Did hornet pilots deal with this too?

 

The Track IR version might be better, but the way TIR move in a multiplied angle as your real head, it move around a lot and make it hard to press the button, but at least you can lean forward which thanks to the exaggerate movement of TIR make you close to the screen and you don't need to zoom anymore, but the camera is still somewhat wobbly because of TIR precision and your small head movement and you still need to click it with your mouse.

No, none of this is true. I can’t imagine flying without TIR. Button pushing is very easy, and there is absolutely no wobble. Folks just don’t set them up correctly and they say stuff like this. Which in turn makes people not want to buy such an important tool to fly in DCS.

No, none of this is true. I can’t imagine flying without TIR. Button pushing is very easy, and there is absolutely no wobble. Folks just don’t set them up correctly and they say stuff like this. Which in turn makes people not want to buy such an important tool to fly in DCS.

I mean in comparison with the fixed camera or VR headset, the TIR is wobbly, it doesn't make it impossible or really hard/challenging to press button, but this is the hardest way.

And well I love TIR don't get me wrong, but I personally prefer VR.

I mean in comparison with the fixed camera or VR headset, the TIR is wobbly, it doesn't make it impossible or really hard/challenging to press button, but this is the hardest way.

And well I love TIR don't get me wrong, but I personally prefer VR.

Ok, I can accept that. Wouldn’t know as far as VR goes. I’m still waiting for VR to catch up with the clarity of HD monitors before I take the plunge. I’m addicted to the way DCS looks on a HD on a HD monitor on maxed out settings. Once VR gets there ill be getting it.

Little bit OT, after reading this thread I'm considering to buy TM Cougar MFD. Do you guys think its worth it?

 

Thanks.

I also got Monstertech desk mounts and I've arranged the MFDs in the same configuration as the Hornet. You can use 3 MFDs on the top of the desk, without mounts, but for me, it took a lot of time to setup every time, because I use the PC for other stuff as well. With 2 MFDs, it's easy. It of course depends on your desk. You can use a modifier to switch one of the 2 MFDs between a DDI and the AMPCD.

With the 3 MFDs and the Warthog HOTAS, once I finish the startup, I almost never touch the mouse again.

Big +1 for the TM MFCD frames. I only have two as most of my time is spent in the A-10C, but I do use mine to mimic the L/R DDIs in the Hornet.

As for dealing with the switchology, IRL, they aren’t skulking around in the weeds looking for easy kills (sorry public server flyers) where the terrain is a distraction, nor are they generally lurking around target areas where they could get cornholed by a SAM. They are on a plan, at altitude and with enough time and distance to have everything set up for one pass and haul ass.

The workload is, IMO, unnaturally amplified by how (some) people choose to operate the aircraft.

As others said above, the F18 we have is indeed working as intended, as it is pretty coherent with what we can see on the NATOPS.

Also, there's a matter of "school of thought" when it comes to comparisons between Navy and Airforce integrated systems.

The Airforce tends to have more "logic and streamlined" processes and HOTAS integration whereas the Navy seems to rely more on "manual MFD/DDI fiddling".

As in everything military, different frames and related systems are tailored and "customized" for the end user. Navy and Airforce think a bit differently when it comes to stuff like this.

Little bit OT, after reading this thread I'm considering to buy TM Cougar MFD. Do you guys think its worth it?

 

Thanks.

I have Track IR and while I don't think this is mandatory it's definitely in the nice to have category. It increases immersion significantly and makes changing modes / selecting on the DDIs much easier. I just wish I had a third one for the AMPCD.

Big +1 for the TM MFCD frames. I only have two as most of my time is spent in the A-10C, but I do use mine to mimic the L/R DDIs in the Hornet.

 

As for dealing with the switchology, IRL, they aren’t skulking around in the weeds looking for easy kills (sorry public server flyers) where the terrain is a distraction, nor are they generally lurking around target areas where they could get cornholed by a SAM. They are on a plan, at altitude and with enough time and distance to have everything set up for one pass and haul ass.

 

The workload is, IMO, unnaturally amplified by how (some) people choose to operate the aircraft.

I could sign that.

The DCS multiplayer community (and need to remember that majority doesn't do MP) is poisonous by its own mentality for the speed by many of the members. Flying aircrafts by way that is unrealistic, engaging to fights they wouldn't, and operating aircrafts with configuration setups they wouldn't have access, like binding functions to HOTAS there shouldn't be there, or use a keyboard or mouse to flip around things and zooming in to see things visually, using TrackIR to look a six while pulling high G etc.

The best thing that really happens for a virtual pilot experience, is when they use a VR, they use touch controllers, and they bind the HOTAS to have only the functions the real aircraft HOTAS has, and places all the functions as close as possible to the real thing (so if something is on the throttle, it is placed on the throttle. If something has three positions switch, then one hat is made as much possible like that). And no zooming, at all.

It teach more about the reality than anything else, more pleasure from flying the aircraft with all its limitations. The experience to learn that middle of the flight you can't be there flipping switches so easily, you can't look at your six but you need to use mirrors, you need to be prepared for the fight and commit to the tactic you just chosed.

And if we would get a penalty to virtual pilots roster on MP servers if they damage aircraft, get shot down or worse, get killed. It would radically start changing the mentality how people fly. As you would not be able to risk your virtual life as easily for stupid unsafe actions as you would not be able to fly longer.

Many would learn lot of the aircrafts avionics logic and their limitations and benefits by not being able operate them just with a press of a button but actually use their hands.

last time I thought this was a sim and not the actual aircraft itself :)

Emmy and Fri13, you both said it! I have the same opinion, including the HOTAS setup. It's why I tend to not play MP much. Most people don't bother using comms and just go for a quick kill or two until they get killed themselves. I've had a couple of good experiences, with people working together and trying to keep it realistic, but they were exceptions.

That’s precisely why I migrated to a squadron...

That’s precisely why I migrated to a squadron...

Yeah flying with a squad is a totally different thing compared to public MP. Saying that I still enjoy flying on Blue Flag with other squad mates working together.

This remind me of this video :

It look like the perfect experience !

That’s precisely why I migrated to a squadron...

... If there was a more chill option, that's OK with me joining when I can, I'd go for it.

This chill enough for you?

Membership Requirements:

(...)

Full members must complete a minimum of 1 MP sortie each month in their combat coded airframe(s) with a fellow member of the Combat Coded Squadron.

Participate in one official event a minimum of 1 time every two months.

(...)

Our training program is flexible to allow for a short break (less than 2 weeks) to accommodate real life events however trainees are expected to make weekly progress.

476th Flight Event Schedule

European timezone flight nights are held on Fridays at 1900GMT (1800GMT in Summer)

North American timezone flight nights are held on Thursdays and/or Saturdays at 2400GMT

Large scale combined group events (usually bi-monthy) are mostly held on Saturdays usually starting at 1900GMT

This chill enough for you?

 

 

 

 

 

Membership Requirements:

 

(...)

 

Full members must complete a minimum of 1 MP sortie each month in their combat coded airframe(s) with a fellow member of the Combat Coded Squadron.

 

Participate in one official event a minimum of 1 time every two months.

 

(...)

 

Our training program is flexible to allow for a short break (less than 2 weeks) to accommodate real life events however trainees are expected to make weekly progress.

 

 

 

 

 

476th Flight Event Schedule

 

European timezone flight nights are held on Fridays at 1900GMT (1800GMT in Summer)

 

North American timezone flight nights are held on Thursdays and/or Saturdays at 2400GMT

 

Large scale combined group events (usually bi-monthy) are mostly held on Saturdays usually starting at 1900GMT

No, none of this is true. I can’t imagine flying without TIR. Button pushing is very easy, and there is absolutely no wobble. Folks just don’t set them up correctly and they say stuff like this. Which in turn makes people not want to buy such an important tool to fly in DCS.

Well I always had lots of wobble, but I came around this pretty well with TIR pause mapped to the Pause key and an AHK script that would press that one both upon depressing and releasing the Windows menu key, basically transferring it into a blip switch for the TIR. Downside of that setup just was I had to get my hands off the HOTAS completely, as I pressed that key with the left one and did the mouse job with the right one. But I was / am doing this by heart and it is the quickest cockpit clicking I can do at the moment, by far. I even think in VR it's wobbly and I totally miss a key to temporarily freeze the HMD tracking. That's why I don't use mouse, but VR controllers instead which brings it's own issues like hitting my stick when trying to manipulate the right DDI, simply because it stands in the way in my setup. And VR zoom really feels strange, makes the controller inputs super sensitive and it's far easier to hit things without the zoom. Just using it to read or aim A/G stuff mostly. Worst thing about that zoom is that it literally takes ages to zoom. Zooming on a screen can be instant at a keypress.

Well I always had lots of wobble, but I came around this pretty well with TIR pause mapped to the Pause key and an AHK script that would press that one both upon depressing and releasing the Windows menu key, basically transferring it into a blip switch for the TIR. Downside of that setup just was I had to get my hands off the HOTAS completely, as I pressed that key with the left one and did the mouse job with the right one. But I was / am doing this by heart and it is the quickest cockpit clicking I can do at the moment, by far. I even think in VR it's wobbly and I totally miss a key to temporarily freeze the HMD tracking. That's why I don't use mouse, but VR controllers instead which brings it's own issues like hitting my stick when trying to manipulate the right DDI, simply because it stands in the way in my setup. And VR zoom really feels strange, makes the controller inputs super sensitive and it's far easier to hit things without the zoom. Just using it to read or aim A/G stuff mostly. Worst thing about that zoom is that it literally takes ages to zoom. Zooming on a screen can be instant at a keypress.

I run the TIR with smoothing maxed out. And I have dead zones set for both X and Y Axis. Between the smoothing and dead zones camera stays locked forward unless I make a deliberate movement. Once I do move and look at something between the smoothing setting and running it on the precision setting, I really don’t have any wobble even when zoomed in on a target outside the cockpit. You just need to spend a little time setting it up in the TIR software and then again in the DCS controls for dead zones etc.

I run the TIR with smoothing maxed out. And I have dead zones set for both X and Y Axis. Between the smoothing and dead zones camera stays locked forward unless I make a deliberate movement. Once I do move and look at something between the smoothing setting and running it on the precision setting, I really don’t have any wobble even when zoomed in on a target outside the cockpit. You just need to spend a little time setting it up in the TIR software and then again in the DCS controls for dead zones etc.

Smoothing maxed out here as well. But I don't use deadzones as I feel uncomfortable with the movement suddenly kicking in or it's speed relaton chaning anywhere. That's why I use totally linear settings. 4 on the main axes, 1 on roll and 2 on the translation ones (4 on Y though, dunno why TBH, set this up ages ago and it works well). That's the most stable I could ever get out of it, still need the freeze key. Must be me, might wanna call it PIO as well. And, I run a TIR4. I heard the 5 would be more precise and probably picking up less jitter. But that never justified buying it for me. The wobble is minimal anyway, but it's there. I just kept wondering when watching YouTube videos of the famous guys here that their view is perfectly stable everytime. As I do even get that in VR, it must be PIO

Mine is the 5. Maybe that’s it.

My Yaw axis looks like an inverted V. Where yours is flat. That’s really interesting. Seems like you would have to move your head a lot where I move mine a few inches and Im looking at the tail. I also use the regular track clip. Not the pro.

I could sign that.

 

The DCS multiplayer community (and need to remember that majority doesn't do MP) is poisonous by its own mentality for the speed by many of the members. Flying aircrafts by way that is unrealistic, engaging to fights they wouldn't, and operating aircrafts with configuration setups they wouldn't have access, like binding functions to HOTAS there shouldn't be there, or use a keyboard or mouse to flip around things and zooming in to see things visually, using TrackIR to look a six while pulling high G etc.

 

The best thing that really happens for a virtual pilot experience, is when they use a VR, they use touch controllers, and they bind the HOTAS to have only the functions the real aircraft HOTAS has, and places all the functions as close as possible to the real thing (so if something is on the throttle, it is placed on the throttle. If something has three positions switch, then one hat is made as much possible like that). And no zooming, at all.

 

It teach more about the reality than anything else, more pleasure from flying the aircraft with all its limitations. The experience to learn that middle of the flight you can't be there flipping switches so easily, you can't look at your six but you need to use mirrors, you need to be prepared for the fight and commit to the tactic you just chosed.

 

And if we would get a penalty to virtual pilots roster on MP servers if they damage aircraft, get shot down or worse, get killed. It would radically start changing the mentality how people fly. As you would not be able to risk your virtual life as easily for stupid unsafe actions as you would not be able to fly longer.

 

Many would learn lot of the aircrafts avionics logic and their limitations and benefits by not being able operate them just with a press of a button but actually use their hands.

+1 x 1,000,000