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Harrier worth half off?


Gwalker99

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Hi,

 

I'm interested in buying this, but can anyone tell me how it runs?

 

I have an old system - i5-3570k, 16GB RAM and a GTX1060 6GB. I'd be running it in 1080p.

 

Black Shark 2 and A10 run quite nicely for me, but I'm aware that they are quite old in comparison.

 

Many thanks, in advance,

i5-12400F, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX, MSI RTX4060 8GB, 1TB Corsair Pro NVME.

Finally, I can run DCS!!!

 

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Hi,

 

I'm interested in buying this, but can anyone tell me how it runs?

 

I have an old system - i5-3570k, 16GB RAM and a GTX1060 6GB. I'd be running it in 1080p.

 

Black Shark 2 and A10 run quite nicely for me, but I'm aware that they are quite old in comparison.

 

Many thanks, in advance,

I have a slightly newer system then you but not hugely.

 

4790k and a 1070. Run at 5760x1080 and it runs lovely. I have found that all the aircraft run very similarly to each other.

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I just wanted to correct this statement:

 

 

Its just not true that those features are unique.

Nothing more I said:

 

 

I wrote no personal opinon in that thread. On the contrary, I even adviced the OP to build his own opinon.

 

 

 

 

You can have a personal opinion from me if you like, but that has nothing to do with anything like that I would get not enough personal attention as you are saying:

The Harrier is longer in EA then most other modules.

The Harrier has more show stopping bugs then all other modules together. (Take a look in the bug sections, maybe you need some reminder if you haven't flown it a longer time...)

Bug reports are ignored over years.

A complete other module was developed and released in between.

Since July (4 months) there are no updates on the Harrier.

I would strongly advice to not buy it until all bugs are fixed and it is complete.

Not because its a bad aircraft, I have hundreds of hours in it and a lot of fun.

But because of the points written above.

 

"Showstopper (in development): Any impediment that prevents all further progress; especially a software bug that must be fixed before any further development is possible.“

 

THAT is what you are saying and it's simply not true! I am sure you do not deliberately try to give false statement, but likely were not aware of the meaning.

Still for native speakers this is heavily misleading.

The Harrier has bugs, and is in EA for a long time as is the C-101, both due to the fact both were going through major version changes of the DCS World API. In case of the C-101 it is even far longer, but as you are not interested in the C-101 you are likely not aware how long...

The bugs it has are not more or more critical than other modules, they are just better documented and openly discussed.

Another important fact is Razbam unlike other 3rd parties did go in recess and looked at the issues, acted accordingly and fixed a lot of the old bugs and finished the majority of open systems. They even go forward and implement features that were not part of the original plan (JDAM).

I don't know why you are so hostile and seemingly want Razbam to fail.

I want them to succeed and get the AV-8B Harrier finished and love that they still are open to add new stuff, despite the constant negativity. :)

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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If you say that the bugs on the Harrier are not more, and / or not more critical then on other modules, you are clearly not useing the Harrier. Or you maybe only fly a little bit around with it.

CTD, not working hardware inputs and systems that just stop working are showstoppers. Or tell me how you can drop that GBU when you can't slew the Tpod, then it won't laser and oh, I forgot, you won't get that far because you get a CTD already on aligning.

So lets try the siderms in the next step. Oh, they are not going off the rail. God knows why.

If I may give you an advice: Fly the Harrier exclusively for one or two weeks. With all it systems and possibilities. Then we talk again about show stopping bugs.

Oh, I forgot, Razbam also move bug reports to the resolved section even they are not fixed for years.without any comment.

 

 

As I don't own the C101, I can't say anything about that module.

 

And you are makeing a big mistake:.I don't want to see them fail. I want to see them getting their a** up and fix / finish their module.

Once again: 4 months since the last update!

So what should we do? Applaud them? For playing tricks on their paying customers?

The most nice thing I can say about RB is that the OP should build his own opinion. And that was what I did.


Edited by viper2097

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I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules

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If you say that the bugs on the Harrier are not more, and / or not more critical then on other modules, you are clearly not useing the Harrier. Or you maybe only fly a little bit around with it.

CTD, not working hardware inputs and systems that just stop working are showstoppers. Or tell me how you can drop that GBU when you can't slew the Tpod, then it won't laser and oh, I forgot, you won't get that far because you get a CTD already on aligning.

So lets try the siderms in the next step. Oh, they are not going off the rail. God knows why.

If I may give you an advice: Fly the Harrier exclusively for one or two weeks. With all it systems and possibilities. Then we talk again about show stopping bugs.

Oh, I forgot, Razbam also move bug reports to the resolved section even they are not fixed for years.without any comment.

 

 

As I don't own the C101, I can't say anything about that module.

 

And you are makeing a big mistake:.I don't want to see them fail. I want to see them getting their a** up and fix / finish their module.

Once again: 4 months since the last update!

So what should we do? Applaud them? For playing tricks on their paying customers?

The most nice thing I can say about RB is that the OP should build his own opinion. And that was what I did.

Both the issues you gave as examples I have never had an issue with although you and others may have.

 

I find the harrier is on par with many of the other modules, all the planes have there bugs. Most of the planes are early access. Razbam may not be as forward with what they are currently upto but I'm sure they are always working.

 

You do seem to be the kind of person who digs as deep as they can to find any big you can, then you jump up and down demanding attention from the development team. Props to you for looking and rasing bugs but attacking the team constantly isn't maybe the most mature way of approaching the situation.

 

Why don't we stay in topic rather then launching at the Devs again.

 

For me for half price the harrier is well worth it. It's fair enough though development that it can do nearly any task, it has its usp if VTOL. And just is great fun to fly.


Edited by TomCatGoad
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Thanks so much for your answer. I got home determined to purchase it and......

 

It's back to regular price.

 

DOH!

 

Still, I know now, so if and when it is reduced again, I will be quicker off the mark.

i5-12400F, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX, MSI RTX4060 8GB, 1TB Corsair Pro NVME.

Finally, I can run DCS!!!

 

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...and they do fix them, as expected.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4092413

 

And they are just bugs and no showstoppers, and they are not different from what other modules experience, especially the ones still in Early Access, so I don't understand this extreme Razbam/Harrier bashing, unless it has something to do with you feeling ignored with your bug reports, although Razbam is working on the module, just not giving feedback and acknowledgement on every single bug reported.

Yes, it would be nice if they could spare the time to give more feedback, but on the other hand that time is better invested in fixing bugs and getting JDAM integrated.

My statement still stands, the AV-8B N/A Harrier II is worth it's money and though still in Early Access and having some bugs, you can have a lot of fun with it and enjoy a great air-to-ground platform, while it's still getting better and better.

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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Thanks so much for your answer. I got home determined to purchase it and......

 

 

 

It's back to regular price.

 

 

 

DOH!

 

 

 

Still, I know now, so if and when it is reduced again, I will be quicker off the mark.

Wags noticed a Steam sale being close, as well.

Since there is the option to move Steam keys to DCS, that may be an option:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3751441

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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...and they do fix them, as expected.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4092413

 

Are we talking about different modules / Devs? Did you ever took a look at the bug section?

Bugs are reported over years with not a single comment, neither a fix.

Bug reports get moved without any word to the resoveld section, and they are not fixed.

ONE(!) bug got now a response and probably a fix in the next update.

Once again, no bugfix, neither any kind of update since 4 months.

 

I like this comment very much: (Source)

At half price maybe, but not really a bargain imo. The thing is, if you just want surface level detail, bugs that exist for literally years and so forth then by all means. And honestly its fine for the first few months you own it since you are learning it. Then you start going deeper, reading the tac man and other docs and then you start to realize all is not well. Then you one flight you are like fuuuuuuu. Its missing xyz, and abc are bugged etc. And then some tosspot comes and tells you its EA or some bollocks, and you look at every other EA module that is getting fixed and updated faster/better. Then you rethink it or consign yourself to "it is what it is" but its certainly not what I would call "brilliant". YMMV...

 

 

Shagrat, if you are fine with the quality of the Harrier and the behavor of Razbam its also fine for me.

If not working core functions and CTDs as simple bugs, and not showstoppers for you, thats ok for me. But accept it that this is just your opinion - for me those are showstoppers.

But when I bring up hard facts, don't talk them away with a helpless phrase like "You don't get enough attention, thats why you are bitching at Razbam".

Grow up and discuss facts with facts, not with any personal opinions you think that you have about me.

 

Everyone else I would strongly advise to build his own opinion on facts, not phrases. The forum is full of both, they just need to be seperated.


Edited by viper2097

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Are we talking about different modules / Devs? Did you ever took a look at the bug section?

Bugs are reported over years with not a single comment, neither a fix.

Bug reports get moved without any word to the resoveld section, and they are not fixed.

ONE(!) bug got now a response and probably a fix in the next update.

Once again, no bugfix, neither any kind of update since 4 months.

 

I like this comment very much: (Source)

 

 

 

Shagrat, if you are fine with the quality of the Harrier and the behavor of Razbam its also fine for me.

If not working core functions and CTDs as simple bugs, and not showstoppers for you, thats ok for me. But accept it that this is just your opinion - for me those are showstoppers.

But when I bring up hard facts, don't talk them away with a helpless phrase like "You don't get enough attention, thats why you are bitching at Razbam".

Grow up and discuss facts with facts, not with any personal opinions you think that you have about me.

 

Everyone else I would strongly advise to build his own opinion on facts, not phrases. The forum is full of both, they just need to be seperated.

When you look at the changelogs of the last couple years you will notice, that virtually ALL modules including old and new ones get bugs fixed. Some of the fixed bugs on those modules were around for years, others surfaced multiple times.

It is nothing special to the Harrier or Razbam.

Modules like the C-101 are in Early Access far, far longer than the Harrier and that is not uncommon producing modules for DCS.

What are may be critical bugs to you are not "showstoppers" as they don't prevent the further development or fixing of the module. As I tried to explain, this is an important detail in the wording! Showstopper (related to development) stands for a problem preventing further work or fixing on a product! This is misleading, as you imply the Harrier can't be worked on, while these bugs are not fixed. The correct term is "critical bug" or "bug preventing the proper use of xyz", but they are per definition not showstoppers.

I personally did not encounter more than two or three CTD issues in the last months, and one wasn't even related to the Harrier.

I'll dig a bit deeper and try reproducing these issues and see if I was just lucky the last year... I hope in the end we all want to see Razbam succeed with the AV-8B N/A Harrier II module. :)


Edited by shagrat

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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Guys, showstopper is a colloquial term, and as such it lends itself to be used in an ambiguous manner. What I mean is that I don't think the both of your actually understands what the other means to say.

 

Viper, pick another expression that exactly express what you mean, or describe it such that your meaning can readily be understood. Then a conversation can be had over the critique expressed, and maybe a fruitful discussion can be had.

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Guys, showstopper is a colloquial term, and as such it lends itself to be used in an ambiguous manner. What I mean is that I don't think the both of your actually understands what the other means to say.

 

Viper, pick another expression that exactly express what you mean, or describe it such that your meaning can readily be understood. Then a conversation can be had over the critique expressed, and maybe a fruitful discussion can be had.

 

Dude, you all speak German right (at least based on your location)? I mean I know there are differences between Hochdeutsch and Österreichisches Deutsch etc. (and I'm not gonna get the swiss into it) But really? Go drink some beer, chill out etc.

 

I think shagrat is missing the point. Yes all modules get fixes, some more than others. But Vipers complaint I think is valid IMO. It looks pretty bad when one day all the bugs just get moved over to the "Solved" section, and they haven't been (This happened). You can clearly see that people weren't too happy about it either. And you do have bugs that have been around for nearly 2 years without so much as "yeah we know" from razbam.

 

I mean I dunno, maybe the grand plan is to add all the functionality or halfway do it, and then go back and fix all the bugs and add the remaining parts. But that doesn't strike me as particularly effective way to do it.

 

PS: I'm still waiting on moving target compensation and wind compensation...

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I'll dig a bit deeper and try reproducing these issues and see if I was just lucky the last year... I hope in the end we all want to see Razbam succeed with the AV-8B N/A Harrier II module. :)

Of course I would like to see Razbam succeed with the Harrier. I really like the Harrier, and honestly, after the cat, it is maybe together with the Viggen the module I fly the second most.

So I'm not bitching around because of lack of personal attention, I don't get tired of bitching around because I really fell in love with the Harrier and want it to work properly. Thats why I have a problem with the behavor of Razbam.

And as Harlikwin said, (I had the same experience) as long as you only scratch the surface, everything looks fine, but the more you like the aircraft, and the more you dig into it, the more you see what big mess it is. And then you try to help Razbam with provoding bug reports, take the time to search everything in the NATOPS, provide it to them on the silver tablet, and it just get ignored, nothing gets fixed, and instead another module is being developed.

Then there is the big promise that now everything will change, and everything will be finished and that it is worked full steam on the Harrier. Then, no update since 4 months.

So why should we, paying customers, not feel like they are playing tricks on us?

 

What are may be critical bugs to you are not "showstoppers" as they don't prevent the further development or fixing of the module. As I tried to explain, this is an important detail in the wording! Showstopper (related to development) stands for a problem preventing further work or fixing on a product! This is misleading, as you imply the Harrier can't be worked on, while these bugs are not fixed. The correct term is "critical bug" or "bug preventing the proper use of xyz", but they are per definition not showstoppers.

 

Guys, showstopper is a colloquial term, and as such it lends itself to be used in an ambiguous manner. What I mean is that I don't think the both of your actually understands what the other means to say.

 

Viper, pick another expression that exactly express what you mean, or describe it such that your meaning can readily be understood. Then a conversation can be had over the critique expressed, and maybe a fruitful discussion can be had.

 

Dude, you all speak German right (at least based on your location)? I mean I know there are differences between Hochdeutsch and Österreichisches Deutsch etc. (and I'm not gonna get the swiss into it) But really? Go drink some beer, chill out etc.

 

Maybe we should clean up terms:

If I search the definition of "showstopper", google write me, that it is "an obstacle to further progress".

This is the exact definition for the bugs I'm talking about, which are disturbing the most and which are not getting any attention by Razbam.

In that context, a showstopper is a bug, that prevents me from finishing my sortie with success, if I would have been able to do it without the bug. Especially if there is no workaround.

(And workarounds shouls also be never an argument for something broken)

 

Example:

CTD at startup -> If I can't even get off the ground, I can't finish a sortie. Known since more then a month.

Laser stops working -> If I can't guide my bombs into the target anymore, my sortie has failed. Known since 1 1/2 years(!!!), not even a single comment on it.

TDC Can't be slewed with a Ministick -> If I can't slew the TDC to designate a target, how could I finish a sortie? Known since EA release, not a single comment on it.

Sidearm won't go off the rail -> If the Sidearm won't get off the rail, how should I be able to finish my sortie?

 

That's just some small examples for showstoppers. So should we also come to some examples for the *perfect* behavor of Razbam?

No "." when entereing a frequency the first time -> This is an annoying bug since I don't know when. One after the other says he is also faceing it. It is sooooo easy to replicate. Razbam is ignoring it, and probably not even taking a look at it without any trackfile. Any further questions stay unanswered.

Waypoints show as 0.0 and without bearing -> Would even consider to add this one to the showstoppers, however, known since nearly three months, not a single comment.

TPod point tracks and lasers while masked -> I would go as far to say that this is already some kind of cheating. Known since half a year. Not the slightest response.

 

And I won't even start to talk about those smaller bugs, which you find out when you start to really dig into the module, which also gets fully ignored by Razbam:

Wrong values in the VREST page or a stuck bitching betty

 

Or do you fly in VR? Maybe you have not yet expected that bug?

Belive me, I can't describe how annoying it is. Ignored since a 1/4 year.

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Wags noticed a Steam sale being close, as well.

Since there is the option to move Steam keys to DCS, that may be an option:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3751441

 

 

That's a great idea, I had no idea it was possible. I will keep an eye out.

 

Salute!

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Finally, I can run DCS!!!

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just got it today.

 

Ive been playing the Thunderbolt 2 since 2012, and the Harrier is my first expansion.

Ive been flying it all day. Or at least trying to learn the tutorials.

 

im quite the menace in it. But i can tell you this, the 200 knot difference in speed alone is exciting. being used to the hog.

 

thoroughly complicated.

 

So im having trouble with my tutorials when it comes to knowing where to look or what a term is or the little DCS quirks.

 

but its been alot of fun. I sure do like the TACAN better in the Harrier than the Hog.

 

but at the moment i dont even have many heys or hotas bound.

 

Down to it.. the top notch choices (if you are asking about 35 dollars as an expense)

you have the Viggen the 21bis and the Harrier. after that its korea, or ww2 models.

 

I havent learned how to multiplayer yet.. so learning the viggen for my "fast missions" is a little much. the BIS is only 24 though.. but i havent personally flown it.

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Down to it.. the top notch choices (if you are asking about 35 dollars as an expense)

you have the Viggen the 21bis and the Harrier. after that its korea, or ww2 models.

 

In terms of completeness and lack of bugs both the Viggen and 21 are better choices. They are all different airframes/missions though YMMV.

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Fact incoming.

 

I started up the Harrier a month ago. Started engines, switched on most systems, turned the INS to ALIGN SEA and BAM. CTD, no logs, no track, right out of DCS, upload your crash data to ED. Which i do.

 

Went to forums. See several posts on CTD for INS, cant work out which one to post in but RB forum manager DECOY replies 30th October:

 

Thankyou for sharing this one. I can confirm it's fixed and will be released on the next update. 

This was caused by an old .dll

OK...

 

OK, can't fly it online, a week goes by. New patch.

 

Try it, BAM, crash to desktop when switching the INS switch.

 

I return to the forum, and asked why it's not fixed. Reply was,

 

Sorry we were not told the update was coming this week. 

Will see if I can get the files for you to add yourself until the update. 

I waited until the next patch. Well at least there was a good Mirage update anyway. Jumped on favourite MP server. Started up, turned INS switch to ALIGN SEA. BAM.... CTD, three releases in a row. It's now 26th November.

 

It is currently like that. No mods, reproducible, reported, not specifically in the bug tracker and I can't use INS in a cold start.

 

I'd like to tell you how much I love the Harrier, but I forgot. I either can't take off on the Tarawa due to "YOUR FLIGHT IS DELAYED", or I CTD.

 

I prepared a Cambridge Dictionary verification of the term "broken" in case somehow language was a barrier to certain people. It's for review at the end of the video.

 

I was so confident I could show you first time I live streamed mid post. Am I talking incorrectly? Is there some opinion and subjectivity in my post? Do I lack basic fact or evidence? Yes I am guilty of frustrated tone in my language. I hope that comes across, I am very frustrated. For the rest, You be the judge:

 

 

 

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The Harrier is worth it even at full price.

 

Amd folks in hell will pay a premium for oce water.

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Just curious, but does everyone have the INS CTD and/or the other mentioned bugs?

 

Yup...

 

And dont forget the famous or is it infamous now? I can't recall broken ccrp ASL line. That only took a mere year to fix. Needed to drop bombs from 2018 to mid 2019? Well smoke you, that wasnt a priority to fixed on the ol bomb truck harrier, but please buy our next EA module that we promise will be released as complete, but in reality was rejected by ED QA on the first go, and allowed to proceed as a hot mess EA on the second. Half a year later still missing a pile of stuff.


Edited by Harlikwin

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