Multiplayer Jester Disable Feature

Hi guys,

Will there be plans for an option to "ban" jester (in multiplayer)? To make it so if someone wants to fly an F14 on a server, that they must have a player as RIO or have no RIO.

Jester is an "AI" and as such will be worse than a human in some respects and better in others. A concern has been brought up by a few people that jester will be abused by people figuring out the very specific situations in which jester gives a superhuman advantage, and using it to "cheat".

Multiplayer servers already have problems with people exploiting every small thing that can be pushed outside its intended uses. I think that anyone who plays on mainstream multiplayer servers can at least imagine a scenario in which this could be a problem with Jester.

This seems rather extreme considering that we have no idea how Jester will play out in servers as of right now. For all you know, Jester could be slightly worse in all cases when compared to a competent player who has bothered to do some amount of practice in the RIO position. That last part is important. Since there is no set standard for player skill on any given server, anyone who chooses to pilot a F-14 would have to (assuming a option exists to lock Jester out of a server) hope and pray that they get a RIO who has bothered to read the manual, learn how to use the radar systems, understand navigation system interaction, and can keep their head on a swivel the entire time they are doing all that other stuff.

I don't know about you but I would rather have Jester than take a gamble on who ends up in the back seat.

There is also potential player-count issues on certain servers and at certain times. If you can't get enough players to occupy a flight of F-14's, things are going to get kinda tricky.

i can imagine this being used by trolls.. Player A doesnt like player B (who flies alone in his F14). Player A jumps into Rio seat, shuts down relevant systems and switches back to his one-seater

The pilot will have to accept anyone who tries to be their RIO.

I just hope it's possible to ignore the requests.

The pilot MUST accept any RIO before beeing able to enter the rear cockpit.

Is not possible to jump inside directly.

Edit. Sniped!

The problem is given how important a RIO is to core functions of the tomcat you would be unable to engage in BVR combat (or at least majorly hampered) without a RIO, and how good jumping in with a random RIO (or pilot for that matter) is pretty questionable.

It seems like some of you guys have never tried multiplayer before. Seat assignment occurs before anyone ever gets into the aircraft right after server connect but before getting in the AC. There's no jumping anywhere. And as mentioned the pilot must accept.

BTW there was already a long and dragged out thread on this issue earlier.

this seems to have gotten derailed into a "possibilities of a dumbass in the back seat" discussion.

The question still stands, will there be the option of setting up a multiplayer server with no jester?

this seems to have gotten derailed into a "possibilities of a dumbass in the back seat" discussion.

 

The question still stands, will there be the option of setting up a multiplayer server with no jester?

Do you have the L-39? If so we can test Multi crew on BF to see if you can or is basically test.

I sure hope not.

This reeks of ..

AI scary

AI bad

AI Kill Me Make Me Mad

exactly...

This is silly, you cannot properly employ the systems of the Tomcat solo from the front seat...it simply cannot be done. It would be like wanting to take a B-17 solo or a JU-88 in IL2 without the AI gunners. Its just not reasonable nor practical.

whatever skill level Jester truly has is not really known yet, but it seems safe to assume theyve tried to model him as closely to a reasonably well trained yet flawed human RIO would be.

It will be no more akin to cheating that the Reds having their datalink while no Nato planes have had it. Its a function of the module.

I sure hope not.

 

This reeks of ..

 

AI scary

AI bad

AI Kill Me Make Me Mad

I'm thinking this also.

OP, your concern seems very broad, do you have some specific concern? Cause, aside from the few helping Heatblur, none of us have this plane and none of us have used Jester or something like it in DCS.

I mean no offense, but your post is maybes stacked upon maybes. Maybe Jester will have some advantage, maybe that advantage could be leveraged to gain an advantage in a fight, maybe people will pick up on that potential, and maybe people will begin to exploit it, and maybe that exploit will degrade everyone else's experience. And all these maybes assume a person sitting in that position would not also offer that same advantage in a more meaningful way.

And frankly, if this does all play out true, then it would be better that Heatblur improved Jester, to bring it more inline with what a person is able to do, instead of developing a server authoritative disable.

this seems to have gotten derailed into a "possibilities of a dumbass in the back seat" discussion.

 

The question still stands, will there be the option of setting up a multiplayer server with no jester?

I have read somewhere that the player themselves can disable him in the settings if they want. This would be somewhat functional in single player since we will be able to switch back and forth between seats there. I don't know about how that would work in multiplayer from a server creation standpoint and if the creator can disable Jester on a whole. However, it would be a horrible idea since it has been confirmed that players will not be able to switch seats mid-flight in multiplayer. It's not possible to properly fly the F-14 with any measure of success without a RIO or access to the rear seat. Servers that disable Jester would probably empty.

so what i take away from this is, no one in this thread wants to RIO so theres no way to tomcat without jester?

interesting logic.

so what i take away from this is, no one in this thread wants to RIO so theres no way to tomcat without jester?

interesting logic.

I mean the details about viewing angle, obstruction, heads-down and the fact he makes errors? They showed that he needs to operate each and every switch, which caused complaints already, that a "human" would enter coordinates much faster.

In general, I don't care if you can disable Jester in MP or not, as I rarely fly competitive on public servers, but I agree with others who point out, that an F-14 with a forced human RIO rather poses some trouble in MP.

You will need a squadron with well established Pilot/RIO teams. That would mean not many public servers will rely on these kind of squadrons and for single pilots on an MP server there is no way to fly the Tomcat without a RIO.

I can rather see public servers enforcing Jester AI and blocking human RIOs to enforce a fair fight, than the other way round.

I can imagine JESTER as being a bit more spatially aware than a human when it comes to keeping track of your bandit during the proverbial knife fight, but that's about it.

It's not like he could see beyond the range of the AWG-9.

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I wouldnt like a omniscient AI jester neither...

it would discourage people playing with a human RIO

I wouldnt like a omniscient AI jester neither...

 

it would discourage people playing with a human AI

He's not omniscient. He can only see what he's looking at. If he's looking at his instruments, he can only see his instrument. If he's looking at a bandit to your left, he can't see one to your right. And if he's looking at the radar, then there's no way he can see something that the radar can't see.

In fact, this issue is probably the one of the subjects of the "two squadrons worth of f-14's" that have been online on an HB test server.

this seems to have gotten derailed into a "possibilities of a dumbass in the back seat" discussion.

 

The question still stands, will there be the option of setting up a multiplayer server with no jester?

hopefully not because it would not make any sense, I don't want to fly with a random RIO and most of the times not with a human RIO.

I wouldnt like a omniscient AI jester neither...

 

it would discourage people playing with a human AI

He can only see what is in front of his eyes, when his head is out the cockpit and looking in the right direction... like a human. And he makes mistakes that he needs to correct...

so what i take away from this is, no one in this thread wants to RIO so theres no way to tomcat without jester?

interesting logic.

I'd rather have Jester than an incompetent human RIO who makes me completely useless in a server.

My take away from all this is you like to make assumptions and not actually understand why people at least want the option of having Jester.

He isn't, he even makes errors! ...and he won't see anything. Heatblur put a lot into the development to ensure this.

He can only see what is in front of his eyes, when his head is out the cockpit and looking in the right direction... like a human. And he makes mistakes that he needs to correct...

if thats the case its amazing

I'd rather have Jester than an incompetent human RIO who makes me completely useless in a server.

 

My take away from all this is you like to make assumptions and not actually understand why people at least want the option of having Jester.

sure.

but I think not playing this module with a friend as a RIO would be a big mistake !

I am eagerly waiting it just for that. And I will gladly do RIO half the times

I'd rather have Jester than an incompetent human RIO who makes me completely useless in a server.

 

My take away from all this is you like to make assumptions and not actually understand why people at least want the option of having Jester.

My take away from all this is you like to make assumptions and not actually understand why people at least want the option of not having Jester.

It has been covered before that you will have a consent window before allowing a human into your RIO seat.

The fact that you can't even fathom how jester could be abused means you fundamentally misunderstand how AI works in DCS. IT IS OMNISCIENT. The only reason it "makes a mistake" is because it was programmed to.