Harrier CAS page update

Just wanted to share. Zeus is currently working on the Harrier

The CAS Brief editing is enabled, its its still WiP and being worked on

ATHS/CAS Update:

1. Now it is possible to create, edit and delete CAS briefings using the MPCD/UFC/ODU.

2. For creating, editing:

2.1 Clicking on the CAS button when the CAS brief is in the display toggles editing mode on/off.

2.2 A '*' will be shown indicating the field to be edited.

2.3 Field 14 (TOT) is the default field.

2.4 To change fields, you must click on the Up Arrow/Down Arrow buttons. The '*' will move up or down.

2.5 The UFC/OUD will change modes based on the current field to be edited.

2.6 Some fields cannot be changed in the UFC. For these field two buttons: UP/DOWN will appear in the MPCD. Clicking on these buttons will change the available options. The UFC will display the selected option.

2.7 To set a target position there are two ways:

2.7.1 By inserting a Lat/Lon coordinate (Field 6)

2.7.2 By Polar coordinates (bearing and distance):

2.7.3 Polar coordinates requirements:

2.7.3.1 An Initial Point or IP (Field 1). It can be any flight plan waypoint. This will be the starting point for the attack run.

2.7.3.2 Bearing from IP (Field 2). Any value between 0 to 359.9

2.7.3.3 Distance from IP in nautical miles (Field 3). Any value greater than 0. Values greater than 100 will be assumed to be in meters and will be converted into nautical miles.

2.8 To complete the target position, its elevation must be entered (Field 4). Value is in feet (-2000 to 25000)

2.9 NOTE: Modifying the target position in an ACTIVE CAS record does not update the associated targetpoint(s). The ACTIVE record will be set as NOT ACTIVE. To use the new position the targetpoint(s) must be reselected.

2.10 Field 5 indicates type of target. Type is fixed and can be selected by pressing UP/DOWN buttons when the field is being edited.

2.11 Field 7 indicates how the target will be marked. If it is being maked by a laser, the laser code must be included.

2.12 Field 8 and Field 9 have a DIRection component. This relates to specific points of the compass (i.e: North, North East, etc.)

2.13 Field 8 Indicates direction and distance to friendly forces (if any) in relation to the target position. Distance is in meters (max value is 10000 meters).

2.14 Field 9 Indicates egress route from the target. You can select up to 3 flight plan waypoints (CP1, CP2 and CP3) for determining an egress route. DIR indicates direction of egress for the escape route.

2.15 Field 13 is for mission remarks and observations. It is not enabled.

2.14 Field 14 is for selecting a Time-On-Target (TOT) value. Not enabled at this time.

2.15 To save the changes, you must click on the SAVE button. If you are creating a new record, an internal ID will be generated.

2.16 If the number of CAS records is greater than 18, the first record will be deleted to make space for the new one.

2.17 Clicking on the PCLR button will clear the display and set the page into edit mode for creating a new record.

3. To delete a record

3.1 Record deletion is only available in the RECALL page

3.2 Place the '*' cursor on the record to be deleted by using the Up Arrow/Down Arrow buttons.

3.4 On the ODU click the ERAS (erase) option (Option 2).

3.3 NOTE: Deleting an ACTIVE CAS record does not clear the associated targetpoint(s).

F10 Map updates:

1. The F10 Map will ignore any mark that does not have the label begin with TNN format, where N is any number between 0 to 9.

2. The F10 Map will save the name of the pilot who created the mark. It will be displayed in the CAS page as FAC. (WiP)

3. The F10 Map will process all marks but only the last 18 will be saved to the CAS page. For example, if there are 24 marks, only the last 18 will be saved. The first 6 will be discarded and marked as processed.

4. The F10 Map will not reload a processed record, even if it was never saved to the CAS page.

5. The F10 Map will not reload a deleted record.

Lovely, thank you!

Looks promising.

Asking earnestly here, what's the practical application of this?

Asking earnestly here, what's the practical application of this?

CAS

Asking earnestly here, what's the practical application of this?

You do not need to receive 9-ball or anything over radio, as JTAC can send the targets over datalink to your computer, and you get to see what there is. You can as well send your TPOD video feed back to JTAC terminal, where they can draw over it to tell you back that what they want you to strike or use otherwise tactically, like where are own troops, where is enemy, where is assets etc.

In fast moments there is no time for JTAC or anything like that. You have radio contact with the troops on the ground and they talk directly to you what they see, where they are, where enemy is etc. In case of difficulties own troops use smoke grenades to create a visual landmarks that you can easily then spot, like red smoke to their rear side and green smoke to toward enemy (or smoke the enemy position). And then you can easily find where own troops are and on what direction from that position the enemy is etc. No need to tell any coordinates or like. But it requires that pilot has visual contact with the area and not flying 20nm from them and trying to get a JDAM or JSOW there. So that method doesn't work when a B-52 is giving close air support, as then you definitely require a coordinates and all.

Not sure how playing with already known data helps with the CAS mission

Not sure how playing with already known data helps with the CAS mission

Already known data? What do you mean?

Not sure how playing with already known data helps with the CAS mission

In Real-Life™ you are also getting targets assigned through your command structure. Target coordinates are programmed into the CAS page before you climb into the cockpit. You just call them up and attack them - very vaguely simplified.

In DCS in dynamic campaigns for example or long missions with a constantly changing situation and opposing players controlling enemy units, there would be no way for this to be done for the player. He has to make out his own targets on the map or have their coordinates presented to him.

With this system he can punch them into CAS himself, or use the F10 map to mark location and then transfer them from F10 map markers to the CAS page.

In Real-Life™ you are also getting targets assigned through your command structure. Target coordinates are programmed into the CAS page before you climb into the cockpit. You just call them up and attack them - very vaguely simplified.

Uhm, that's not CAS then, but a classic strike mission. CAS is always a dynamic situation, as you support troops on the ground that are in contact with the enemy. Such situations are way too dynamic to be programmed before you climb into the cockpit.

Uhm, that's not CAS then, but a classic strike mission. CAS is always a dynamic situation, as you support troops on the ground that are in contact with the enemy. Such situations are way too dynamic to be programmed before you climb into the cockpit.

Ground troops do not always move so fast. And Harrier is anyways operating 15-20km from the frontline so the time you take-off, you are few minutes from the troops you are suppose to be supporting. Unlike the Hornet that is over hour away from the troops.

Ground troops do not always move so fast. And Harrier is anyways operating 15-20km from the frontline so the time you take-off, you are few minutes from the troops you are suppose to be supporting. Unlike the Hornet that is over hour away from the troops.

It's not about ground troops moving away. It's about the exact locations of friendly and enemy troops that are changing constantly during a firefight. A trench or a rock formation or some other kind of position that is used by the enemy as a fire position can be occupied by friendlies 10 minutes later. That's why CAS missions are extremly dynamic and you have to constantly keep track of the forces moving on the ground, even if you're already above it. That's why it's impossible to pre-plan target positions for CAS missions. Instead you get an initial brief on the current situation by the JTAC when approaching the scene, followed by constant updates on how the situation evolves. The CAS page is very useful for that.

In Real-Life™ you are also getting targets assigned through your command structure. Target coordinates are programmed into the CAS page before you climb into the cockpit. You just call them up and attack them - very vaguely simplified.

Those would be pre-planned waypoints/targets, IRL they have nothing to do with the CAS page.

With this system he can punch them into CAS himself, or use the F10 map to mark location and then transfer them from F10 map markers to the CAS page.

The CAS page is part of the ATHS (Automatic Target Hand-off System), IRL it's a dynamic electronic 9-line text message between the JTAC and lead, who can share the flight's loadout and fuel state and the JTAC can upload target co-ordinates, chosen weapon, etc.

Lead and JTAC edit/update shared copies of the CAS page info (i.e. ingress waypoint) until they reach an agreed version and the JTAC "authorises" it.

Lead then forwards a copy of the "authorised" CAS message to the aircraft that is to carry out the attack.

DCS

The F10 map markers and "RAlt+RShift+8" simulate a JTAC selecting targets and sending CAS messages to the lead aircraft. Editing the CAS page will allow the player to add missing details i.e. choose/edit the ingress waypoint

While imperfect, editing the CAS page allows players to manually fill the CAS 9-line page using info from AI JTAC (it may not be possible for Razbam to code for A-10C SADL like data).

In Real-Life™ you are also getting targets assigned through your command structure. Target coordinates are programmed into the CAS page before you climb into the cockpit. You just call them up and attack them - very vaguely simplified.

 

In DCS in dynamic campaigns for example or long missions with a constantly changing situation and opposing players controlling enemy units, there would be no way for this to be done for the player. He has to make out his own targets on the map or have their coordinates presented to him.

 

With this system he can punch them into CAS himself, or use the F10 map to mark location and then transfer them from F10 map markers to the CAS page.

Right, I can go to the F10 map. So why do I need to edit them? Seems pretty edge case.

Those would be pre-planned waypoints/targets, IRL they have nothing to do with the CAS page.

 

 

 

The CAS page is part of the ATHS (Automatic Target Hand-off System), IRL it's a dynamic electronic 9-line text message between the JTAC and lead, who can share the flight's loadout and fuel state and the JTAC can upload target co-ordinates, chosen weapon, etc.

 

Lead and JTAC edit/update shared copies of the CAS page info (i.e. ingress waypoint) until they reach an agreed version and the JTAC "authorises" it.

 

Lead then forwards a copy of the "authorised" CAS message to the aircraft that is to carry out the attack.

 

DCS

 

The F10 map markers and "RAlt+RShift+8" simulate a JTAC selecting targets and sending CAS messages to the lead aircraft. Editing the CAS page will allow the player to add missing details i.e. choose/edit the ingress waypoint

 

While imperfect, editing the CAS page allows players to manually fill the CAS 9-line page using info from AI JTAC (it may not be possible for Razbam to code for A-10C SADL like data).

Ok, this makes sense. I'm on board now.

It's not about ground troops moving away. It's about the exact locations of friendly and enemy troops that are changing constantly during a firefight. A trench or a rock formation or some other kind of position that is used by the enemy as a fire position can be occupied by friendlies 10 minutes later. That's why CAS missions are extremly dynamic and you have to constantly keep track of the forces moving on the ground, even if you're already above it. That's why it's impossible to pre-plan target positions for CAS missions. Instead you get an initial brief on the current situation by the JTAC when approaching the scene, followed by constant updates on how the situation evolves. The CAS page is very useful for that.

That is why the CAS page is very valuable, because when the Harrier takes off, it can slave TPOD straight at the combat area and start looking around while still 15 km away. Listen the radio all the time and pilot knows what is happening.

There is no such dynamic action where enemy and own troops moves 5-10 kilometers in few minutes.

And considering the USA marines style, they are clearing every corner and every window in fear before they are ready to take a step forward without requesting bomb to next shack there is.

You do not need JTAC to give you position in few meter accuracy, 1 km is really enough if there is enough landmarks etc to tell where to go.

And why you can pre-plan the CAS as you have as well standing orders for specific location to attack or defend specific location.

Anyways you are not going to bomb a position that you do not see, or you have not accurately confirmed that you can drop something without visual confirmation. That can be like a forest where you have zero understanding that what is happening as you only get the information over radio for something.

That is the point of the CAS, that you take your eyes out of the cockpit and you look out that what is happening on the ground and you fight among the ground troops but with just better viewpoint.

Fri13, sorry but you do not understand CAS, you can get a better picture e.g by reading this good book (I really recommend it, it's good!) Fire strike 7/9 by Paul Grahame.

CAS is all about just 100m distance!

That's why you have to 1000% identify all allied forces before you do anything.

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

Folks, check the first post to see the ATHS/CAS and F10 Map updates that are now being tested.

Right, I can go to the F10 map. So why do I need to edit them? Seems pretty edge case.

Because some mission creators may only give you coordinates for targets and some not even that.

Hoggit doesn't have any red units on the strategic map at all, not even if they are directly next to blue units, so you cannot use the strategic map to mark targets.

You can go in to free-cam (from strategic map LCtrl-F11) navigate to directly on top of a target, and record the exact coordinates on the location bar, and then create a waypoint for each one, but being able to put them on the CAS page will be much more flexible and useful.

That is why the CAS page is very valuable, because when the Harrier takes off, it can slave TPOD straight at the combat area and start looking around while still 15 km away. Listen the radio all the time and pilot knows what is happening.

 

There is no such dynamic action where enemy and own troops moves 5-10 kilometers in few minutes.

 

And considering the USA marines style, they are clearing every corner and every window in fear before they are ready to take a step forward without requesting bomb to next shack there is.

You do not need JTAC to give you position in few meter accuracy, 1 km is really enough if there is enough landmarks etc to tell where to go.

 

And why you can pre-plan the CAS as you have as well standing orders for specific location to attack or defend specific location.

 

Anyways you are not going to bomb a position that you do not see, or you have not accurately confirmed that you can drop something without visual confirmation. That can be like a forest where you have zero understanding that what is happening as you only get the information over radio for something.

 

That is the point of the CAS, that you take your eyes out of the cockpit and you look out that what is happening on the ground and you fight among the ground troops but with just better viewpoint.

Excuse me? Are you calling Marines cowards? I got exactly one mk-82 in support in 9 months of combat. And yea if you don't think the situation can be so dynamic as to need to update the pilot you're pretty naive. Or just trolling.

That is why the CAS page is very valuable, because when the Harrier takes off, it can slave TPOD straight at the combat area and start looking around while still 15 km away. Listen the radio all the time and pilot knows what is happening.

 

There is no such dynamic action where enemy and own troops moves 5-10 kilometers in few minutes.

 

And considering the USA marines style, they are clearing every corner and every window in fear before they are ready to take a step forward without requesting bomb to next shack there is.

You do not need JTAC to give you position in few meter accuracy, 1 km is really enough if there is enough landmarks etc to tell where to go.

 

And why you can pre-plan the CAS as you have as well standing orders for specific location to attack or defend specific location.

 

Anyways you are not going to bomb a position that you do not see, or you have not accurately confirmed that you can drop something without visual confirmation. That can be like a forest where you have zero understanding that what is happening as you only get the information over radio for something.

 

That is the point of the CAS, that you take your eyes out of the cockpit and you look out that what is happening on the ground and you fight among the ground troops but with just better viewpoint.

Do you have any idea how much of an oxymoron "clearing a corner in fear before calling a bomb on the next shack" is? Why are you always taking digs at US armed forces? That kind of nonsense isn't welcome on these forums. A good chunk of the guys on here served.

We try to be respectful of all countries and cultures here. Stow the politics.

Fri13, sorry but you do not understand CAS, you can get a better picture e.g by reading this good book (I really recommend it, it's good!) Fire strike 7/9 by Paul Grahame.

 

CAS is all about just 100m distance!

That's why you have to 1000% identify all allied forces before you do anything.

 

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

Sorry but none of you are reading anything that is said. But maybe you should refer back to your book, as it writes same things that I wrote....

Artillery from <10 km distance can support troops with 15m accuracy from friendlies, and that even 70 years ago.

That for even on moving target and so many other things that virtual pilots don't think, why Artillery is deadliest weapon there is.

As I wrote, CAS can be briefed and programmed before take-off, as your job is to get on the area and get your eyes on the friendlies as for enemies. It doesn't matter what there is written anywhere or said, as only thing that counts really is to see the target location. That is why lassr guided munition is always better than any GPS guided as you can track moving targets, and someone who has eyes on target gets the job done. And to get that laser guided bomb on the spot, doesn't require you to know target position in 100 meter accuracy even.

You are talking like to program a CAS, you would need to know already position of enemy with one meter. No, highly dynamic combat is just few hundred meters, it is not kilometers in minutes. If you can advance 1 km per hour, it means you have advanced 24 km in a day, 168 km a week and you have just conquered whole country in two weeks.... Considering that you have to fight every meter, every minute and never stop advancing.

That is why you have contact to ground, that talks to you. That is there to tell you what, where and when to attack. And why you as well need to be able support without anyone on the ground by knowing what happens. As you must have visual understanding outside your multi-function screens and fancy cameras. As those things only is there to get you on the area and rest is your mk.1 eyeballs.

And yet CAS can be provided from 30'000ft by a B-52 bomber, but there you do not get any visual understanding with predictions. You just get the boom when wanted, where wanted.

Because unlike 50 years ago, today you just need to designate target from the ground.... And get the bomb on the area. Challenge is can you....

Do you have any idea how much of an oxymoron "clearing a corner in fear before calling a bomb on the next shack" is? Why are you always taking digs at US armed forces? That kind of nonsense isn't welcome on these forums. A good chunk of the guys on here served.

Serving ain't honorable thing by itself.

And "always" is your own hallucinating just to try to win your hyperbole argument.

We try to be respectful of all countries and cultures here. Stow the politics.

You are the one who talks about politics...

And if you want to be respectful for all countries and all cultures, better step down from your ivory tower....

Excuse me? Are you calling Marines cowards?

Are you calling them all heroic, unfearful, righteous etc?

I got exactly one mk-82 in support in 9 months of combat. And yea if you don't think the situation can be so dynamic as to need to update the pilot you're pretty naive. Or just trolling.

As you don't read what is written, better you to get back to start.....

As you are the troll now.

I give you a hint. Harrier has two-way datalink for text and video communication, and it has radios to talk to the people.... Now you can try to say that people means santa-clause or mermaids....

So stop being a troll and try to claim that I said that when Harrier takes-off that it has exact coordinates of enemy by one meter accuracy where to drop bombs as CAS is supposedly stationary...

That is why the CAS page is very valuable, because when the Harrier takes off, it can slave TPOD straight at the combat area and start looking around while still 15 km away. Listen the radio all the time and pilot knows what is happening.

 

There is no such dynamic action where enemy and own troops moves 5-10 kilometers in few minutes.

 

And considering the USA marines style, they are clearing every corner and every window in fear before they are ready to take a step forward without requesting bomb to next shack there is.

You do not need JTAC to give you position in few meter accuracy, 1 km is really enough if there is enough landmarks etc to tell where to go.

 

And why you can pre-plan the CAS as you have as well standing orders for specific location to attack or defend specific location.

 

Anyways you are not going to bomb a position that you do not see, or you have not accurately confirmed that you can drop something without visual confirmation. That can be like a forest where you have zero understanding that what is happening as you only get the information over radio for something.

 

That is the point of the CAS, that you take your eyes out of the cockpit and you look out that what is happening on the ground and you fight among the ground troops but with just better viewpoint.

I'm going to ignore the previous posts, as re-reading your thread, I think we may actually agree, but are talking past each other.

It seems like you're saying the CAS page is very valuable, then start saying you should keep your eyes out of the cockpit and focus on the radio, which is the opposite of using the page (and was my original point, if I don't have an exact location, why do I need something as specific as the CAS page).

So my question is this: how do you plan on using the page? I'm genuinely interested to know what your approach would be