it, because your continual response is the same. If you had more to offer, you already would have. And if it was anything that was actually constructive as to what can in fact be done at range, you'd be forced to agree with the contentions made in opposition to your original comment.

Thanks, ace.

Thanks, ace.

OK I think you were addressing me, so I will tell you why. Basicurry, in the campaign Gerogian War, you're supposed to have the bandits locked from afar in compliance with instructions from ABBCCC or that buff with lotsa geeks staring at screens and the clean shaven general or colonel running the show with a cigar and a stache mumbling about how his teen daughter received that Porsche on her Bat Mitzvah day.

My orders were to establish contact, but DO NOT FIRE. That implies I need to see the gerbils before I even think about touching that tit.

In the F-5E this discussion would be useless because the F-5E radar is shit and cant detect anything above 16 miles head on or 10 miles receding. But this APG-63 is supposed to be state of the art, detects stuff at longer ranges, and certainly, could help with a LA shot to force the other man to duck into a notch and lose his Ess Ayeee.. Eww Kayy?

back at it again, buzzU.... Joined 2004 ? hmm. Just go to the F-18 threads and read his posts :S

Sorry for the off topic, I'll delete my post if I have to. Just had enough and wanted to put my comment out there

Thanks, ace.

No problem, grape.

Ok, let's do this again. I have a load of medical problems and last night some were acting up. I was feeling kind of grumpy and didn't feel like explaining myself since I thought what I said was obvious.

First off he should have seen the migs, but that's been covered already. So, he knew the migs were there and obviously they knew he was there too. Even not seeing the migs he should have prepared for the fight. However, no matter what he did to prepare it wouldn't affect the migs until he took action. The migs were in the same position. Of course there's plenty to do, but whether you see the enemy or not. At 60 miles all you're doing is looking at them and preparing. You can't do anything until they're closer. Unless you choose to go defensive and evade.

back at it again, buzzU.... Joined 2004 ? hmm. Just go to the F-18 threads and read his posts :S

 

Sorry for the off topic, I'll delete my post if I have to. Just had enough and wanted to put my comment out there

Back at what? Yes, I started back when Lock On came out and just flew the F-15. What's your point about that or the F/A-18 thread?

Preparation is half of the battle.