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F-8 Crusader


MrDieing

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Modernised Essex class in Vietnam, full of Crusaders.

cv31-bw-plain.jpg

 

Yes I know.

 

They are doing the ww2 Essex for the F4U, no word on a modernized one for the F8, though it would be sweet.

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From their Chirstmas update

http://leatherneck-sim.com/2019/12/22/christmas-update/

 

 

Finally, an early gift! We have decided to show the very early stages of the Crusader’s cockpit. It is still a work in progress and the version shown in the renders above is strictly for our programmers to start implementing basic systems. Some assemblies may not be modeled 100%.

During the course of our research, our team has come upon three modifications within the ‘J’ variant. Our goal is to model the ‘J’ to its fullest, so we have decided on airframes AFC571 and subsequent, that includes a pulse doppler function added to the search, acquisition and track modes of the APQ-124 radar.

This will give users the options of using the AIM-9G Sidewinder with the new Sidewinder Extended Acquisition Mode or SEAM, a facility which slews the optics through a search pattern to acquire the target, or allows slaving of the optics to radar!

F-8J_Cockpit_LP_000.jpg

F-8J_Cockpit_LP_001.jpg

 

 

F-8J_Cockpit_LP_002.jpg

F-8J_Cockpit_LP_003.jpg

 

 

Wait, does this thing have a RWR?

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That's not actually correct. If you perceive RWR as merely an indicator such as one in F-18 or SPO-10, than reconnaissance RF-8G had those too. Later versions were equipped with AN/ALR-45. As for the fighter variant of the Crusader, both F-8H and F-8J had various types of ECM and warning equipment provided as a part of Shoehorn program.

F-8J for instance was equipped with AN/APR-27 missile warning system, AN/ALQ-51A Deception Jammer and Track Breaker and AN/ALE-29A Chaff and Flare Dispenser System. AN/ALQ-51A was later replaced by heavier, but quite effective AN/ALQ-100 Deception Jammer and Track Breaker, that was designed to provide azimuth, elevation, and range deception against fire control radars.

 

Finally, since airframe change 490, F-8J was equipped with AN/APR-30(V) Radar Homing & Warning System (same or similar as in F-4B Phantom). I admittedly am at a loss how AN/APR-30(V) system looked like :) This is one piece of a puzzle that I'm still researching.

But you most definitely would have some form of RWR with an audible warning provided by AN/APR-27 and visual by a SAM warning light being lit. You have to remember guys that this is a 1968 aircraft. Back in the day threat from SAMs was a primary source of concern and only with introduction of Phantoms and AIM-7s (and Soviet counterparts), air-to-air radars and radar missiles were beginning to be recognized as a viable threat to other aircraft.


Edited by Hiromachi

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Not for nuthin' but when I was flying Huey's and OH-58's back in the mid 70's, we were getting APR-39's installed and we were being trained to distinguish between various tones in order to be able to identify what type of radar was painting us. The display looked just like the ones we see in the Hornet and Tomcat though. :pilotfly:

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I've found basic papers about it. Turns out there was no separate display and APR-30(V) was using radar display to provide warning for various bands (C-Band, S-Band and X-Band).

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Actually, while you're posting Hiromachi, any word on whether we can get Magics on the Crusader?

 

After all, we have the Grom on the Fishbed and our Fishbed never carried the Grom but our Crusader is pretty similar to the E(FN).

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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Actually, while you're posting Hiromachi, any word on whether we can get Magics on the Crusader?

 

After all, we have the Grom on the Fishbed and our Fishbed never carried the Grom but our Crusader is pretty similar to the E(FN).

 

Decision is not up to me to make and I think it's a bit too early to comment on that one. But speaking purely from researcher perspective, I recall that most of the changes implemented in French F-8E(FN), ended up later in F-8J. That includes weapon systems (AWG-4) I believe, so there seems to be little difference from hardware standpoint.

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That's not actually correct. If you perceive RWR as merely an indicator such as one in F-18 or SPO-10, than reconnaissance RF-8G had those too. Later versions were equipped with AN/ALR-45. As for the fighter variant of the Crusader, both F-8H and F-8J had various types of ECM and warning equipment provided as a part of Shoehorn program.

F-8J for instance was equipped with AN/APR-27 missile warning system, AN/ALQ-51A Deception Jammer and Track Breaker and AN/ALE-29A Chaff and Flare Dispenser System. AN/ALQ-51A was later replaced by heavier, but quite effective AN/ALQ-100 Deception Jammer and Track Breaker, that was designed to provide azimuth, elevation, and range deception against fire control radars.

 

Finally, since airframe change 490, F-8J was equipped with AN/APR-30(V) Radar Homing & Warning System (same or similar as in F-4B Phantom). I admittedly am at a loss how AN/APR-30(V) system looked like :) This is one piece of a puzzle that I'm still researching.

But you most definitely would have some form of RWR with an audible warning provided by AN/APR-27 and visual by a SAM warning light being lit. You have to remember guys that this is a 1968 aircraft. Back in the day threat from SAMs was a primary source of concern and only with introduction of Phantoms and AIM-7s (and Soviet counterparts), air-to-air radars and radar missiles were beginning to be recognized as a viable threat to other aircraft.

 

Maybe this could help as the 27 it´s supposed to be an evolution of the 25.

 

https://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/p/anapr-25n-scx-band-radar-homing-warning.html

 

https://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/p/anapr-27.html


Edited by NaCH
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Oh 27 is not a problem. 30 was :)

 

Also, AN/APR-27 is just an audible warning, whereas AN/APR-25 utilizes a more advanced and easy to track for a pilot display panel.

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Finally, since airframe change 490, F-8J was equipped with AN/APR-30(V) Radar Homing & Warning System (same or similar as in F-4B Phantom). I admittedly am at a loss how AN/APR-30(V) system looked like :) This is one piece of a puzzle that I'm still researching.

 

Good luck with your research! This is something I haven't managed to find either. Do you know when airframe change 490 was enacted? Did these F-8J's with such changes make it to the remaining Crusader fleet before their last actions in Vietnam in 1972?

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I have found basic documentation describing it. Looks like AN/APR-25 system with strobes indicating threat however it does not have separate indicator like the one mounted for AN/APR-25 in F-4B / F-4J post 1966 - 1967. It's using radar screen as a display. And yes, Im pretty sure those changes were incorporated prior to 1972. A 1969 Supplemental NATOPS Flight Manual indicates them along with installation of AN/APR-27 sound warning, AN/ALQ-100 ECM, AN/ALE-29A Chaff and flare dispenser and introduction of SEAM.

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I have found basic documentation describing it. Looks like AN/APR-25 system with strobes indicating threat however it does not have separate indicator like the one mounted for AN/APR-25 in F-4B / F-4J post 1966 - 1967. It's using radar screen as a display. And yes, Im pretty sure those changes were incorporated prior to 1972. A 1969 Supplemental NATOPS Flight Manual indicates them along with installation of AN/APR-27 sound warning, AN/ALQ-100 ECM, AN/ALE-29A Chaff and flare dispenser and introduction of SEAM.

 

Hey that's awesome news! I had no idea the Crusader had this capability at all. Sounds like the radar screen would have to be switched between a warning mode and combat modes. Not too detrimental as the radar screen would primarily be only used for night flying and the use of SEAM on the AIM-9G.

 

Sometimes the things you learn from researching them makes flying them that much more fun.

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Actually no, you can combine the two, so that RWR works in background. It's not perfect but as manual states: "If the pilot desires full-time use of the azimuth-range indicator for the airplane radar, yet wants an immediate line-of-bearing display for emergency threat conditions, he can select override mode. With the override switch in ON, the azimuth-range indicator does not present threat lines of bearing unless a missile launch threat is received from the APR-27 receiver. When this condition occurs, the azimuth-range indicator reverts to a lines-of-bearing display, presenting lines of bearing to the emergency threats."

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Actually no, you can combine the two, so that RWR works in background. It's not perfect but as manual states: "If the pilot desires full-time use of the azimuth-range indicator for the airplane radar, yet wants an immediate line-of-bearing display for emergency threat conditions, he can select override mode. With the override switch in ON, the azimuth-range indicator does not present threat lines of bearing unless a missile launch threat is received from the APR-27 receiver. When this condition occurs, the azimuth-range indicator reverts to a lines-of-bearing display, presenting lines of bearing to the emergency threats."

 

This is incredible. I am only getting more hyped for your Crusader! Any chance you can share these documents with us? I'd like to learn more but I understand if you can't since if it's paid for or you have an NDA.

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This is incredible. I am only getting more hyped for your Crusader! Any chance you can share these documents with us? I'd like to learn more but I understand if you can't since if it's paid for or you have an NDA.

 

No you're not the only one, I'm just pumped for this incredible aircraft! Also, is there a general time frame we can expect? i.e. 1 year, or 2 years?

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No you're not the only one, I'm just pumped for this incredible aircraft! Also, is there a general time frame we can expect? i.e. 1 year, or 2 years?

 

It was stated by Hiromachi in this thread or another that no time frame can be offered at this time. It is still very early.

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F-8 pulls off quite some alpha in some of those vids! Also had a look at a Vne chart for it recently, and it's gonna be an excellent dogfighter for the cold war servers.

There's a reason why it was reffered to as The Last of the Gunfighters ;)

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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