Extended Warthog Stick with industrial spring for more feedback - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-11-2011, 01:52 PM   #1
shagrat
ED Translator
 
shagrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 8,849
Lightbulb Extended Warthog Stick with industrial spring for more feedback

Hello folks,

this might be an idea for any of you who extended the Warthog/Cougar stick and miss the feedback from the springs.

I bought an industrial type spring 7 cm diameter and 13 cm high.

With some time and the correct screws and shims it can be mounted directly to the base instead of the aluminium cover ring.

More and more it looks like a pit

Click image for larger version

Name:	img_0169.jpg
Views:	8101
Size:	590.1 KB
ID:	52505 Click image for larger version

Name:	img_0170.jpg
Views:	7012
Size:	548.6 KB
ID:	52506 Click image for larger version

Name:	img_0171.jpg
Views:	6764
Size:	489.7 KB
ID:	52507

The spring is from www.febrotec.de
I chose this one:
http://www.febrotec.de/content.php?l...2&details=6498

This one gives a feedback power similar to a Saitek X-52

EDIT: Link to post with details on the build
__________________
Shagrat

- Flying Sims since 1984 -
Win 10 | i5 7600K@4.0GHz | 32GB | GeForce GTX 1080 8GB - Acer XB280HK 28" 4k | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | TM HOTAS Warthog custom build extension | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | TM Cougar MFDs |a hand made UFC and an AHCP | Oculus Rift & controller

Last edited by shagrat; 12-02-2011 at 11:25 PM.
shagrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 02:08 PM   #2
Impact
Member
 
Impact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 256
Default

Why didnt you just take the base with the hall sensoric, and extended it under it? Do you want that extra leverage?
__________________
------=:: I FLY BLEIFREI ::=------
Impact is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 02:17 PM   #3
shagrat
ED Translator
 
shagrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 8,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impact View Post
Why didnt you just take the base with the hall sensoric, and extended it under it? Do you want that extra leverage?
The whole thing of the extension is mostly about having a longer travel for the stick, which enhances control over the plane dramatically.

It is now possible to give tiny and precise inputs. That's why you use a rod and a converted PS2 extension cable to extend the stick, rather than mounting it on a column.

That precision comes with a degrading power of the springs (actually at that length it is completely diminished and you may put the stick in any direction and leave it there )

The spring adds the necessary feedback to center the stick.
__________________
Shagrat

- Flying Sims since 1984 -
Win 10 | i5 7600K@4.0GHz | 32GB | GeForce GTX 1080 8GB - Acer XB280HK 28" 4k | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | TM HOTAS Warthog custom build extension | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | TM Cougar MFDs |a hand made UFC and an AHCP | Oculus Rift & controller
shagrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 02:44 PM   #4
Impact
Member
 
Impact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shagrat View Post
The whole thing of the extension is mostly about having a longer travel for the stick, which enhances control over the plane dramatically.

It is now possible to give tiny and precise inputs. That's why you use a rod and a converted PS2 extension cable to extend the stick, rather than mounting it on a column.

That precision comes with a degrading power of the springs (actually at that length it is completely diminished and you may put the stick in any direction and leave it there )

The spring adds the necessary feedback to center the stick.
Hmmm... I just ask myself, when you compare planes that are fly by wire, you do have the same problem with the precision?
__________________
------=:: I FLY BLEIFREI ::=------
Impact is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 05:31 PM   #5
Flim
Member
 
Flim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: AL
Posts: 903
Default

There are plenty of planes that are fly by wire and have sticks or yokes... and most use spring feedback to give the pilot some feel.
Flim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 07:24 PM   #6
Impact
Member
 
Impact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flim View Post
There are plenty of planes that are fly by wire and have sticks or yokes... and most use spring feedback to give the pilot some feel.
But I mean if they have that precision problem, because you have a bigger lever in non fly by wire planes then lets say with the stick of the f16
__________________
------=:: I FLY BLEIFREI ::=------
Impact is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 08:12 PM   #7
shagrat
ED Translator
 
shagrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 8,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impact View Post
But I mean if they have that precision problem, because you have a bigger lever in non fly by wire planes then lets say with the stick of the f16
If I understood "fly-by-wire" correctly the major improvement is, that the stick, pedals and throttle give signals to a computer system that does the actual flying, so that in general the pilot may twist the stick to the left and applying full left rudder which normally would cause stall on the left wing and get you spinning - now the "fly-by-wire" system prevents this by giving the maximum save rudder input without stalling. (You can override this to willingly cause a maximum G-Turn or the like, though).

In a standard aircraft like the A-10 the input from the stick and pedal is directly translated into control pane movement. So to say a little jerking on the stick at 145 knots has a totally different impact than at 350 knots - what you do is what you get

If you look into the A-10 cockpit you see it has the old weirdo stick from the 70ies and compared to the actual Warthog HOTAS it has a much longer way of travel with more inches per degree on the axis...

And if you try Air-to-air Refueling with the standard stick and the smallest movement make you fail (...and your trigger finger itching ), you get very fond of this extension stuff.

In general it is more realistic, but nonetheless a personal occupation. Some people love it others don't, depends on your preference alone.

I can say I love it and after I have some spring centering the stick again it is a great feeling and my flying improved... not that I can manage A-A-Refueling now, but I'm getting closer to the point where the plane does what I want 99% of the time
__________________
Shagrat

- Flying Sims since 1984 -
Win 10 | i5 7600K@4.0GHz | 32GB | GeForce GTX 1080 8GB - Acer XB280HK 28" 4k | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | TM HOTAS Warthog custom build extension | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | TM Cougar MFDs |a hand made UFC and an AHCP | Oculus Rift & controller
shagrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 09:57 PM   #8
shu77
Member
 
shu77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 700
Default

What are the rivets at the base of the hog sensor are the neccersary to keep the spring in place? It kind of looks like you have two separeate extensions joined in the middle is that the case? its a neat idea, but Im interested in what youve added to the original set up?
__________________

i7-930, 9GB DDR3, ASRock X58, HD5870 1GB, Win 7 64Bit, TM Warthog, Saitek rudder pedals, TM Cougar MFDs, MFD's on 2nd screen, Hawgtouch on 2nd PC.
77 Squadron DCS Airfield Diagrams My Ride! My Rig
shu77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 11:01 PM   #9
shagrat
ED Translator
 
shagrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 8,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shu77 View Post
What are the rivets at the base of the hog sensor are the neccersary to keep the spring in place? It kind of looks like you have two separeate extensions joined in the middle is that the case? its a neat idea, but Im interested in what youve added to the original set up?
Hi Shu,

for the general extension based on the "Gardena hose-repair kit" I used two Gardena Kits for the connection I used an aluminium pipe 20mm wide that fits neatly on the Gardena stuff.

First problem was to connect the pipe to the socket since it is screwed onto the socket you need a 36M type nut. The one I got on an E-Bay Store is from hydraulics used on tractors and the like. It is massive!
The second kits interior (the plastic nuts are useless) I had to cut and tweak to have a plate with the connector to stick onto the pipe and secure it with the nut on the socket.
Don't forget the adapted PS2 cabling (look into Metalnwoods Extender Thread).

To attach the spring you need:

7-8 Screws Metric 3 x 16 (Take one from the aluminium ring to the store and check!)
7-8 Shims 4.3mm hole 20mm wide

The ominous spring or a tougher one, if you like. IMPORTANT the spring must have an inside width of at least 62mm to fit the nut, better 65. Outside width must not exceed 70mm, otherwise you can't attach the screws.

You need to build a centering plate (the black plate on top of the spring).
I did this from rigid PVC hobby materials 4mm thick (left over from the UFC).
This stuff can be cut with a normal hobby knife. First make a disc fitting inside the spring, as exactly as possible. Second make one that is about 1-2mm wider than the spring (goes on top to keep the spring in place.
then a third one that fits inside but covers the spring edge (think of the three discs as a Hamburger where the spring is holding tightly around the meat ). Do not glue them yet!!!

Now you have to cut a 20mm hole in the middle of each disc that fits to the aluminium pipe of the extension.
Now you have a PVC disc set of 12mm that you put on the pipe glue together encasing the spring and can be moved up and down the pipe.

Remove the aluminium ring on the base of the Warthog socket.
Screw the extension onto the socket (connect the PS2 plugs!), pull down the spring until it rests on the socket.

So far so good, but the spring will slide around when moving the stick.

Now put the 8 screws and the shims into the socket and fix the spring with them (you will not be able to put the shim in place where the spring starts winding up, I used only the screw there).

Now it should stay in place!

The hose clip on top of the PVC disc is not necessary I plan to use it to attach some cover, perhaps a gear stick cover from a car or the like.

It is a bit amateur build, but I don't have access to a garage or sophisticated equipment so this proves what a dremel and some PVC glue can do
__________________
Shagrat

- Flying Sims since 1984 -
Win 10 | i5 7600K@4.0GHz | 32GB | GeForce GTX 1080 8GB - Acer XB280HK 28" 4k | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | TM HOTAS Warthog custom build extension | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | TM Cougar MFDs |a hand made UFC and an AHCP | Oculus Rift & controller

Last edited by shagrat; 11-10-2014 at 01:01 AM.
shagrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 11:18 PM   #10
shu77
Member
 
shu77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 700
Default

Ah ok, makes a lot more sense from this. I wish I could extend my X-52 this easily, then I would have no excuses for my poor AAR attempts
__________________

i7-930, 9GB DDR3, ASRock X58, HD5870 1GB, Win 7 64Bit, TM Warthog, Saitek rudder pedals, TM Cougar MFDs, MFD's on 2nd screen, Hawgtouch on 2nd PC.
77 Squadron DCS Airfield Diagrams My Ride! My Rig
shu77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:47 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.