FC3 revisions?

I know it's not the DCS focus but FC3 is still big among some of us simply for the sheer joy of flying Flankers and Fulcrums in the best form available, even if jumping from an Su33 to the DCS Hornet module gives a slight brain meltdown from key bindings to how do I fly this for reals? But FC3 is still pretty big for some of us too. At least while we wish for Flankers and Fulcrum clickables and were allowed to join the rest of DCS humanity.

Are there current ED plans to do anything to help update FC3 for DCSW mission building purposes, at least? I mean in terms of say, more detailed modelling of Russian weaponry like the R27 to balance the attention NATO and obsolete munitions have undergone for their modules equipment in DCS.

Would there be any chance Su27S version could be updated to Su27SM? Mainly delivering R77 capability as far as FC3 is concerned and afaik completed in VVS by early 2000s. I've even seen recent footage of Su33 carrying live R77, not dummies off Kuznetsov.

Speaking about Su33 and Kuznetsov, especially in light of the new modelling with the SC module and DCS focus on carrier aircraft, how about filling out the Su33 a little with working support vehicles like the Ka27 buddy refueller and don't ask me how that works except the helo guns flat out and the Flankers sit upon stalling and everybody sweats a lot during the refuelling. Sukhoi themselves have been saying the Flanker D has Kh31 option since the 90s, although never seen them on a Flanker before the Su34. They are recently photographed and videoed with R77 however, logically this would follow the Su27 midlife update across the board but I haven't exactly seen newspaper headlines saying Flanker D has R77 or anything like that.

Su25UTG or UBK or whatever the hell it's called, the carrier one. And more functional Ka27 with some combat capability, I mean there's no reason to have torp dropping in the game but you could have recon mission in ME and AFAC and certainly stick a HMG out the door and pretty sure they can carry rockets if you want to bolt them on. The versions aboard Kuznetsov are the 2 elint and fire director ones for the SS-N missiles on Russian cruisers and electronic recon of an enemy force, about 30 of the familiar ASW version with transport secondary role, can have an MG out the window and carries a torp or depth charges, and (six?) of the SAR version with the ASW equipment stripped out and has a dual role as an assault helo or air ambulance, carries rockets, HMG, armed marines or some stretchers and a winch. Kuznetsov uses them more than the Flankers.

MiG29K, there was an FC2 mod (?). Is it adaptable? Could give India an in game fleet with a Kuznetsov class and their MiG29K with the phased array.

Plus they still keep one or two on the Russian Kuznetsov doing trials and development work, word was a while back if the Russians planned keeping a blue water fleet in the future they would replace the Su33 with the phased radar MiG29K they sold to India.

This is wishful thinking, involving some real module level attention put back into FC3 but it'd sure be nice.

Anyway I remember lots of discussions about possible plans for FC3, and abandoned ideas, I was wondering what the current deal is for FC3 and its future from ED?

I still just love flying the Su33 off Kuznetsov and the MiG off coastal bases, even if they are very confusing and a little annoying key binding and dated flight modelling and not the current standard of DCS modules.

I don't suppose whoever made the Chinese destroyers in DCSW wouldn't mind doing a Russian one? Bit more versatile than the frigates and there are at least a couple left after the big post soviet everything must go sale.

... and dated flight modelling and not the current standard of DCS modules.

Dated? The Su-33 had its flight model revamped just a couple of years ago, as were also the FM of the MiG-29, Su-27 and F-15.

Where have you seen a Su-33 with R-77? Maybe it was a different aircraft?

Where have you seen a Su-33 with R-77? Maybe it was a different aircraft?

I think the combination has been shown as a static display at a couple of airshows. Probably nothing more than advertising by Sukhoi for advanced export versions of the Su-33, which I can't imagine has much of a potential market.

I found the R77 photo while looking for pictures of the Su33 actually in service with the extra two wing pylons over the Su27 we have in game. It's a video still off the deck and isn't carrying orange or striped dummies like the airshows and arms conventions, these are live missiles. I wasn't there and can't say that it wasn't a propaganda shot but there's no reason for those lengths when it's perfectly clear any export Su33 need only a software cassette to fire R77, whilst adding the capability to the Russian ones needs only the same. So you can figure out what you think the photo implies. Sukhoi themselves also state it had Kh31 capability since serial production but I don't know if they mean it just needs a software tape like the R77 or if it's already good to go and you just stock the Kuznetsov magazine with them when you want to bolt them on.

Magazine stocks are actually a big expense in Russia, in Chechnya they decided to use up a backlogged stock of WW2 artillery shells and there is no question the variety of modern munitions in Russia far outweighs their actual availability in stocks or limited production lines. For all I know it could very well be an interservice rivalry between VVS and Naval Aviation for the latest, modern weapons stocks, especially since the PVO got folded into the VVS and the blue water navy plans of the soviet era took an immediately lower priority since.

There maybe no plans to stock Kuznetsov magazines with either R77 or Kh31, as the roles of the Su33 before final retirement might find R27 and rocket packs perfectly adequate and the navy might be on a waiting list for some weapons.

I do know the Su27SM upgrade was completed quite some time ago now, pending conversion to Su35ovt, for which the budget is a little tight so will take some years hence the midlife update. We have Su30SM in the game, it's just the same weapons fit for the flyable Su27S to make it the SM.

With the flight models I was really talking about the missiles. NATO ones now implemented have much more detailed ones and it would be awesome if we got that kind of immersive behaviour from Russian missiles. I don't want to restart the versus controversy but let's assume you have two similarly performing missiles and one is a simplified flight model from WXP days and the other an advanced one written on a multithreaded processor it's a bit like VR meets PacMan in performance terms. Forget east vs west arguments, it'd still be cool if they were inferior missiles but just had that same level of coding detail in performance and then maybe there would be times when something that shouldn't have spoofed it but did because of a simple flight model, well at least those things won't happen if they do now.

With the four wing pylons search I mentioned, I found two photo-stills during operations with them added: one had four rocket pods and a pair of R73 and the other had the R77, plus R27R and R73, oddly never saw a single photo of weapons on the wingtips, always either ecm pods or left bare. Most photos just have three wing stations each like the Su27, they still don't put archers on the tips at all but just carry a pair of short burn R27 and a pair of R73, that's the most common load configuration. There's one other, 4x R27ER long burn and a pair of R73, that and the one with the R77 was the most AAMs I saw on an Su33 coming off the deck, four MRM and two SRM basically is the heavy AAM loadout compared to like ten AAMs in a land based Su27 sortie.

Chizh has already confirmed a lot that R-27 re work will be after AMRAAM is done.

Can you share this Su-33 picture or its source?

copyright protected and doesn't like being linked but one comes up on the first page of a google image search, underbelly shot in flight, not dummy missiles, has 2 R77 and 2 R27R, recent photo.

I was just using google image search and watch a lot of combat approved Russian documentary and its youtube channel. YouTube and google man, what's this "source" crap? Are we doing a university course and you need references to publish? I'm not making it up mate, so what's wrong with talking about it?

copyright protected and doesn't like being linked but one comes up on the first page of a google image search, underbelly shot in flight, not dummy missiles, has 2 R77 and 2 R27R, recent photo.

I was just using google image search and watch a lot of combat approved Russian documentary and its youtube channel. YouTube and google man, what's this "source" crap? Are we doing a university course and you need references to publish? I'm not making it up mate, so what's wrong with talking about it?

I just mean if you don’t want to share the picture itself you can either link or name the website it comes from.

I have googled Su-33+R-77 as well as Su-33 and R-77 on it’s own and see no pictures of a Su-33 with R-77

Maybe his underbelly shot is actually from a Su-33 and he thinks it is a Su-33 because of the canards + extra weapon stations. Or Su-37.

I did find a gettyimage photo labelled as a "sukhoi-su-33-fighter-aircraft-on-a-mission-to-carry-out-news-photo" with R-77s. However its most probably an Su-35 in Syria since it doesn't have canards and has a long tail.

Unless its very simple and cheap to configure the Su-33 to carry R-77s (as in just new launch shoes and make the weapons control system treat it like R-27T? maybe?) I don't think the Russian navy is going to modify their Su-33s to do so because they have just gotten a bunch of brand new MiG-29Ks which have them while their Sea-Flankers are a bunch 30 year old airframes.

But thats just my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong.

Afaik of all the wishes only the new missile flight models are in plans for now.

This?

https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8xNzIzMjUxNi9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTYwMDI2MjU5OH0.mpEIoqx4RqAyTo2TE66KzNTdiCG7NK4qS3l1srASTl8/img.jpg

I did find a gettyimage photo labelled as a "sukhoi-su-33-fighter-aircraft-on-a-mission-to-carry-out-news-photo" with R-77s. However its most probably an Su-35 in Syria since it doesn't have canards and has a long tail.

It really doesn't matter. The Su-33 never had the ability to deploy the R-77. The WCS is practically identical to that of the Su-27 and the radar and range of compatible weapons is the same. The Su-33 doesn't even have the ability to use all its 12 weapon's stations at the same time, because the weapon's control system was ported directly over from the Su-27 and therefore only supports 10 stations.

The only real differences between the SUV-33 and SUV-27 are a much more sophisticated navigation system and an improved version of the OLS.

Unless its very simple and cheap to configure the Su-33 to carry R-77s (as in just new launch shoes and make the weapons control system treat it like R-27T? maybe?)

If you by "launch shoes" mean the AKU-170 ejector rack for the R-77, then thats not the problem - it has standard attachment points and can be mounted on stations compatible with the R-27 missiles. But the required modifications to the radar and weapon's control system for the purpose is not cheap or simple.

I don't think the Russian navy is going to modify their Su-33s to do so because they have just gotten a bunch of brand new MiG-29Ks which have them while their Sea-Flankers are a bunch 30 year old airframes.

 

But thats just my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think so(that you are wrong) :) - there are rumors that they may go for an Su-27SM style upgrade for the Su-33, but so far its just that(rumors) and the rather modest upgrades they have performed so far would IMO suggest that they have no such intentions....but we will see. :)

There were actually modernizations of Su-33 in begining of 21s century. Those included installation of L150 Pastel RWR, new satelite navigation system, modified avionics and increased service life. First machines came to service in 2002, last ones in 2007. Not sure if they added cabability to carry R-77, but its quite possible. Some machines were also made to carry SVP-24-33 computing system.

There were actually modernizations of Su-33 in begining of 21s century. Those included installation of L150 Pastel RWR, new satelite navigation system, modified avionics and increased service life. First machines came to service in 2002, last ones in 2007. Not sure if they added cabability to carry R-77, but its quite possible. Some machines were also made to carry SVP-24-33 computing system.

I don't believe thats correct SovietAce - in regards to the L150, there may have been some steps taken to introduce it that far back, but it has only materialised very recently along with the SVP-24 and other improvements.

I don't believe thats correct SovietAce - in regards to the L150, there may have been some steps taken to introduce it that far back, but it has only materialised very recently along with the SVP-24 and other improvements.

Well, I was getting info from this page: https://ruslet.webnode.cz/technika/ruska-technika/letecka-technika/p-o-suchoj/su-33-flanker-d-/. Its all in Czech language, so you will probably not understand a word from it, but there is lots of interesting informations. Its basicaly says that 7 aircrafts were modernized between years 2002 and 2007. As for English sources I could find much of it. Wiki states something about year 2010, with SVP-24 improvements starting from 2016. There is also info about 2nd stage modernizations starting from 2019 https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-04-10/su-33-begin-2nd-phase-upgrade-while-russia-mulls-carrier-options

copyright protected and doesn't like being linked but one comes up on the first page of a google image search, underbelly shot in flight, not dummy missiles, has 2 R77 and 2 R27R, recent photo.

I was just using google image search and watch a lot of combat approved Russian documentary and its youtube channel. YouTube and google man, what's this "source" crap? Are we doing a university course and you need references to publish? I'm not making it up mate, so what's wrong with talking about it?

If you ever want to see ED add them in then yes, you need sources.

So talking about the upgrades? Yea, I would love to see the FC3 aircraft updated, all of them. And not just the texture models, but to make them high fidelity... I'm very fan of hte SU-25T, it is very capable aircraft with all the roles it can fulfil...

Well, I was getting info from this page: https://ruslet.webnode.cz/technika/ruska-technika/letecka-technika/p-o-suchoj/su-33-flanker-d-/. Its all in Czech language, so you will probably not understand a word from it, but there is lots of interesting informations. Its basicaly says that 7 aircrafts were modernized between years 2002 and 2007. As for English sources I could find much of it. Wiki states something about year 2010, with SVP-24 improvements starting from 2016. There is also info about 2nd stage modernizations starting from 2019 https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-04-10/su-33-begin-2nd-phase-upgrade-while-russia-mulls-carrier-options

Thanks for the links.

To be clear - I was not disputing that the upgrade(involving the L150, SVP-24 and other items) has been carried out, but it didn't occur already in the 2002-2007 period. I remember seeing the news of freshly painted Su-33s taking to the air after the upgrade in question and that was definitely not 18 years ago :) .

Like I said, there may well have been talk and intentions to perform it back then, but this does not automatically mean that it was - as I am sure you know, Russian military officials and defence contractors are "famous" for making very optimistic statements for prospective developments in general and their expected timeframes in particular :) .

In regards to radar upgrade/R-77 compatibility, the last link you provided clearly says that this is something that is part of a possible second stage of upgrade(along with things like new datalink and new engines), which has yet to be performed - i.e. the rumored new Su-27SM style upgrade I mentioned. However, information of what exactly it will include is rather sketchy and whether it will end up being an actual Su-27SM style upgrade(including new cockpit layout) or just individual elements of it remains to be seen......if it materialises at all.

So talking about the upgrades? Yea, I would love to see the FC3 aircraft updated, all of them. And not just the texture models, but to make them high fidelity... I'm very fan of hte SU-25T, it is very capable aircraft with all the roles it can fulfil...

It'd be great if they added an ability to adjust cluster bomb settings... even doing so in the mission editor or with a bindable key... as modelling improves in other areas it is good to ensure that these aircraft keep up.

if it materialises at all.

Yeah, first they'd need to bring the carrier to a serviceable condition again (repair the damage from the sinking dock and that fire, maybe replace the faulty boilers, etc.) before they could start thinking if the Su-33 are worth sinking more money into or it's better to switch to MiG-29Ks only.

Given the current oil prices, one could hope the damage was not severe and cost-prohibitive to fix, as otherwise it wouldn't be so surprising if they decide it's just not worth fixing in the end, IMHO.

Yeah, first they'd need to bring the carrier to a serviceable condition again (repair the damage from the sinking dock and that fire, maybe replace the faulty boilers, etc.) before they could start thinking if the Su-33 are worth sinking more money into or it's better to switch to MiG-29Ks only.

 

Given the current oil prices, one could hope the damage was not severe and cost-prohibitive to fix, as otherwise it wouldn't be so surprising if they decide it's just not worth fixing in the end, IMHO.

Why so sarcastick? I would lowe to see this one to turn into full fidelity as other models and be willing to buy it again...

Why so sarcastick? I would lowe to see this one to turn into full fidelity as other models and be willing to buy it again...

Dudikoff is talking about real life. You talk about game. Clear now?

Yeah, first they'd need to bring the carrier to a serviceable condition again (repair the damage from the sinking dock and that fire, maybe replace the faulty boilers, etc.) before they could start thinking if the Su-33 are worth sinking more money into or it's better to switch to MiG-29Ks only.

 

Given the current oil prices, one could hope the damage was not severe and cost-prohibitive to fix, as otherwise it wouldn't be so surprising if they decide it's just not worth fixing in the end, IMHO.

In regards to the further Su-33 upgrade - yes thats really what I was thinking. If you look at the ship and its aircraft as a package, then its not unlikely that the extra cost of repairing/upgrading the ship that has arisen after the two mishaps could affect the upgrade plans for the Su-33.

Of course it wouldn't make much sense to spend a lot of money on the ship if the aircraft it deploys are obsolete and ineffective for modern warfare, but as you said, they already have a capable modern multirole fighter for it(MiG-29K/KUB). I don't think they are ready to give up on the Su-33 yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to take a more modest approach for the upgrade(including new engines, which they may need anyway) to keep it flying for some years, but ditch the multirole part of the upgrade - but we will see.

However, in regards to the ship I don't think they really have a choice - at least it would be a choice of whether to operate aircraft carriers at all. Considering that plans for new carriers are on a very early stage, I think a decade or so would be a realistic bet for when they could have a replacement for the Kuznetsov built and fully operational, and not having any in the meantime would be very detrimental to the navy's future aspirations in this regard.

@OP

All FC3 flight models have been updated to the current standard. Only aircraft in this game still 'dated' are the Su-25s, and even they are AFM level (the type which immediately preceded the current format).

We may someday get hi-fi versions of the older Russian models (Su-25A is a likely addition someday, as well as early MiG-29s/Su-27s) though no plans have been stated by anyone yet. More modern aircraft are going to be difficult due to Russian government interference and non-cooperation, but export models are possible, and it's theoretically possible for a non-Russia based 3rd party to due some aircraft.

As for ''updating'' FC3 aircraft in general, no, it's not going to happen in anything related to the common idea. FC3 is very likely to be phased out with time, and any aircraft represented therein would be fully price hifi modules and very separate. Recycling of external 3d assets for some of the newest like MiG-29 (only a year or two old and about 300k polys) is very possible, but all the others would likely be made from scratch.

FYI guys, when I was referring to the revisions I only meant the cockpits... The flight models and outside textures looks fine with me...