Harrier CAS page update

There really isn't a good reason the in-game JTAC shouldn't also work with the Harrier, or Hornet for that matter.

 

 

 

The procedures are the same (by design, it's a NATO standard). The JTAC should be able to provide a grid coordinate in whichever format the aircraft takes (and the Harrier ought to be able to enter MGRS/GRID anyway). The technical differences between the datalinks (SADL vs. ATHS) are mostly transparent to the player, since both should be able to transmit and receive a digital attack brief.

I doubt Razbam has access to the A-10C source code.

Yeah, understood. I just meant from a gameplay perspective, the in-game JTAC ought to be a separate entity from the A-10 and work with other CAS-capable aircraft.

There's no reason ED shouldn't make it so, or if the API hooks are available, that third-party devs shouldn't be able to make their modules compatible with it.

Yeah, understood. I just meant from a gameplay perspective, the in-game JTAC ought to be a separate entity from the A-10 and work with other CAS-capable aircraft.

 

There's no reason ED shouldn't make it so, or if the API hooks are available, that third-party devs shouldn't be able to make their modules compatible with it.

One particular thing I would love to see is telling the JTAC the laser code for the bomb under our wing and have him set his designator accordingly, rather than the other way round.

Apparently ED has been revamping a lot of equipment used in multiple modules (eg. Litening Targeting Pod) into API's, so that they can "simply" be "plugged" into nearly any module.

Maybe with a little luck, they'll get around to doing this with JTAC's as well. It would probably be the API with the widest usage, as nearly every aircraft capable of CAS would probably need to have it.

Time will tell.

Apparently ED has been revamping a lot of equipment used in multiple modules (eg. Litening Targeting Pod) into API's, so that they can "simply" be "plugged" into nearly any module.

 

 

 

Maybe with a little luck, they'll get around to doing this with JTAC's as well. It would probably be the API with the widest usage, as nearly every aircraft capable of CAS would probably need to have it.

 

 

 

Time will tell.

So I tried to manually enter coordinates to the cas page. The problem I found was that the tpod shows them in decimal seconds but u can only enter seconds in the UFC that is then converted again to decimal seconds in the cas page. Is there an easier way or how do you guys do it?

If you can see the target in the tpod, you can directly push it to T0, think you have to use laser ranger on it sub 8 miles and press and hold waypoint increment for over a second, you tube is your friend here as there should be some vids

I been doing exactly that today while training with the jdams. But what if I want to use the topd to get coordinates of multiple targets and drop on all of them in a single pass.

In DCS, the way to do this would be to point your TPOD at each target, record the coordinates, and then mark it on the F10 map as if it were 'preplanned' mode.

Then import the map marks to CAS page, and go from there.

Obviously, this is game function and unlikely to match real-life procedure. I believe that TOO is correctly modeled as one-at-a-time.

I been doing exactly that today while training with the jdams. But what if I want to use the topd to get coordinates of multiple targets and drop on all of them in a single pass.

In DCS, right now, can't be done. TPOD is for a single 'target of opportunity'. Multiple drops in one pass is done through coordinates/CAS page entries.

In DCS, right now, can't be done. TPOD is for a single 'target of opportunity'. Multiple drops in one pass is done through coordinates/CAS page entries.

Yes, I know that.

What I want to do is this.

Let's say I'm on a multiplayer server where I cant see the enemy ground units on the F10 map and I'm circling around a group and looking at them with the TPOD. The TPOD will always show the coordinates where I'm looking and I want to enter those coordinates manually into the CAS page so I can then assign targets to the coordinates.

The problem I have now is that the TPOD shows the coordinates like N DD.MM.SSS but you can only enter N DD.MM.SS in the UFC. So how do I convert them so it will work?

Can JTAC send coordinates and info directly to the CAS page?

The problem I have now is that the TPOD shows the coordinates like N DD.MM.SSS but you can only enter N DD.MM.SS in the UFC. So how do I convert them so it will work?

The TPOD shows DDM (degrees decimal minutes) but there isn't an easy way to enter it in the DCS AV-8B or with sufficient accuracy i.e. DD MM.MMM

IRL you can enter

• DDM (inc. thousandths of a minute / 6ft)

• DMS (inc. 10ths of a second / 10ft)

• UTM (10 digit / 1 meter)

... coordinates.

For Wolixe

you must convert decimal degrees to degrees minute second.

you can put this table in your kneeboard.

The result in the table is read directly.

For example, 0.5 minute corresponds to 30 seconds and 0.35 minute corresponds to 21 seconds.

or just multiply the decimal part to 60

or just multiply the decimal part to 60

To convert 41° 12.40' --> 40x60/100 = 24" --> 41° 12' 24"

Ah, the ignorance... *shakes head in disbelief*

Are you incapable to use a map, compass, pen and radio for air support requests, with just couple smoke grenades, flares or even tracers to help in some more challenging scenarios?

If you do not read what I write and you must result to just personal insults then you learn nothing.

Can JTAC send coordinates and info directly to the CAS page?

Yes. The target handoff can be performed from the network.

Are you incapable to use a map, compass, pen and radio for air support requests, with just couple smoke grenades, flares or even tracers to help in some more challenging scenarios?

 

 

 

If you do not read what I write ...

I can do that quite well, that wasn't the point... and the comment was related to the fact, that I believe Chicken Sim has a LOT more experience around the AV-8B than both of us together. ;)

Can JTAC send coordinates and info directly to the CAS page?

I know this is late, but I think the consensus is "No".

I'm not even going to bother quoting every opinion or bit of speculation as to why in this thread.

Razbam_Elmo, can you give an update as to where we are, and where we are going, as to the ability of DCS World JTAC to send info directly to the CAS page?

I can do that quite well, that wasn't the point... and the comment was related to the fact, that I believe Chicken Sim has a LOT more experience around the AV-8B than both of us together. ;)

My real life experience is to be able request support from hornets, Artillery, mortars or even from a ship.

What is yours? Sorry, it doesn't matter because you go "It doesn't go that way", while it goes exactly what I wrote.

I am not talking about Harrier only, if you would notice that. The process to get a NATO aircraft to operate with a multinational ground troops is not difficult because basics.

So stop trying to do personal insults.

My real life experience is to be able request support from hornets, Artillery, mortars or even from a ship.

What is yours? Sorry, it doesn't matter because you go "It doesn't go that way", while it goes exactly what I wrote.

 

I am not talking about Harrier only, if you would notice that. The process to get a NATO aircraft to operate with a multinational ground troops is not difficult because basics.

So stop trying to do personal insults.

This provides more context, but your previous post is still not representative of the wider CAS mission set (which you completely understandably might be unfamiliar with).

Type 1 BOT with visual marks is often to "go to" for multinational situations where language and cultural barriers might exist, since risks can be mitigated through visual assessment of the aircraft's nose position. While you may not hear a perfect 9 line on the radio all the time, that doesn't mean the pilots and controllers aren't mentally checking off their list of what needs to get satisfied to safely and effectively get the desired effects and "get the job done."

There's a whole other world of "heads down" CAS out there in the Type 2/3 and/or BOC world that you may be dismissing out of hand because they are intentionally hesitant to do it when working with coalition forces.

I'm not going to say "Cowboy CAS" where you're not using the procedures like you're describing doesn't happen, but I've read enough AARs where it and its proponents have gotten a lot of friendlies killed for really dumb reasons to ever advocate for it or count it as "CAS" and not just DAS or half-baked fire support.

I think we're victims of equivocation here.

I know this is late, but I think the consensus is "No".

I'm not even going to bother quoting every opinion or bit of speculation as to why in this thread.

So we should then scratch over the ATHS capability in Harrier for being a "Digital CAS" supported aircraft?

If ED's JTAC is modeled for SADL specifically, then no, Harrier shouldn't be able to receive digital CAS briefs.

If ED's JTAC is modeled for generic datalink, there's no real reason to omit Harrier's ATHS.

In either case, Harriers within a flight should be able to share CAS information digitally.

This provides more context, but your previous post is still not representative of the wider CAS mission set (which you completely understandably might be unfamiliar with).

I am not talking about 2 or 3 types of control, just about type 1. I know those things (use to be good at it back in the time, now forgetting more and more), but I am not talking about all possible situations and scenarios and every single case. Just very specific kinds.

I'm not going to say "Cowboy CAS" where you're not using the procedures like you're describing doesn't happen, but I've read enough AARs where it and its proponents have gotten a lot of friendlies killed for really dumb reasons to ever advocate for it or count it as "CAS" and not just DAS or half-baked fire support.

 

I didn't say it is not risky, but when you have risk to get overrun in emergency situation, things changes where every single second matter. And that is the hard part that sometimes you need to make a call that you know will lead to death of friendlies. War is not fun or nice. Games are. It is easy to talk about perfect procedures and all correct ways to do things and all that. But there are times everyone know that they probably are not going to make it. That is something no one can prepare one to do when you know the people personally you need to command.

 

I think we're victims of equivocation here.

 

Yes and no.

As I am talking more about real world scenarios and happened stuff, than what is by the book thought procedures.

 

And this is one of those things that makes me sad about DCS as it doesn't simulate the real combat, as the infantry element is completely lacking.

Like example closest thing that one can get to that "fog of war" and fast dynamic close air support is sadly in a ARMA. But that is so many ways different topic that it doesn't really work to even compare to DCS that is more of a "Study Sim" for procedures.

 

What I am wishing from DCS in future is really all kind small elements to ground units that would really start to challenge pilots who need to operate at all with them.

 

That, because it really is far more interesting area in combat simulation than "fly there and drop a bomb on that lonely tank".

Could we ever get a dynamic radio communications from a AI? Yes, but it requires very heavy investment to get even semi-believable communications.

 

So best we can now wish is to get the AI send the CAS page data over datalink, without pilot itself required to use a F10 map to do so or fill them just over radio etc.

As that is best the DCS can really support at the moment with the AI.

And in future to have downlink video from TPOD to JTAC unit on ground so one human could play the unit there and actually have at least that visual video too there.