DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

Except Sweden was/(is) neutral ;)

Hm... well, calling it neutral is stretching the truth a bit...

The (unoficcial) collaboration with NATO has been going on for a loooong time. Sometimes I believe the Swedish Airforce was doing a lot more than the Swedish government even knew about. A lot of equipment was more or less designed for an easy adaption to NATO standards.

There are rumors about two sets of equipment at some airbases. One that fitted the connectors at Swedish aircrafts, and one set that you didn't ask about and that had no labels etc..

And there has also been a lot of intelligence exchange. That is one of the reasons why we had airplanes shot down over the Baltic sea...

Regarding the "not a realistic scenario": I did my military service in the Royal Swedish Marines on the northern sector of the Swedish Baltic coast during the last years of the Cold War. More than once did the Swedish airforce (using Viggens) chase nosy Soviet aircraft and ships away. They didn't fire but they DID intercept. All our training was aimed at keeping SSSR away from our borders.

This is the official aircraft identification manual given to Royal Swedish Airforce pilots and I think the cover of the 1987 issue speaks for itself:

Regarding the "not a realistic scenario": I did my military service in the Royal Swedish Marines on the northern sector of the Swedish Baltic coast during the last years of the Cold War. More than once did the Swedish airforce (using Viggens) chase nosy Soviet aircraft and ships away. They didn't fire but they DID intercept. All our training was aimed at keeping SSSR away from our borders.

 

This is the official aircraft identification manual given to Royal Swedish Airforce pilots and I think the cover of the 1987 issue speaks for itself:

 

I would love to get my hands on that book, is that a Tu-16 Badger?

Like the one the only flying AJ-37 today is painted in.

I'm just going to be "that guy" and point out that the only flying Viggen we have in the world is an AJS, not an AJ. ;-)

Mattebubben, great post. If I understood correctly the AJS-37 WAS NOT capable of carrying the swedish variant of the AIM-7 Sparrow?

I'm just going to be "that guy" and point out that the only flying Viggen we have in the world is an AJS, not an AJ. ;-)

That's good for LNS' purposes, honestly.

It's a civil registered aircraft and everything. Warbirds don't tend to have a lot of classified systems. Having a working example they can sample for sounds, get PIREPs of, flight envelopes, and other such data is the name of the game when making a sim.

Having not only a pristine example to examine, but an airworthy example that has fair amount of flight time in civil hands? The only way it could be better is if someone in Leatherneck actually owned one and kept it as his own personal warbird.

I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to make the AJS-37 as opposed to the air-to-air variant hinged on that.

I would love to get my hands on that book, is that a Tu-16 Badger?

You appear to be in luck! Flygplan Kort 1987 is available on eBay!

Mattebubben, great post. If I understood correctly the AJS-37 WAS NOT capable of carrying the swedish variant of the AIM-7 Sparrow?

It wasn't no, AIM-7 and later AMRAAM support was limited to the Fighter variant JA-37. :-)

I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to make the AJS-37 as opposed to the air-to-air variant hinged on that.

It very well might have! I understand that the same organisation is actually restoring a SK-37 (two seater trainer) variant as well, so if they are lucky they might even be able to catch a ride! :-)

Just to be "that" guy, the SARH was the monopulse Sky Flash - a tad bit better ECCM compared to the AIM-7 of the time (I think the first monopulse Sparrow was the later AIM-7M, but I've been wrong before).

/nitpickingOden

I would say that Sweden was closer to an open confligt with CCCP than USA ever was. There are numerous incidents like the U-137 incident when we had the Soviet navy almost doing a forced rescue attempt. There are also some incidents with Soviet shooting down Swedish aircrafts and so on.

 

Perhaps the Swedish aircrafts are the reason they never dared to do something more?

There were some close and dangerous incidents between Sweden and the USSR, no doubt about that. But the same applies to USA<>USSR with the cuban missile crisis just beeing the most prominent one.

Hm... well, calling it neutral is stretching the truth a bit...

Sweden was/(is) officially neutral. That's what they say themselves and they're not part of NATO and haven't been a member of the EU during the Cold War. That they where in fact closer to the west than the east is no secret though ;)

The (unoficcial) collaboration with NATO has been going on for a loooong time. Sometimes I believe the Swedish Airforce was doing a lot more than the Swedish government even knew about. A lot of equipment was more or less designed for an easy adaption to NATO standards.

 

There are rumors about two sets of equipment at some airbases. One that fitted the connectors at Swedish aircrafts, and one set that you didn't ask about and that had no labels etc..

 

And there has also been a lot of intelligence exchange. That is one of the reasons why we had airplanes shot down over the Baltic sea...

When the swedish air force participated in Operation Unified Protector in 2011, there biggest problem was incompatible equipment/technology in their Gripens (and access to NATO-INTEL).

I would love to get my hands on that book, is that a Tu-16 Badger?

I got mine from a friend who was a AJ37 pilot at the time. If you look around there are plenty for sale on numerous auction sites.

 

 

It wasn't no, AIM-7 and later AMRAAM support was limited to the Fighter variant JA-37. :-)

 

That would have made a great difference to me. The inclusion of the hability to carry the Sparrow will have added a lot.

I'm just going to be "that guy" and point out that the only flying Viggen we have in the world is an AJS, not an AJ. ;-)

...

The AJ-37 and AJS-37 are the same thing.

Just Like you would Say F-16C instead of F-16 Block 50 for example.

and since All AJ-37s that where kept in service in the 90s where upgraded to AJS-37 standard and since the AJ-37 Flying today was one of the Last 11 AJ-37s to be made (Serial Number 37098 out of 37108)

it was guaranteed to be updated with the AJS upgrade.

So Yes Nr98 is a AJS 37... But that does not mean its not a AJ-37...

Sweden was/(is) officially neutral. That's what they say themselves and they're not part of NATO and haven't been a member of the EU during the Cold War. That they where in fact closer to the west than the east is no secret though ;)

A common misconception is to think about Sweden as being neutral. The Swedish standpoint has been to be neutral in wartime and to have a stance of non-alignment in peacetime. That means we could work closely with NATO (which we did...) eventhough we weren't a NATO member.

A common misconception is to think about Sweden as being neutral. The Swedish standpoint has been to be neutral in wartime and to have a stance of non-alignment in peacetime. That means we could work closely with NATO (which we did...) eventhough we weren't a NATO member.

I'm totally with you on that.

I also hope they will eventually become an official member of NATO.

That would have made a great difference to me. The inclusion of the hability to carry the Sparrow will have added a lot.

The Fighter Variant had radar guided missiles.

But the lack of radar guided missiles was nothing rare as no other dedicated Strike aircraft of this period had Radar guided missiles either .

You have to Remember the Attack viggen is a 1970s

dedicated strike aircraft so no multirole fighter like what we are used to today.

Even the Early F-16s did not have Aim-7s.

Being a Swede it's a definite first day pre-order for me. Just hoping they will add a Baltic sea map with underground hangar bases! So bad ass!

The Fighter Variant had radar guided missiles.

 

But the lack of radar guided missiles was nothing rare as no other dedicated Strike aircraft of this period had Radar guided missiles either .

 

You have to Remember the Attack viggen is a 1970s

dedicated strike aircraft so no multirole fighter like what we are used to today.

 

Even the Early F-16s did not have Aim-7s.

I know that. But is a lose of potential missions, a multirole is always better than a attack aircraft.

Being a Swede it's a definite first day pre-order for me. Just hoping they will add a Baltic sea map with underground hangar bases! So bad ass!

And underground aircraft factories! ;D

And road bases! :D

Viggens scrambling to attack ground assets being deployed to the Swedish coast while the attacking force has to drop bunker busters on the hidden hangars is a fun scenario for example.

Now, for those saying there is no enemy nation in game for Sweden to attack, well, you are wrong. Sweden's greatest enemy is already in DCS, friends, just open your eyes.

:D:D:D

Viggens scrambling to attack ground assets being deployed to the Swedish coast while the attacking force has to drop bunker busters on the hidden hangars is a fun scenario for example.

 

Now, for those saying there is no enemy nation in game for Sweden to attack, well, you are wrong. Sweden's greatest enemy is already in DCS, friends, just open your eyes.

 

:D:D:D

DANSK.... JÄVLAR!!! :joystick:

I know that. But is a lose of potential missions, a multirole is always better than a attack aircraft.

Sure but during the time period there wasent alot of real multirole aircraft.

Ie Multirole in that they could do all Roles Equally well.

And while Multirole aircraft can do a larger variety of missions then a strike aircraft it does not have to be better at a Strike role then a Strike aircraft is.

Sure but during the time period there wasent alot of real multirole aircraft.

 

Ie Multirole in that they could do all Roles Equally well.

 

And while Multirole aircraft can do a larger variety of missions then a strike aircraft it does not have to be better at a Strike role then a Strike aircraft is.

Exactly, it might just be "equally bad at doing strike missions as it is doing intercept missions" instead of being equally good at them both. :P

Sure but during the time period there wasent alot of real multirole aircraft.

 

Ie Multirole in that they could do all Roles Equally well.

 

And while Multirole aircraft can do a larger variety of missions then a strike aircraft it does not have to be better at a Strike role then a Strike aircraft is.

Well, Is still possible to try mods.

DANSK.... JÄVLAR!!! :joystick:

Well in modern times (after 1900) Sweden came close to being invaded twice. Both times by England! :poster_oops:

Those who want some better air-to-air representation: Recall that LNS included the Kh-66 GROM with the MiG-21bis. It could be possible that they might add the Skyflash for the purposes of gameplay.

I'll omit it as I prefer to keep my experience authentic as possible, but that would also allow for the AJS-37 to pose as a JA-37 from the 80's.

As excited as we are, we don't even have renders yet, so who knows?

In the end, the Viggen is an aircraft that will fit a niche in DCS that, I feel, is going unattended. We're getting multiroles. We're getting air superiority. We're getting rugged little ground attackers.

But, what about the air to ground profile of low and very fast? I've always felt having something along the lines of the F-111, Su-24, or Tornado would be insane fun as you dodge mountains, trees, and other hazards before dumping a load of hell onto targets.

The Viggen could definitely fill this niche to a satisfactory degree.

Viggens scrambling to attack ground assets being deployed to the Swedish coast while the attacking force has to drop bunker busters on the hidden hangars is a fun scenario for example.

 

Now, for those saying there is no enemy nation in game for Sweden to attack, well, you are wrong. Sweden's greatest enemy is already in DCS, friends, just open your eyes.

 

 

:D:D:D

BEWARE THE DANE.

HE CAUSES WAR.

HE SKALS.