Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

I don't use shipito that often ... but for the Vive release I'll probably use it again.

I never have, but I think I'm going to have to investigate it.

You've had good experiences so far?

I disagree.Specially the "certainly" part. :P

touché :D

Maybe you could post this mass of anecdotal evidence that suggests the latest Vive prototypes are better than the latest Rift prototypes.

I'll give you one reference for 4 reasons:

1) If you can't be bothered providing sources for this "misinformation" you speak of every second post, why should I be bothered to use Google beyond 5 seconds-worth.

2)The source I'm providing is about as solid as you can get, anecdotally.

3)The article is so old, if it doesn't illustrate how many comparisons there would be out there by now, that aren't, as you say, "DK2 vs Vive", there's no hope convincing you of anything much.

4)If the source isn't good enough for you, then, see the tail of point 3, basically.

Tested

The vast majority of these reviews say that they've tried the DK2, and find the Vive better, mostly because they could move around. Those that tried the latest Rift prototype said they seen little difference in the quality of the headsets, or latencies in the tracking methods. Its possible that the latencies could be lower with the Vive tracking, but if nobody can see the difference who cares.

I hope you read enough of the article to get to the point where you realise that you are the one spreading misinformation.

Most people loved the Rift until it was bought out by Facebook. The usual refrain was that Facebook would dumb down the Rift into a social media headset . It didn't happen, Facebook poured even more money into the Rifts development, and content.

 

Then Vive annouced a very good VR headset prototype with tracking inputs. The same people jumped on that bandwagon saying it was the Facebook killer. I guess it didn't occur to them that Oculus would make improvements to their own prototypes, and have far more money, resouces, and R&D to make it happen than their competition.

See my previous response to you.

The Rift is just a sitting experience?

Who said it was just a seated experience?

I hate confusing the issue with facts, and know you find it painful and tedious, but just stick your head back in the sand, and it won't bother you as much.

I don't think the point you are trying to make is the point you are actually making.

You've had good experiences so far?

Yep small and big stuff too. They are great for Amazon and others for products that only deliver to US addreses. It isn't a mystery delivery service .. they show you pictures of the box when they get it and stuff like that. It is a very professional and large business.

Last used them two years ago. Current rules regarding tax I am not sure. It used to be for a package is under $1000 value no tax required. Hopefully Vive will be under $1000AU.

Yep small and big stuff too. They are great for Amazon and others for products that only deliver to US addreses. It isn't a mystery delivery service .. they show you pictures of the box when they get it and stuff like that. It is a very professional and large business.

 

Last used them two years ago. Current rules regarding tax I am not sure. It used to be for a package is under $1000 value no tax required. Hopefully Vive will be under $1000AU.

Sweet. Thanks for the heads-up.

Fingers are firmly crossed it's not over 1k, but let's be honest, importing will still likely be cheaper than retail+AustraliaTax.

I'll give you one reference for 4 reasons:

1) If you can't be bothered providing sources for this "misinformation" you speak of every second post, why should I be bothered to use Google beyond 5 seconds-worth.

2)The source I'm providing is about as solid as you can get, anecdotally.

3)The article is so old, if it doesn't illustrate how many comparisons there would be out there by now, that aren't, as you say, "DK2 vs Vive", there's no hope convincing you of anything much.

4)If the source isn't good enough for you, then, see the tail of point 3, basically.

 

Tested

 

 

 

I hope you read enough of the article to get to the point where you realise that you are the one spreading misinformation.

 

See my previous response to you.

 

 

Who said it was just a seated experience?

 

 

 

I don't think the point you are trying to make is the point you are actually making.

Again just another old review comparing Rift without Touch, and Vive with Wands. Saying the Vive is 15x15 and the Rift 3x3, which is now wrong.

Palmer has stated that the Vive tracking is very good and Oculus has looked at "all" tracking options, and prefer their camera option. I would assume it may make it easier to track all body parts.

There are also rumors lately that Vive may also have a killer app, that some think is HL3. I have no idea, nor care what HL3 is, but a popular game will go along way in helping Vive sell more product to people who might have waited for the cheaper Rift.

Again just another old review

That was the point.

Rift without Touch

Rift doesn't come with Touch

Saying the Vive is 15x15 and the Rift 3x3, which is now wrong.

Old Review.

And if constellation tech comes close to 15x15 I'll eat my smartphone.

And if the overall price (including the extra camera at extra cost - not to mention Touch), still doesn't come close to the cost of the Vive, I'll eat my smartphone.

Palmer has stated that the Vive tracking is very good and Oculus has looked at "all" tracking options, and prefer their camera option.

"We made the wrong decision with our technology - theirs is better" - said no successful company ever

That was the point.

 

Rift doesn't come with Touch

 

Old Review.

And if constellation tech comes close to 15x15 I'll eat my smartphone.

And if the overall price (including the extra camera at extra cost - not to mention Touch), still doesn't come close to the cost of the Vive, I'll eat my smartphone.

 

"We made the wrong decision with our technology - theirs is better" - said no successful company ever

Be prepared to eat your smartphone.

The first prototype Constellation tacking was doing 12x12 months ago.

Rift / Touch and two camera trackers will in all likelihood be cheaper than the Vive system.

1. Camera trackers are much cheaper to produce than the Laser trackers.

2. Samsung should be able to secure custom displays at a much cheaper pricepoint considering their partnership with a major display maker Samsung.

3. And the most important point is Oculus suggesting they will sell their hardware near cost. Considering HTC current financial problems, its likely they'd like to secure are larger profit margin.

Its also quite likely people will be able to preorder the Touch controllers at the same time as the headset.

Its now unlikely that many people will receive the Vive this year, with the majority having to wait until next year. With the Rift already coming of the assembly lines, the Vive's first to market advantage could be shrinking rapidly.

Its also likely that the Vive and Rift will be open for preorders at the same time this year. Most smart VR enthusiasts will take into account price, content, specs, and release time frame before deciding which unit to buy.

Steam has 125 million active users. Huge content advantage for Vive.

 

SteamVR API for Steam content like Half Life 3, DCS or OpenVR API for non Steam content. It won't take long for Vive to have have a ton of content. Sims included.

 

Add to that recent contracts with Lionsgate Studios and HBO, its looking very good for Vive.

Steam does have a lot of content in their Store, little of it exclusive to, or developed by Steam, and all of it is 2D, and unlikely to be 3D anytime soon.

Actually Oculus has the current advantage in VR content since they have been funding and developing VR content for a couple of years longer.

Oculus now has their own game store, and ALL of it is VR.

So no Vive currently doesn't have a huge advantage in VR software content, and unlikely to have it any time soon, because of the tens of thousands software developers currently working on VR content for the Rift. Much of that content could eventually be cross platform, but that doesn't translate to any kind of Steam advantage.

The amount of content available for each platform when preorders start will probably fall in Oculus's favor. Vive may need to have a killer app to save the day in that category.

Wow, I guess Oculus is leading in everything and is unstoppable. Every advantage posted here for Vive is swiftly refuted by your opinions. Thanks for your unbiased input and setting everyone straight.

So your suggesting that I'm bias and your not. Almost every post you make is in favor of the Vive unit for one reason or another. Some I agree with some I don't. If I don't agree, I'll post a reason for it. If you understood my posts at all you'd know I have no idea which one will end up being the better product, but just like you I post reasons why one might be better than the other. If you can't handle a counter argument, maybe you shouldn't post at all.

Of course Vive could win the day, with a good combination of price point, content, specs, etc, but once Vive was announced people seem to assume they've already won, and Oculus hasn't made any improvements to their product over the last eight months. Both teams will delivered improved specs over their last prototype. We simply don't know yet which developer will have the best combination of specs, content, price, and release date to suit our needs.

You say that Vive has the advantage in content, and I just gave some valid reasons why I think they don't.

Others think that Vive won't be anymore expensive than the Rift, I've just gave some valid reasons why the Rift might be cheaper.

I really hope that Vive can pull it off, so I can buy a VR headset as soon as possible. I just don't see Vive being the clear winner, YET.

So your suggesting that I'm bias and your not. Almost every post you make is in favor of the Vive unit for one reason or another. Some I agree with some I don't. If I don't agree, I'll post a reason for it. If you understood my posts at all you'd know I have no idea which one will end up being the better product, but just like you I post reasons why one might be better than the other. If you can't handle a counter argument, maybe you shouldn't post at all.

 

Of course Vive could win the day, with a good combination of price point, content, specs, etc, but once Vive was announced people seem to assume they've already won, and Oculus hasn't made any improvements to their product over the last eight months. Both teams will delivered improved specs over their last prototype. We simply don't know yet which developer will have the best combination of specs, content, price, and release date to suit our needs.

 

 

You say that Vive has the advantage in content, and I just gave some valid reasons why I think they don't.

 

Others think that Vive won't be anymore expensive than the Rift, I've just gave some valid reasons why the Rift might be cheaper.

 

I really hope that Vive can pull it off, so I can buy a VR headset as soon as possible. I just don't see Vive being the clear winner, YET.

As previously stated, the problem isn't necessarily with bias (I'll admit I'm a little biased towards the Vive, myself).

The problem is that you're phony about your neutrality. And you're clearly the most biased one in a thread relating to a product that weighs against your bias, as if to convert people away from the product they're supposedly discussing.

Further to this, whenever anyone mentions something positive about the Vive, you invariably counter, and sometimes with erroneous points, or blustering opinion. It railroads the conversation.

Be prepared to eat your smartphone.

 

The first prototype Constellation tacking was doing 12x12 months ago.

...and yet I'm not all that worried...

Also, Source?

Rift / Touch and two camera trackers will in all likelihood be cheaper than the Vive system.

Its also quite likely people will be able to preorder the Touch controllers at the same time as the headset.

Its now unlikely that many people will receive the Vive this year, with the majority having to wait until next year. With the Rift already coming of the assembly lines, the Vive's first to market advantage could be shrinking rapidly.

more of the same-old blustering stuff...

Its also likely that the Vive and Rift will be open for preorders at the same time this year.

I like how you jammed in the numbered points as if in response to mine, which is made hilarious by the fact your entire post was point-form.

I guess you may provide sources for one of the points I've requested source for... nah...

I totally agree with the EA exec. Especially for sims. Vive has time to grow.

 

Virtual reality: EA exec believes VR won't be a worthwhile gaming investment for five years

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ea-exec-believes-virtual-reality-wont-be-worthwhile-investment-five-years-1529286

It's true that for the big players, it probably isn't worth the return on investment (unless you're Valve, I guess).

There is going to be such a surge in innovation, and most of the early trial and error will be completed by indies. Hopefully though, from that pool, there will be talent that goes on to draw the big funds and go from strength to strength.

Big players might be right to be cautious, but it does mean that they are also behind the curve on best-practice and innovation when it comes to future VR endeavours.

I already decide to wait for StarVR to get on market. I think it is worth it, difference is huge. 210° FOV against 110° by Oculus/Vive.

Most of the so called child sickness will be fixed by Oculus mostly who is already in dev version almost 3 years in public use so Vive already benefit from it. Same will be with StarVR who will come out about year after Oculus and Vive.

Maybe even Oculus and Vive release new model with 210° FOV in that time period. Major difference is actually only in 2 wide screens and optimized lenses for it so it is not rocket science and parts for it already exist on market.

difference is huge. 210° FOV against 110°

You do realize that if you double the FOV, you increase the perceived size of a pixel by four, right? Pixel density is already a problem with only 100 degree FOV. Why would you want to make it four times worse?

For many game experiences the greater FOV will be better to have than a sharper more detailed image.

I can't see that being the case for flight sims but I wouldn't pass up the chance to test the StarVR in DCS or ANY other game/sim.

And StarVR could pull sometghing special out of the bag at the last minute ... something like interchangeable lenses that makes the FOV switchable. You could go from 105 to 210 depending on what game. Anyone who was sitting on the fence would just buy it.

Even at FOV 210 the StarVR will excel in close combat and driving games ... a lot of games sell in those areas.

Virtuix Omni with HTC Vive & Lighthouse Enables Fully Decoupled Locomotion

http://www.roadtovr.com/virtuix-omni-htc-vive-lighthouse-vr-treadmill-decoupled-locomotion/

This is the type of tech, that could open up the world, and not be confined by an unrealistic 15x15 space. I think the Omni locomotion or other treadmill type will need refinement, but it could be the way to go, and would get rid of the Vive presence killer safety grid.

...and yet I'm not all that worried...

Also, Source?

 

Maybe.

 

Cool, So they can find out down the track whether what they bought is all its cracked up to be - sounds like vendor lock-in - sign me up.

 

 

 

more of the same-old blustering stuff...

 

Source?

 

I like how you jammed in the numbered points as if in response to mine, which is made hilarious by the fact your entire post was point-form.

 

I guess you may provide sources for one of the points I've requested source for... nah...

I've got news for you, sources mean very little when your dealing with information that hasn't been released yet.

You've jumped on the Vive bandwagon, with no idea what the final specs, content, price, preorders or release dates will be for either product.

If you have issues with my counter arguments, that's just too bad.

I've got news for you, sources mean very little when your dealing with information that hasn't been released yet.

What? You're so full of it.

I didn't really need the free kick, but ok.

You've jumped on the Vive bandwagon, with no idea what the final specs, content, price, preorders or release dates will be for either product.

I think you call that irony.

If you have issues with my counter arguments, that's just too bad.

What counter-arguments? It's just spam.

Gentlemen,

With all due respect, this thread has deteriorated to the point that it sounds like Chevy Camaro and Ford Mustang enthusiasts arguing over the relative merits of the 2018 models. After a short while those guys just end up yelling at each other since neither can prove the superiority of, or much of anything else, about a product that does not yet exist.

Please take a few deep breaths and relax before someone gets a warning over something silly.

Respectfully,

cichlidfan

EDIT: Not a moderator, just concerned about the well being of all of us. :)

What? You're so full of it.

I didn't really need the free kick, but ok.

 

 

I think you call that irony.

 

What counter-arguments? It's just spam.

With your responses, I am reminded of the Monty Python's argument sketch....

Not sure why people whine when someone makes a counterpoint to their argument. People shouldn't take it so personal. Posting sources that compare a new prototype of one dev, to an older prototype of another has very little merit. It would have merit if both devs were going release their unit exactly like their latest prototype, but that rarely happens, and certainly won't happen in this case.

All I'm suggesting is that people should wait for the facts before making a decision.

Yes I was on the Oculus bandwagon before the HTC Vive was announced, as there was little competition. Now that HTC Vive has been announced I could easily change my mind, but I'll wait for the final specs before making that decision. There is a lot of speculation on which unit will be better. If you don't like my speculation, well again too bad.

Virtuix Omni with HTC Vive & Lighthouse Enables Fully Decoupled Locomotion

http://www.roadtovr.com/virtuix-omni-htc-vive-lighthouse-vr-treadmill-decoupled-locomotion/

 

This is the type of tech, that could open up the world, and not be confined by an unrealistic 15x15 space. I think the Omni locomotion or other treadmill type will need refinement, but it could be the way to go, and would get rid of the Vive presence killer safety grid.

It's a solution, but I think having a rail around your waste is going to be a much greater impediment to presence than chaperone.

Chaperone will be there when it's necessary, the rail around your waste is constant.

Locomotion is a huge problem, and software design is going to trump hardware in the near-term.

With your responses, I am reminded of the Monty Python's argument sketch....

Well, I did state previously how tedious it was, so yes, it does emulate it to a large extent. The premise of that sketch is that one character is disingenuous (and dishonest), forming an argument...