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Old 07-31-2020, 04:17 PM   #181
Ironhand
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Originally Posted by Top Jockey View Post
...

In my not very scientific tests; 300 kts speed, 1000 ft above sea level, roughly level flight (near 0º pitch), 2 AAM, and very low internal fuel, I give a sharp pull on the stick - to nose up attitude, and pause the sim after 1 second passed:

MiG-29A
- using Deflection Limiter Override : attains 50º - 55º nose up

Su-27
- using Deflection Limiter Override : attains 20º + nose up
- using "Direct Control" (ASC) : attains 70º + nose up
Just for fun, I ran your experiment with slightly different parameters. MiG-29A with max weight and Su-27 stripped down so that their respective gross weights were as close as possible, though still 2000 kG apart with the MiG being lighter. I ran until their swing rates began to slow, then averaged the time. Starting airspeed 600 km/h.

MiG-29A: 61°/sec (it only took 1 second)
Su-27: 22°/sec (took 3 seconds)

I guess you can see where the MiG-29's famed nose pointing ability comes from.
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:38 AM   #182
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Review of the real pilot of the MiG-29 flight model in the DCS

Quick translation: there are many discrepancies in the DCS flight model with the real MiG29. The MiG-29 is one of the easiest aircraft to fly and land. Landing on the MiG29 is easier than on a modern Airbus

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Опять все заново который раз))))) . Если честно то я использую только одну функцию модуля любимого самолета - красивые обои МиГ-29((((. И каждый раз пытаясь на нем полетать ощущаю разочарование и опять откладываю в долгий ящик. Потому что не может быть так , что на самолёте на котором ты отлетал кучу лет было летать тяжелее чем на куче других самолетов на которых ты не летал и даже не знал заданных параметров захода на посадку. Тем не менее есть элементарные методики их определения и после пары минут любой самолет элементарно сажается . Тут же зная все до мелочей происходит постоянная борьба с самолетом особенно на этапах захода и посадки . Конечно , его можно посадить и нормально и почти отлично и это иногда получается, но это не тот самолет и он заставляет напрячься чтобы более менее хорошо это сделать. Если бы так было в жизни , я думаю , не досчитался бы многих своих товарищей и не уверен что выжил бы сам Еще раз поторюсь, реальный МиГ можно сажать ковыряясь одним пальцем в носу . Вся молодежь после училища вылетала на нем самостоятельно без всяких проблем. На моей памяти только у одного летехи были серьезные трудности из за которых его и списали. Даже Airbus , на котором я летаю сейчас с его fly by wire несколько сложнее на заходе и посадке МиГа .
В общем то модуль для упрощенного варианта не плохой, но посадочные режимы конечно не соответствуют прототипу. Видать поведение математической модели отличается от физической при точном копировании графиков из учебников . Что конкретно отличается тут уже много раз обсудили .
Что касается видео , то тут ничего удивительного , за мгновение до касания , когда самолет уже почти не летит , иногда хочется его еще мягче досадить поддернув РУС, но тут скорость уже настолько мала, что как правило это уже ни к чему не приводит, кроме морального удовлетворения, а самолет сам тем временем плавно касается обжимая амортизаторы . А чтобы РУС не упирался в живот надо от него избавляться ( от живота) .
По сравнению с Л-39 наш 29-й не имеет тенденцию к взмыванию , в то же время приличный запас тяги и бешенная приёмистость сильно облегчают заход и посадку .
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:11 PM   #183
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Go figure. Anyone thinking the FC3 "PFM" flight models are anywhere close to the real thing are kidding themselves. They are good for producing certain numbers like turn rate, radius and thrust to weight ratio but that's mostly it.
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Old 08-01-2020, 01:21 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Ironhand View Post
Just for fun, I ran your experiment with slightly different parameters. MiG-29A with max weight and Su-27 stripped down so that their respective gross weights were as close as possible, though still 2000 kG apart with the MiG being lighter. I ran until their swing rates began to slow, then averaged the time. Starting airspeed 600 km/h.

MiG-29A: 61°/sec (it only took 1 second)
Su-27: 22°/sec (took 3 seconds)

I guess you can see where the MiG-29's famed nose pointing ability comes from.
Thank you for your time experimenting this stuff.
I've re-learned to appreciate the MiG-29 again, and knowing an aircraft's "weaknesses" is part of knowing it better.
(In its case, the rapid speed / energy bleed while hard turning copmpared to others, as amongst several reasons it isn't FBW controlled, does need more AoA for the same Gs, etc.)

Eventually managed to get better with it while ACM against AI opponents... however the Su-27's ability to not bleed speed so quickly (much like an F-16) when chasing the AI's JF-17 in sustained turns, did cause a very good impression on me.

On this kind of "experimenting" , tipically I test both aircraft with the respective fuel quantity for roughly 3 - 4mins. full AB... but I guess the way you've done (full internal fuel) highlights even more the MiG-29's pitch rate (nose pointing ability).

Also, if one pays the due attention, the MiG-29's supposed small Turn Radius does allow to get on the opponents 6 o-clock in somewhat better position (not so large turning room) than other fighters... provided one doesn't lose too much speed to get there either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flаnker View Post
Review of the real pilot of the MiG-29 flight model in the DCS

...

Quick translation: there are many discrepancies in the DCS flight model with the real MiG29. The MiG-29 is one of the easiest aircraft to fly and land. Landing on the MiG29 is easier than on a modern Airbus
Yes, it was posted already at post #158, but would also be interesting to know the pilot's opinion on turn / pitch performances, speed bleed rates while turning and that stuff.
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Old 08-01-2020, 06:12 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Airhunter View Post
Go figure. Anyone thinking the FC3 "PFM" flight models are anywhere close to the real thing are kidding themselves. They are good for producing certain numbers like turn rate, radius and thrust to weight ratio but that's mostly it.
They have shown that the FC3 PFMs are just as accurate and well done as the PFMs of full fidelity planes. This was all finished with the MiG-29 being last with its PFM coming out in 2018
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:56 PM   #186
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They have shown that the FC3 PFMs are just as accurate and well done as the PFMs of full fidelity planes. This was all finished with the MiG-29 being last with its PFM coming out in 2018
Sure. That's not what I said though.
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:24 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by AeriaGloria View Post
They have shown that the FC3 PFMs are just as accurate and well done as the PFMs of full fidelity planes. This was all finished with the MiG-29 being last with its PFM coming out in 2018
That's not a complement to FF modules then
Anyway, now, when ED is considering making FF 29 smth might change for the best. If it becomes full fidelity of course
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:48 AM   #188
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That's not a complement to FF modules then
Anyway, now, when ED is considering making FF 29 smth might change for the best. If it becomes full fidelity of course
What ? MiG-29 SMT ?
I fully agree - keep them comming !
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:20 PM   #189
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Review of the real pilot of the MiG-29 flight model in the DCS...
And we know he's a real MiG-29 pilot because?...
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:35 PM   #190
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And we know he's a real MiG-29 pilot because?...
Because it's pretty obvious if you spoke russian...
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