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Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9


gregzagk

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Thanks Microvax for going through all the trouble to look into it. All I can say is that myself and most everyone I'm flying with on TS/SRS on the red side are having more disconnect problems than we did in past rounds. Whatever it is, I hope someone can clean it up. It really is pretty bad this time.


Edited by BSS_Sniper

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Okay I did probably more research then necessary, but I have found out a few things.

 

Server is hosted in the National Technical University Of Athens network. So I checked their site for info about their link to the Internet.

 

http://www.noc.ntua.gr/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=14

Last update is a while back but probably not completely outdated.

 

"The INTERNET connection is made to 10 Gbps through GRNET - GRNET (GRNET has 2CH622 Mbps INTERNET connection - Pan-European Research Internet GEANT)."

 

Okay, GRNET is some kind of greek networking/VM hosting enterprise which is connected to GEANT, which is some kind of european research network.

 

​"​GÉANT interconnects research​​​, education an​​​​d innovati​on communities worldwide, with​ secure, high-capacity networks."

 

So lets have a quick look at the GEANT network maps.

http://www.geant.org/Resources/Documents/topology_map-16OCT15.PDF

http://www.geant.org/Resources/Documents/1142%20Global%20Connectivity_october-2016.pdf

Indeed, seems to be correct.

 

And indeed my trace goes through the GEANT network, hits GRNET, arrives at the NTUA network and there gets delivered to the buddyspike Server.

 

The interesting thing is, traffic gets routed through cogentco routers in the USA, which are a pretty big ISP as it seems and probably thats why they have a link to the GEANT network, then hits a node in the UK which seems to be part of the GEANT network but has a link to the GRNET network, even though that is not on the GEANT map. [judging by the reverse DNS "grnet-gws-grnet-gw.mx2.ath.gr.geant.net"]

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=149925&stc=1&d=1476139591

 

So from the moment stuff gets routed to the GEANT network PL happens.

 

Why that is the case is some reaaaal hardcore speculation. The PL we get from the buddyspike server should be the accumulated PL from all the hops that happen before. Since I do not expect the link to the server to be too weak to take a 64byte ping echo per second.

The first address of the NTUA network suffers the same PL pretty much, screenshot is a bad example didnt run it for long enough to even the randomness out.

 

The GEANT box of cogentco has some pl so probably the link to that thing is operating close to maximum. Now the glorious pl mapping of NTR comes to the rescue to determine which PL really is the main cause for packets to the rescue. MTR fires each ping echo slightly delayed, so one can kinda tell the connection between dropped packets to different hops.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=149926&stc=1&d=1476140766

 

The link to the GEANT box in the USA and from that to the one in the UK seems to be pretty much fine, there is sporadic PL but in general they do not seem to be connected.

[discarding ping packets doesnt have to mean other "important" traffic gets discarded in the same way.]

The one machine which really drops a metric ton of packets is the GRNET box which operates the link to NTUA. So it seems to be the GEANT link between GRNET and the box in the UK, which probably causes most trouble. The box in the UK and or US might play a role, but the peaks seem to be very short, since they do not get carried through to the next hop consistantly and also I dunno how they discard ICMP traffic or not. But its pretty much consistant that the NTUA hop and the Server itself only do not respond IF the GRNET inbetween drops ICMP, so probably that link is saturated.

 

What does this all mean ?

Well. Since the link between GRNET and NTUA seems to be sufficient, I would blame GRNET for either A not having enough link capacity to the GEANT or B for routing the entire freaggin traffic through GEANT. I mean I cant imagine they only connect to one network. I checked their own webservers, like traffic which 100% isnt for the NTUA also comes through the GEANT.

[Tested from a few web traceroute machines, 4 out of 5 did go through GEANT.]

 

What also could be the case is that in the GEANT network, none of the routers do reply to ICMP requests, so there is no link from GB GEANT box to GRNET, as one would expect by the link map of GEANT.

In that case, the high PL to the GRNET box could be caused by saturated links INSIDE the GEANT.

 

So yee, it doesnt get clearer then some internal GEANT stuff or not enough link capacity between GRNET and GEANT.

 

 

Main question from me would be why GRNET would be routing all the traffic through GEANT if that is troubled like that.

 

But again further then this I really cant go with my limited knowledge and no knowledge about the topography of the networks. :D

 

Later today I can run the trace from uni, which is connected to the DFN, which is direct member of GEANT. That _should_ take the UK and US geant boxes out of the equation and might give an insight if it is something inside GEANT or just the last link between GEANT and GRNET.

 

From my ISP network engineer PoV, Cogent is indeed an huge and old "transit provider" (international network connected to everybody on the net and reselling connectivity service), but has on more than a few occasions shown issues managing and upgrading their "peering" connections (free links with other networks and organisation that permit them to be connected everywhere and resell this connectivity to others) when saturating. I would not be surprised if that was the case.

Anyway, there's nothing anyone can do apart from working @Geant or Cogent.

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

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I did run traceroutes yesterday while waiting to refuel and had the same results as microvax - grnet.gr had 50-60% packet loss (pinging from UK).

Greg - I know it's Uni network but maybe your IT department can open a fault ticket with grnet and provide above traceroutes? If this is an oversaturated link then probably they can't do anything, but it may by a problem with routing, worth a shot?

Couple of times I came across similar issues in the past and both times they were sorted by ISP (missing or 'left over' routes).

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Wow 60 ms ping increase at the moment it goes to fra.geant.net (Frankfurt?)... Did traceroute. Also 100 pings show 0% packet loss for me (germany) currently...

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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is this confirmed, or just a coincidence? :joystick:

 

I did it twice in a row, right after switching on the radar (after its warmed up) it drops my fps to about 1 and times me out after a few seconds. Switching off the radar again does not stop it.

 

The first time I wasn't paying attention, but the second time several people on my squad got dropped at exactly the same moment. Not everybody, I am just assuming it was based on proximity. Otherwise it would have been a very strange coincidence.

 

I didn't feel like trying it again at that point.

 

As an aside, maybe its an idea to increase or disable lives temporarily so people can at least play? Losing everything to crashes and disconnects makes me not even want to log on.


Edited by iLOVEwindmills
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Its not GRNET as Whisper expected. Its also not GEANT.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=149965&stc=1&d=1476185949

 

Done from uni network, where it directly goes to GEANT via the german DFN.

 

GEANT is obviously fine, since it takes the exact same last hops and has no PL at all.

the GRNET box drops ICMP echo like crazy but forwards them 0 problem so it indeed seems to be cogent.

 

Interesting part was, that If I did tracerouted the GRNET box directly it didnt respond to ICMP echo at all, but the whole Cogent thing was circumvented. So it seems there is different links to GRNET but either they aren announced properly or they are indeed that sparse that simply everything gets routed to Cogent.

 

 

I guess I can simply connect my router to my uni Network via VPN and route all the traffic for given address space through that. But thats obviously not a solution for everyone.

 

But its literally in the middle between GRNET and everyone else so its pretty much nobodys fault. only thing which is to blame is the way le internet works. RIP.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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I did run traceroutes yesterday while waiting to refuel and had the same results as microvax - grnet.gr had 50-60% packet loss (pinging from UK).

Greg - I know it's Uni network but maybe your IT department can open a fault ticket with grnet and provide above traceroutes? If this is an oversaturated link then probably they can't do anything, but it may by a problem with routing, worth a shot?

Couple of times I came across similar issues in the past and both times they were sorted by ISP (missing or 'left over' routes).

 

the GRNET.gr box seems to simply hate icmp echo it forwards fine. the PL is introduced before that box.

 

See muh previous post.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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Wow 60 ms ping increase at the moment it goes to fra.geant.net (Frankfurt?)... Did traceroute. Also 100 pings show 0% packet loss for me (germany) currently...

 

Could you provide the full trace ?

And for telling where something should be located geographically, whois is your friend, there is DNS records which kinda tell you, but they dont all do that.

 

Its likely that your ISP routes the traffic along the route mine uses for contacting the GRNET box directly. Because now its pretty much obvious its cogent which is probably inducing the PL.

 

Last round most ISPs probably didnt route through COGENT.

 

 

Case closed IP random routing life. ;D

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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Are the team registrations automatically distributed ? I followed the link to register (http://www.buddyspike.net/blueflagreg) and received this message without chosing anything :

 

I don't really know what the registration process is good for, just join the server, type red/blue in "all" chat and you are good to go.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"DCS World is the main public build, it has nothing to do with being stable" -Bignewy

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Could you provide the full trace ?

 

see attachment

 

->

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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2 lag deaths in 20 mins. Looks like the server still sucks as bad as ever.

 

Edit: That's 4 deaths in an hr due to lag. Can we setup a gofundme and get this crap server out of greece??


Edited by Caffeine_High
Had to update my lag deaths. Hard to keep up!

***HEY LOOK HERE***

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2 lag deaths in 20 mins. Looks like the server still sucks as bad as ever.

 

Edit: That's 4 deaths in an hr due to lag. Can we setup a gofundme and get this crap server out of greece??

 

I got also this "time outs" and yea it's anoying ;)

 

But what should we do? Pretty shure the guys of Buddyspike are aware of it!

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2 lag deaths in 20 mins. Looks like the server still sucks as bad as ever.

 

Edit: That's 4 deaths in an hr due to lag. Can we setup a gofundme and get this crap server out of greece??

 

I live 20 minutes away from where the 104th server is hosted and would be happy to help over see a move. I think they charge 40 usd a month for co-hosting if we provide the box. Just an idea.

 

Edit: I guess I should say that I am a network engineer by trade, so servers are not something new.


Edited by M0ltar
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I live 20 minutes away from where the 104th server is hosted and would be happy to help over see a move. I think they charge 40 usd a month for co-hosting if we provide the box. Just an idea.

Id offer money monthly to have a better server. Ill have to cancel my "starving kids in Africa" money every month but ive fattened enough of them up only to have Kony steal them anyway.

 

But seriously, ill chip in. Make it happen!

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

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Thx DanielNLl, yeah your provider doesnt route via cogent, so you do not have the problem thats the final proof pretty much I guess.


Edited by microvax

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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This is certainly turning into a more pay to play for the server. I like it. Prevents the hop oners and those that don't know any form of organization.

 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass.

 

— Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.

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