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Possible better business model for trainer aircraft??


Gungriffen

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I've thought about this for a few years. The idea of a trainer is to help new people learn to F̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶l̶i̶f̶e̶ fly in DCS.

 

Issue is no new player is going to up $60 to learn to fly in a game they're not sure about then another $60 to fly a combat aircraft. Up till now this has left trainers being flown by pro's who have gotten bored with most other modules.

 

With Heatblur selling,

"F-14A/B by Heatblur Simulations Crew-Pack (2 licenses)

 

Regular price $159.98"

 

I started to wonder, what if trainers were sold as a "2 man trainer crew pack" for $120ish and then the owner could "host" an aircraft with a free slot others could join into. When the host disconnected the plane would despawn removing the "guest".

 

 

This way trainers could be used to train new players and the license price will cover the guest.

 

Just a thought.

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Interesting idea, tbh.

 

To add to the discussion: a free (or cheaper) trainee license and a instructor license (costs similar to current regular license?). The trainee then can only fly when connected to a trainer license.

 

New players can get a trainee license easy (i.e. for free), but can only enter aircraft controlled by a instructor license.

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I really like the idea of a free "trainee" slot, I think there are alot of people put off of dcs by the complexity of dcs and feeling they have to learn it on their own, but they could be enticed into dcs if someone was there to guide them. Then they could purchase the combat varient and be fully capable to fly it.

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DCS needs a C172 and a T37 plus a comprehensive suite of training missions for both.

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I've thought about this for a few years. The idea of a trainer is to help new people learn to F̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶l̶i̶f̶e̶ fly in DCS.

 

Issue is no new player is going to up $60 to learn to fly in a game they're not sure about then another $60 to fly a combat aircraft. Up till now this has left trainers being flown by pro's who have gotten bored with most other modules.

 

With Heatblur selling,

"F-14A/B by Heatblur Simulations Crew-Pack (2 licenses)

 

Regular price $159.98"

 

I started to wonder, what if trainers were sold as a "2 man trainer crew pack" for $120ish and then the owner could "host" an aircraft with a free slot others could join into. When the host disconnected the plane would despawn removing the "guest".

 

 

This way trainers could be used to train new players and the license price will cover the guest.

 

Just a thought.

 

Sounds very expensive if you ask me. Paying $120-ish for a trainer? Don't think a lot of people are willing to do that.

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101cc is only $30 I just bought it for my second Rig if you aren't in a hurry wait for a sale and get 2 for $60.

 

My only wish is that I could bind the same Aircraft twice to my account for dual use. Having 2 accounts is a pain.

 

 

 

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The thing is, there is little to no incentive to bother with trainers for 'training' in the first place. Assign primary controls and use auto-start and BOOM your F-18 is super essy accessible even if you know nothing. Crashing has no financial or ''death'' penalty and you have no operating costs (the primary reasons for using trainers in real life).

 

Point is : the only people likely to use a trainer anyway, are people interested in the aircraft in question, and a handful of diehards wanting to simulate a training pipeline, which would technically start with the Yak-52 then moving to any of the jet trainers (english cockpits pretty much render all of them equally accessible).

 

TLDR : The people who buy them are the same people buying for the same reasons as they buy any other aircraft, because they want to. You're never going to end up with anything remotely resembling a real training pipeline here because 99% of people won't bother with it.

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Sounds very expensive if you ask me. Paying $120-ish for a trainer? Don't think a lot of people are willing to do that.

 

 

Missed the point.

The idea is you can buy a single seat license for the standard $60 or buy two for $120.

 

 

The point is options.

 

The options to pay for one seat or both seats.

To teach friends not sure about DCS or not to.

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Just as thought: by going down these proposed routes, you'd be introducing different types of licences into DCS and associated complexity.

Might not be something ED wants to open themselves up to.

 

 

With regards to trainers, it's a bit hard to judge, opening up the backseat to non-licence people makes sense, but for things like the F-14 pr any of the up coming multi-seat helos? Not so much considering their expanded role.

 

RoF handled it well by allowing people to jump into the turrets of the aircraft you were flying, but DCS doesn't yet have any aircraft that really have such limited positions to use for that purpose.

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Only Trainers

 

With regards to trainers, it's a bit hard to judge, opening up the backseat to non-licence people makes sense, but for things like the F-14 pr any of the up coming multi-seat helos? Not so much considering their expanded role.

 

I was only referring to trainer's.

Then again, I was saying thatng to open the back seat the owner must buy the module twice essentially. If a module is $$40, $60, or $80 then you'd have to pay $80, $120, or $160 for it to allow the second use.

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I kinda like this idea as a new pilot im kinda struggling with a few planes I have brought- would it not be better and a possible revenue generate to have a training program attached to the purchase as an option so you could get expert tuition on a server - kinda like a training flight

Iracing for instance has a license system, where you start off as a rookie and progress through the ranks and have to keep your grade point average up

The training flight could be hosted by an instructor and each lesson you have to complete a certain amount of tasks

Just a thought

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Missed the point.

The idea is you can buy a single seat license for the standard $60 or buy two for $120.

 

 

The point is options.

 

The options to pay for one seat or both seats.

To teach friends not sure about DCS or not to.

 

I understood that. But why would you fork over 60$ for a ”single seat” 2-seat trainer?

60$ is to much even for a two-seater.

 

I understand that pricing is somewhat subjective, but a trainer in my opinion should be around 39.99$ max. Content wise, it is not near the bigger modules like A-10C, F/A-18C or

upcoming F-14.

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I understood that. But why would you fork over 60$ for a ”single seat” 2-seat trainer?

60$ is to much even for a two-seater.

$60 may be a little bit of a sticker shock for some people, I guess. But IIRC, there was an early access discount where it was only forty-something. Plus there are sales. Plus you're getting 2 different air frames with (slightly) different external models, quite different cockpits, and different performances. Plus they will both be multiplayer capable.

 

 

Regarding the multiplayer training aspect, one suggestion could be that the trainee would pay a small fee for access to the back seat in multiplayer only. $10? Then, if they decide to buy the module, they get a discount. Maybe this is getting convoluted a bit but this is a hypothetical discussion anyways.

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It’s kind of difficult to value DCS trainers in general. In one way they are complex to make (due to the dual cockpit design) but they are also a niché within a niché, so there are fewer buyers.

So a big investment for a smaller return. L-39, C-101 and Hawk all came along in a time when there was few modules to choose from and trainers offered something new. With the growing list of modules, It’s hard to see that a new trainer would be viable from a commercial point. I believe that the C-101 will be the last trainer we see for a long long time. It has to be a total passion project or order from a company/organization (Yak-52)


Edited by Schmidtfire
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It’s kind of difficult to value DCS trainers in general. In one way they are complex to make (due to the dual cockpit design) but they are also a niché within a niché, so there are fewer buyers.

So a big investment for a smaller return. L-39, C-101 and Hawk all came along in a time when there was few modules to choose from and trainers offered something new. With the growing list of modules, It’s hard to see that a new trainer would be viable from a commercial point. I believe that the C-101 will be the last trainer we see for a long long time. It has to be a total passion project or order from a company/organization (Yak-52)

 

 

You are right, which is why I think being able to buy an extra trainer seat will sell more units. Otherwise it goes unpayed for. As you state, who would want such a thing? Well it has one job, to train people. No noobie is going to pay $60 on a game they are unsure about.

 

There are three outcomes,

If they like it then they must buy a another $60 combat module.

They don't like it then they have wasted $60.

They skip the trainer and just jump to a $60 combat modules.

 

Now if you could pay $80 or $100, or $120 for a trainer plus learner seat then you can convince dozens to come try DCS.

 

You can host a trainer server and teach people. This module to a "Flight Instructor" now has purpose, it has a role even if non combat.

 

You may not buy a trainer because you want to fly CAP, CAS, or Logistics but those who would, would do so because "Flight Instructor" is the role they wish to play but if they can't convince new pilots to shell out $60 then they aren't able to do so and module loses it's usefulness and must be shoe horned into roles it's not designed for like CAS and CAP.

 

Regarding the multiplayer training aspect, one suggestion could be that the trainee would pay a small fee for access to the back seat in multiplayer only. $10? Then, if they decide to buy the module, they get a discount. Maybe this is getting convoluted a bit but this is a hypothetical discussion anyways.

 

This is also an option. To be able to buy a trainee slot for $7-$10. Maybe a mixture of the two.


Edited by Gungriffen
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Just like the L-39, I feel like the C-101 will have its practical use of training and attack. I wouldn't mind at all for AvioDev to do some sort of bundle package with 2 C-101's, 1 for yourself and another you can gift so you can learn/have fun flying around as the F-14 also has.

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  • 5 weeks later...

The real world purpose of trainers is largely defeated when flying a PC simulator: there is no loss of money or life if you crash a virtual supersonic jet fighter. It is also defeated if the aircraft does not support having two players share the same aircraft.

 

If you are buying a DCS World trainer, you probably:

1) just like that particular aircraft

2) are interested in simulating real world training

3) just like to collect and try out all DCS World modules

4) any combination of the above

 

If ED hammers out good two-seat multiplayer network code, having the ability to host beginners in the front seat for free while the license owner flys from the back seat adds a useful dimension to the sim. Some people don't learn well from reading on their own or trial-and-error. Some people like to be coached. Some people enjoy coaching. Allowing players that don't own the trainer modules to fly in the front seat is a really great idea. If I were ED and/or the third parties, I wouldn't even charge extra for this feature. It should be a freebie for all trainers. Perhaps a freebie for all multi-crew aircraft? Imagine you bought the UH-1H at regular price, but you can have a co-pilot/gunner and two door gunners fly with you for free? Or an F-14 with a live RIO for free? The more I think about it, the more this makes sense.

 

Almost no one is going to buy these modules so they can sit in the co-pilot, gunner, or trainee seats. But allowing people to fly in these positions for free might help get more people into playing DCS World and buying its products.

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