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Trying to learn to fly this thing- Is it really possible?


Charley

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I just got this sim a few weeks ago & like it, just can't fly it. I can finally take off & land after adjusting the rudder curve. Maneuvering though, seems absolutely impossible. Trying to dogfight that instant AI guy , I can only do the mildest of climbs before stalling. Most of the time I can barely raise the nose of the plane without having it shudder. Same thing with turning, I have to be oh, so careful. Meanwhile , that AI guy climbs 10 times as fast as me & flies rings around me. I think I even saw him give me an obscene gesture. I don't really know what I'm doing wrong.

Also, I noticed in someone else's post a mention of "Tacview & ACMI" . It sounds like something that might help, but I don't know what it is. Is it something in my game, or is it something I put in the game? Is there any place online that teaches newbies how to fly this sim? I don't want to get in the way of the people that know what they're doing.

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Think of this sim as a real aeroplane.

 

You first must read the 'user manual' - All of us RL pilots have too. Luckily enough you can prang this a/c with few consequences..

 

Next trick is Complex Engine Management (CEM)... You must become a 'Petrol-Head' before a 'Propellor-Head'. You. know.. those dials, switches and levers that you fiddle with. You must know these!!

 

OK.. so you have that all wrapped. Rudder Pedals and Joystick are a basic essential, otherwise you'll have difficulty getting to the runway for takeoff.

 

Call back later when you're done :-)

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you at least need a stick - rudder pedals are a 'nice to have', but you'll be making life harder for yourself without them (I'm just using the twist on my msffb II for rudder )

 

Learn to fly it before you learn to fight in it.

 

Get in the air and make gentle co-ordinated turns, then build up to tighter turns and vertical movements - learn what it looks and feels like before it stalls.

 

Once you can fly near the limits without an enemy, fight an enemy...

Cheers.

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Welcome to the club. She is not for the meek or timid. Mastering the Mustang is an investment... and a process. Like Weta stated, having the right equipment to start will help and I agree a good set of pedals is the right way to go. You will get frustrated at times, that's pretty much a given, but stick with it. The reward is definitely worth it. There is a wealth of information on here at your disposal, make sure you use it.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

[Dogs of War] WWII COMBAT SERVER | P-51D - FW190-D9 - Me109-K4

Visit Our Website & Forum to Get More Info & Team Speak Access

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Is there any place online that teaches newbies how to fly this sim

 

I mentioned it a few times and I think it's a real good idea to fly with some experienced online pilots.

I like the Virtual Aerobatics Public server because there are no weapons allowed and you can practice simple flying maneuvers or aerobatics or formation flying (watch the VH guys - they are pretty good ;)).

My callsign is 'Duc'.

If you meet me there - contact me via chat (RAlt+m) and I'll be happy to lend you a helping hand.

And you can contact the other P-51 guys. Most of them are really helpfull.

If you have teamspeak - even better.

(sorry - I can't set up my rig for teamspeak. I get terrible mic/headphone latancy issues due to the nature of my audio setup. Maybe I should get one of these nice usb-headsets with build in soundcards?).

 

You should set the curves of your joystick.

This will help to minimize overcompensation and input errors to a certain degree.

Next important thing is elevator trim - if you're lucky to have enough axis on your joystick/hotas

- map it to that axis.

Learn to trim.

 

Go online - don't be shy. Talk to the next Mustang buddy.

You'll see: It's all about learning the behaviour of the plane.

Once you 'got it' you'll see that this is a superb flying machine. Flying it is a great pleasure, even if you are not interested in the military nature of the plane.

It's modell in this sim is a masterpiece.


Edited by Konrad Friedrich
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You should set the curves of your joystick.

 

Do note that setting up a curve may make it easier for you to make fine adjustments at one area of your joystick (around the center, if it's anything like a standard curve), but it will make it harder to make fine adjustments at another area (around half-way pulled-back, on standard curves). In short, curves typically borrow precision from the ~50% deflected range and give it to the ~0–15% range, which can make it easier to do straight-and-level gunnery and keep your airplane steady, but it will make it significantly harder to ride the edge of the stall and make a good turn.

 

I myself have never used any curves ever since the first time I flew a real airplane--in a real airplane, the slightest motion of the stick yields results. With a curve, you have to really yank the stick for anything to happen, and that isn't right. Now, I'll grant, real airplane sticks aren't nearly as "twitchy," because of tactile feedback and balanced mass and such, but I'd rather have my direct input and deal with the unfortunately necessary twitchiness of gaming joysticks than have a false ratio and lose some of my potential precision for stall fighting. Your choice, but know that curves are a trade-off.

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I get terrible mic/headphone latancy issues due to the nature of my audio setup. Maybe I should get one of these nice usb-headsets with build in soundcards?

 

Hey man, I can vouch for the Steel Series Siberia headset. Love mine. Good mic and decent USB soundcard. Also tends to be comfortable over the longhaul... which is important.

 

Product Website

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

[Dogs of War] WWII COMBAT SERVER | P-51D - FW190-D9 - Me109-K4

Visit Our Website & Forum to Get More Info & Team Speak Access

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Do note that setting up a curve may make it easier for you to make fine adjustments at one area of your joystick (around the center, if it's anything like a standard curve), but it will make it harder to make fine adjustments at another area (around half-way pulled-back, on standard curves). In short, curves typically borrow precision from the ~50% deflected range and give it to the ~0–15% range, which can make it easier to do straight-and-level gunnery and keep your airplane steady, but it will make it significantly harder to ride the edge of the stall and make a good turn.

 

I myself have never used any curves ever since the first time I flew a real airplane--in a real airplane, the slightest motion of the stick yields results. With a curve, you have to really yank the stick for anything to happen, and that isn't right. Now, I'll grant, real airplane sticks aren't nearly as "twitchy," because of tactile feedback and balanced mass and such, but I'd rather have my direct input and deal with the unfortunately necessary twitchiness of gaming joysticks than have a false ratio and lose some of my potential precision for stall fighting. Your choice, but know that curves are a trade-off.

 

Good points here, Josh.

And I agree. I don't use curves either for the P-51 with the TM Warthog because I don't have the feel that I need it. I've tried it for a while but I feel more comfortable without.

And I think it depends to a certain degree what hardware you use.

(I think I can remember that some of the devs mentioned that they recommend to set curves because of the short throw of the an PC joystick.)

It's up to the virtual pilot what he/she will prefer when getting grips on their sim plane.

 

But for any newbie it's a big help to get used to the somewhat unpredictable behaviour of the Mustang.

It helps to ease the frustration whenever the handsome Pony turns out to have the heart of a wild Bronco :P

And... riding on the absolute edge of a stall turn is anyway out of reach for any beginner... :joystick:


Edited by Konrad Friedrich
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Hey man, I can vouch for the Steel Series Siberia headset. Love mine. Good mic and decent USB soundcard. Also tends to be comfortable over the longhaul... which is important.

Product Website

 

Thanks!

I'll check that out.

If anyone has another good suggestion - drop a note ;)

 

My 'problem';) is that I got a complete studio setup here for recording and - mainly - production and mixing purposes.

(yes - that looks pretty weird - a place full of cables, small mixing console, controllers, keyboard... my beloved bass... and sometimes a even more weird looking setup of my flight gear... lol)

My audio setup runs through firewire and any microphone has to go into that system and then routed back to the headphones or monitors.

That works pretty good with low latency - unless I start teamspeak.

I then can hear myself with an delay. I

I've tried to not route my own voice back - but talking without hearing what you say is somewhat weird...

I've tried to sort it out but I gave up at some point... I'm a laaazy guy... :music_whistling::D

 

Oooops. I think we are off-topic here... Sorry.:P


Edited by Konrad Friedrich
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Hiya,

 

Handling the Mustang is an art that takes time to master, it really is a different beast to the other aircraft.

 

Come join us in the Virtual Aerobatics server, especially helpful if you can be in teamspeak as it makes it easier for us to help you

 

I dont fly combat in it as the game is simply too simple in combat terms (P51 vs P51 is just boring) but that said I do alot of aerobatics and generally dont have a problem with the correct settings and technique

 

Pman

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Much thanks to everyone for the much needed advice,and especially for the invitation to join the Virtual Aerobatics server. If you guys don't really mind I think I will give that a try in a day or two. I will try to listen to a few more of those in-game tutorials first & then try jumping in ( I need to crash in private a few more times) . Thanks again to everyone.

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The most important is, while the learning curve is steep, don't give up and practice, practice, practice. Reward and satisfaction will come by itself.

Learning online is the best. And don't forget, "RTFM"! (Read the F*** Manual)

DCS Wish: Turbulences affecting surrounding aircraft...

[sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]

Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3P - Intel Core i5 6600K - 16Gb RAM DDR4-2133 - Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 G1 Gaming - 8 Go - 2 x SSD Crucial MX300 - 750 Go RAID0 - Screens: HP OMEN 32'' 2560x1440 + Oculus Rift CV1 - Win 10 - 64bits - TM WARTHOG #889 - Saitek Pro Rudder.

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Do note that setting up a curve may make it easier for you to make fine adjustments at one area of your joystick (around the center, if it's anything like a standard curve), but it will make it harder to make fine adjustments at another area (around half-way pulled-back, on standard curves). In short, curves typically borrow precision from the ~50% deflected range and give it to the ~0–15% range, which can make it easier to do straight-and-level gunnery and keep your airplane steady, but it will make it significantly harder to ride the edge of the stall and make a good turn.

 

I myself have never used any curves ever since the first time I flew a real airplane--in a real airplane, the slightest motion of the stick yields results. With a curve, you have to really yank the stick for anything to happen, and that isn't right. Now, I'll grant, real airplane sticks aren't nearly as "twitchy," because of tactile feedback and balanced mass and such, but I'd rather have my direct input and deal with the unfortunately necessary twitchiness of gaming joysticks than have a false ratio and lose some of my potential precision for stall fighting. Your choice, but know that curves are a trade-off.

 

+1!

as long as your hardware devices are half decent, then try to fly without input curves...you will probably get used to it pretty quickly...only add curvature if its really necessary in case of bad spiking of joystick or pedals...

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+1!

as long as your hardware devices are half decent, then try to fly without input curves...you will probably get used to it pretty quickly...only add curvature if its really necessary in case of bad spiking of joystick or pedals...

 

He flew with me the other day...took him thru some of the steps, he did quite well ....and he uses a X52 Saitek...system....cheers..:thumbup:

[/Table]

Recruiting for Aerobatic Team/Fighter Group...

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Gonna buy this the morrow for my first fixed wing aircraft, be on the server on Friday tho :music_whistling:

 

look forward to seeing you there mate ;)

 

Ya know where I am if you need me :)

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Echo38, I am amazed that you don't use any curves! What kind of joystick & set up do you have? I don't really feel like I have a good understanding of curves & saturation X & Y yet, but I started out with no curves & did absolutely terrible. I couldn't even breathe on the controls without a huge input, especially the rudders. I have Saitek rudder pedals & Saitek X52 ( not the Pro, the "Amateur").

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I fly on the Pony with an X52Pro without any curves and it's fine. I think that the regular X52 isn't much worse than a Pro.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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Echo38, I am amazed that you don't use any curves! What kind of joystick & set up do you have? I don't really feel like I have a good understanding of curves & saturation X & Y yet, but I started out with no curves & did absolutely terrible. I couldn't even breathe on the controls without a huge input, especially the rudders. I have Saitek rudder pedals & Saitek X52 ( not the Pro, the "Amateur").

 

I'm currently using a Thrustmaster T.16000M (it's all right, for a commercial stick) and CH Pro Pedals (which I quite dislike, but it's better than no pedals). I also have an X52 (like yours, not the Pro), but I found it unacceptable for competitive dogfighting (or any other activity requiring precise inputs); the X52 has the second-largest hard dead zone of any joystick I've handled--about a centimeter. Since I consider a millimeter of dead zone on a joystick to be much too large, you can imagine how I feel about the X52. I myself would not use curves even with the X52, but I do know that precise flying with my X52 is impossible due to the enormous hard dead zone. My gun accuracy average while using the X52 was approximately half of my gunnery average while using the T.16000M. (IIRC, the figures were ~15% and ~27%, respectively, in Rise of Flight adversarial multiplayer; not sure about the former figure, as it's been a couple of years.)

 

As for your second point about breathing on the controls--remember I said that I consider a millimeter deadzone to be large? You should be making fine, careful motions, at least most of the time (rolling scissors are an exception). A millimeter of motion (measured at the top of the stick) is a significant input, if you're using direct input. The key is a gentle touch and a decent joystick--and by "decent," I mean that it doesn't spike or jiggle more than perhaps a quarter millimeter, and has no more than roughly a quarter millimeter of hardware deadzone, in the center. Ideally, you don't want any spike, jiggle, or dead zone at all, but commercial simming/gaming joysticks are all made very shoddily, compared to a real aircraft stick.


Edited by Echo38
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For me learning to fly the pony clicked after using a LAN multiplayer session on my own (so I can respawn as often as I want) and just trying to take off for about an hour. I left dozens of smoking wrecks strewn across the area but I was getting airborne by the end. Just don't give up and keep practising.

Always remember. I don't have a clue what I'm doing

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