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Is Belsimtek going to release some performance charts


Quinto

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Is Belsimtek going to release some performance charts for the F-5E-3? I know it is possible to download the annex of the TO.1f5-e1 real-life Flight Manual, but:

1º Those real-life charts are really difficult to read and understand for a non trained pilot, and far too complex for simulation purposes.

2º Those charts are for the F-5E-1 model with smaller LERX and different nose, and for real life. I don´t think can be really applied for the simulator.

 

It would really nice if Belsimsek could add to the Flight Manual an annex with some nice and clear charts regarding climb speeds and angles, cruise speeds, fuel consume, flight range, etc. at full and military thrust for some typical weights and loads, altitudes, etc. It is really difficult fo create a proper flight plan without that kind of basic data. Also, some basic energy manegement charts for this simulated plane and some weapons charts would be great.

 

Come on, Belsimsek, you are a serious company, don´t wait other people do the job for you: you should provide that kind of basic information with your product since day one of release, not just wait that your pay customers do their own charts or lose a lot of time searching internet for real life-manuals that barely understand and could or could not be useful for this simulated plane. Just saying :music_whistling:

 

PD. Would be nice too if you could simulate flameouts and compressor stalls since the flight manual says that are possible under certain circunstances. :thumbup:

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This manual was updated 1990 and contains the F-5E-3.

Look on page 8 from the PDF under section G. This is the sign (E-3) to look for in the charts if the F-5E-3 has other readouts.

 

For missionplanning you can read the PDF from my post

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=180413

 

Mafuasu

 

Thank you very much, my friend, but this is just what I do not want. I do not want to have to decipher a bunch of strange graphics in low resolution and then to do a lot of arithmetic operations to calculate drag indexes and other things that are applicable in real life but probably not in a home simulation. I just want to know, for example, a good speed and angle of ascent if my plane weighs between 16,000 and 20,000 lbs, or which cruising speed is recommended if I fly at 30,000 ft. with two external deposits, and what approximate range I can expect. Basic data like that. I think Belsimtek should provide basic tables or charts with that kind of information adapted to the simulator. After all, our planes do not fly in the actual atmosphere subjected to real physics, and I doubt that those tables in the actual airplane manual really apply and most of us are not trained pilots and don´t have to know about calculate drag indexes and stuff.

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The docs referenced would provide the information you seek. It seems like a lot of useless stuff at first, but rest assured it is applicable in dcs

VF-111 Sundowners



[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Carrier Group 1 - Battlegroup Delta

 

Beware the lessons of a fighter pilot who would rather fly a slide rule than kick your ass!

-Commander Ron "Mugs" McKeown, USN

Commander, U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School

2 Victories, Vietnam

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This manual was updated 1990 and contains the F-5E-3.

Look on page 8 from the PDF under section G. This is the sign (E-3) to look for in the charts if the F-5E-3 has other readouts.

 

For missionplanning you can read the PDF from my post

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=180413

 

Mafuasu

 

Actually, I'm suspect that most of us only have the 1978 version that is uploaded in the user files.

 

EDIT: Well, my bad, actually the 1990 version is also there: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/2021504/?sphrase_id=5345260


Edited by Robin_Hood
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I just don't understand why a company does the hard work, to create the simulated airplane, and fails to do the easy work, to provide the customers, most of us not trained pilots, ALL useful information about how to fly the plane and fight with the plane. For example, most payware addons for FSX or P3D include performance charts in manuals. I don´t know why Belsimtek does not includes that kind of information in the F-5E. Also I don't understand why there isn´t a good flight planner in DCS Word, but that´s another story. :ermm:

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i dont understand why you say you want to learn but balk at actually having to make an effort

 

Because, dear Probad, DCS is a home simulation, I´m not a trained pilot and I should not have to deal with really complex graphics in low resolution from real-life manuals written for trained pilots, mathematical calculus of drag indexes and so on. Because other simulation software developers provide performance charts for their products as a basics. Because this software is really complex to use, and many people do not buy it precisely for that, so if Belsimtek makes life easy for its customers, they will probably sell more.

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Because, dear Probad, DCS is a home simulation, I´m not a trained pilot and I should not have to deal with really complex graphics in low resolution from real-life manuals written for trained pilots, mathematical calculus of drag indexes and so on. Because other simulation software developers provide performance charts for their products as a basics. Because this software is really complex to use, and many people do not buy it precisely for that, so if Belsimtek makes life easy for its customers, they will probably sell more.

 

Welcome to DCSW and yes it is complex just like them data charts and manuals, If DCSW was not this complex i wouldnt use it.

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Welcome to DCSW and yes it is complex just like them data charts and manuals, If DCSW was not this complex i wouldnt use it.

Well, congratulations. But if Belsimsek at some point releases performance charts for the F-5E, you don´t have to use them. You can continue using that low resolution charts that you have find somewere in internet and trying to figure out for yourself what is that "drag index" and how it can be useful in a simulated environmet. You know that, don't you? But you can understand that some simmers prefer nice and clear charts and data, don´t you?

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Well if you think getting nice clean charts is easy then yes, However imagaine looking at WW2 aircraft charts i know the Hispano Buchon had been found in bits (Or a manual atleast)

 

No, I think getting nice and clean performance charts for Belsimtek´s F-5E is difficult, so I´m asking belsimsek to do some for his costumers, because I think that to do some nice and clean charts is easy for Belsimtek since they know the data of performance of his simulated F-5E like no one in the world. So, us, the costumers, most of us not trained pilots, would not need to try to decipher real-life charts made for trained pilots. I know my english is not the best, because I´m from Spain, but I think I´m making my point pretty clear. :thumbup:

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Your point is clear. However, have you considered that the design of the DCS F-5 was accomplished using the manuals you won't use as a guide? The performance of the F-5 may not be exact but it's close enough for simming. Have you tried reading the real world manuals? They really aren't that difficult to understand with a little effort

VF-111 Sundowners



[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Carrier Group 1 - Battlegroup Delta

 

Beware the lessons of a fighter pilot who would rather fly a slide rule than kick your ass!

-Commander Ron "Mugs" McKeown, USN

Commander, U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School

2 Victories, Vietnam

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BSM has take a lot of pictures from the original handbook.

And they explain many procedures and system very well.

It's a lot of graphic work to do for what you asked. They have to draw all charts new that already exist IN the original handbook.

 

I'm working with the handbook charts every time I'm flying and the resolution is not the best, BUT you can read it all very good to get the points you are looking for.

 

When I read your post I thought you want ready combinations for diffrent loadouts and fuel? This is not possible to do, except very elementary.

Any Fly needs diffrent setups, because the wether, payload, range, etc.

So, if you want to fly very easy use the arcade version :music_whistling: or read a few pages of the manual, as I posted in my other post, and plan your mission as real as this wonderful and very complex simulator can do.

 

But command BSM to do not necessary work while they have many important stuff to do to give us still more realistic modules is not the best thing to do :(

 

greetings mafuasu

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Your point is clear. However, have you considered that the design of the DCS F-5 was accomplished using the manuals you won't use as a guide? The performance of the F-5 may not be exact but it's close enough for simming. Have you tried reading the real world manuals? They really aren't that difficult to understand with a little effort

 

My dear Zooker, have you considered that DCS is not a profesional simulation, but a home simulation? Have you ever considered that is a simulation? Belsimtek´s F-5E "flyes" in a simulated environment, not into the real atmosphere, as the real F-5E. If you think that Belsimsek´s F-5E "flys" like Nortroph´s F-5E, I´m afraid you are in a mistake.

 

Yes, even being spanish and english my second language, and even not being a trained pilot, I have read the real world manuals. If you understand those low resolution charts and calculate drag indexes and stuff every time you make a mision in the editor, congratulations. But I suspect that most of the people that says that uses those real-life manuals like real pilots, calculate drag indexes according the weight every fly, because they are hardcore simmers or something, and etcetera, when they fly, actually just use only two throttle positions: full and afterburner, as arcade players, and that´s because they don´t ask for performance charts: they don´t need them! :harhar:

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I think his request is fine. The addition of performance charts in the manual would be nice to see.

 

Thanks, mate. I´m starting to think that most people here actually works for Belsimsek and don´t want to do the tedious work of completing the manual :lol:

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When I read your post I thought you want ready combinations for diffrent loadouts and fuel? This is not possible to do, except very elementary.

Any Fly needs diffrent setups, because the wether, payload, range, etc.

So, if you want to fly very easy use the arcade version :music_whistling: or read a few pages of the manual, as I posted in my other post, and plan your mission as real as this wonderful and very complex simulator can do.

 

greetings mafuasu

 

Dear mafuasu, the best addons for FSX, P3D or Xplane, not arcade versions but hardcore simulations, includes "operating data", ready combinations for different loadouts and fuel. For example, I´m now reading the manual of A2A´s L-049 Constellation and it includes four pages of operating data. Elementary? Well, yes, but really useful for a home simulator. Think that most of the people have jobs, family, friends, and can´t spend several hours planning a fly, like real-life pilots, every time they want to enjoy the simulator.

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No harm in asking for them and indeed BST would be best placed to provide them. If it helps more people get into simming then its a good thing. Whether they provide them or not is up to them.

 

No need for the elitist attitude just because a guy asked.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]



64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron

Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron

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No harm in asking for them and indeed BST would be best placed to provide them. If it helps more people get into simming then its a good thing. Whether they provide them or not is up to them.

 

No need for the elitist attitude just because a guy asked.

 

Exactly my point. Thanks.

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