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Huey and landing! Where are those experts pilot with quick landing :)


Frag

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I think you still don’t understand what we do. I encourage you to stop by BSD and fly a mission with us because it’s definitely not all about long flights and straight in approaches.

 

 

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Are you ready to take your chopper flying skills to the next level?

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I'm probably not the best person to learn off of to be honest - I've never tried to fly properly, I just flew it until I stopped crashing, and then tried more and more stupid stuff until I stopped crashing doing that too. Tips I'd have (which probably fly in the face of the proper way of doing things) - coming in low is easier than high, coming in sideways is easier than forwards, and use your tail rotor to help slow you down (in pretty much every landing I've got full tail rotor helping me slow). Learning collective control is the biggest hurdle to flying properly - as you'll see in the track I'm constantly moving it trying to 'catch' the thrust and neutralise the descent.

 

As promised, I did try and do a little airshow today, which went swimmingly until I overcooked it and bashed the rotor. There are some nice landings in here anyway, and I'll upload the track as well so you can sit in the cockpit and watch the controls to see if that helps (if you see the pedals spaz out at random times that's not intentional, having a weird input issue...). Enjoy!

 

First person:

Third person:

 

I do play in VR so apologies if those are jittery!

I'm impressed to see such a precise :thumbup: landing skills.

I knew that the tail rotor reduces speed, but to effectively use it is a new experience for me.

This technique I have to start training, thank you very much Backspace for the explanation and sharing content.

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<typo>

 

On a more practical note, keep in mind the Huey Pilots in Vietnam were well trained, and practiced a lot so they knew the aircraft it's limits and the Army Flight Manual. I'd recommend Chicken Hawk it gave me some insight and was also a recommended read to me from a friend. :D

 

 

The other thing I'd mention with the Huey, any heli really, is listen to the rotor and turbine sounds that will tell you a lot of whats going on especially going in and out of ETL.

 

I also found adding dynamic weather and wind helpful for practise.

 

 

HTH

 

Did he really shoot out the omni gauge. :doh:


Edited by FragBum

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

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Chicken Hawk was a great book I also highly recommend To The Limit by Tom A Johnson it’s currently my personal favorite.

 

 

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Are you ready to take your chopper flying skills to the next level?

Then check out http://www.blacksharkden.com/ Or visit us on Discord https://discord.gg/kaayJ5z and talk to some of our awesome pilots today.

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I’m not really sure what the OP wanted if he would like to take your advice than that’s fine it’s a game.

 

Actually, I learned a lot from many of you in this thread, which is the idea of a forum in the first place. I was falling in vortex ring state so much often that I started to doubt that any quick landing was even possible in DCS. This is the reason why I asked to see if some were able to do it.

 

So both Backspace and EagleRising helped me out a lot here (Thank you a lot guys... I owe you a beer). Backspace proved me with his first video that indeed the physic engine will let you land quickly when you will get hang of it. And EagleRising clarified everything in my mind by explaining some chopper based flight physic that I could not really pick up with the training mission. I am an engineer so I am all about understanding the physics that you play with. Also I really like the helipcopter training series on youtube. This is golden!

 

My landing are already getting WAY better. I am still struggling when the ground effect kicks in, but at least now I understand why and know how to fight it. I just need to practice at this point.

 

It the first time with DCS that I explore the helicopter flight sim world and LOVE it. I have thousands of hours with fixed wing aircraft sims, but I have to say that handling choppers is A WHOLE NEW WORLD.

 

There is a mission here written by tobi named "Train Heist". That mission will not represent in any way any real life situation, but it forces you to "hover" over a slow moving train. i use the mission to get hang of the flight controls. You approach the train at very high speed, slow down to like 20 knots and come close to the ground, which will put you in ground effectand vortex ring state if you are not carefull ... So all those steps are also present in a landing, which is why that mission is helping me practicing my controls.

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I am an engineer so I am all about understanding the physics that you play with. Also I really like the helipcopter training series on youtube.

I suggest this as a first read for anyone going into the world of helicopters, be it for simulators or real world:

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/helicopter_flying_handbook/

 

It's free (pdf, cheap as printed), not to long, fairly easy to read, good pictures and handle most aspects in the art. Of course you might have read it already but no harm in mentioning it.

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https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-04-203/fm3-04-203.pdf Fundamentals of flight is also a great one as well it is more from the military perspective.

 

And just to reiterate my previous statements. I really don't want to put down Backspace for his flying but I can not recommend anything he said really I just recommend that you get a good understanding of the principles of flight first so that you can connect it to what you are doing in the aircraft and practice deliberately.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Are you ready to take your chopper flying skills to the next level?

Then check out http://www.blacksharkden.com/ Or visit us on Discord https://discord.gg/kaayJ5z and talk to some of our awesome pilots today.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a quick word to let you guys know that I finally got the hang out of it. I can now gracefully land ... ok not as quick as you guys ... but enough to be able to do mission without crashing at every landing.

 

You guys showed me the way with all the goof information provided in this thread.

 

Thanks again! I owe you one!

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I've got a question regarding using the tail rotor to "help you slow down".

Before I ask it, I'll mention that to rapidly decelerate prior to touching down, I turn the airframe sideways then aggressively cyclic roll away from the landing target. This allows me to Nose Up (flare aggressively) without tail striking ground. Having said this, I must say that I don't use such methods whilst involved in mission/multiplayer flyin cuz I am more interested in realistic use of the sim as opposed to arcading.

ABSOLUTELY NO KNOCK ON ARCADERS.

OK, back to the question.

Is the tail rotor slowing the airframe down by bleeding available power from the main rotor as opposed to applying its thrust vector to do so?

If the later is true, then one would want to turn rightward relative to the target as opposed to leftward as in Backspaces vid.


Edited by Chic

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I've got a question regarding using the tail rotor to "help you slow down".

Before I ask it, I'll mention that to rapidly decelerate prior to touching down, I turn the airframe sideways then aggressively cyclic roll away from the landing target. This allows me to Nose Up (flare aggressively) without tail striking ground. Having said this, I must say that I don't use such methods whilst involved in mission/multiplayer flyin cuz I am more interested in realistic use of the sim as opposed to arcading.

ABSOLUTELY NO KNOCK ON ARCADERS.

OK, back to the question.

Is the tail rotor slowing the airframe down by bleeding available power from the main rotor as opposed to applying its thrust vector to do so?

If the later is true, then one would want to turn rightward relative to the target as opposed to leftward as in Backspaces vid.

 

Actually quite an interesting question. Can't wait to sea what EagleRising will say about that one.

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I think its the drag provide by the side of the aircraft, the tail boom and the side on tail rotor that slows you down.

its like the mother of all airbrakes.

a turn to the right demands less power for the tail rotor so there will be more power to maintain rotor rpm if you are late/heavy on the collective.

 

so you should have less rotor droop with a turn to the right.

 

but the braking effect should be the same left or right.

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Indeed interesting there isn't much mention about making sideways and indeed even reverse approaches in the manuals, so it's not just me. :D

 

However the maximum amount of thrust from the tail rotor is only the amount required to maintain or change the attitude of the aircraft on that axis. After all any more or any less would result in the aircraft rotating from the main rotor torque. I would also be interested to find out but expect it would be a smallish effect after all vectored thrust from the tail rotor is still thrust. I only really think about it in terms of use the anti-torque (cyclic and collective) to position the big fan when doing so. ;)

 

This method works for all of em :music_whistling:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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@Chic

I don't think it's arcadey to do it like that. I'm not a Huey pilot in real life, but I slow down exactly as you describe too in the sim. I started doing it simply because it's the most effective method. I have no doubt real pilots do it as well. Would be interesting to hear a real Huey driver pitch in!

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As I remember it, there're a couple of guys here who've flown the real thing. Would be interesting if they chipped in.

 

Not sure about the tail rotor's role in slowing the thing down, though. AFAIR the RL UH-1 tail rotor was pretty ineffective and didn't actually have enough thrust to even keep the chopper straight in some situations when the PIC pulled collective; although this is just anecdotal so take it for what it's worth. Again, would be interesting if someone in the know chipped in.

 

Flew her again myself today after a long break, BTW. She rawks; didn't even remember what a loosely flying in formation bunch of nuts and bolts of fun she is :D

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its much the same as broadsiding a car, ripping a board/surf/skate, and flicking on mtb, the sideways movement works to scrub of speed quickly acting like a brake.

imagine a piece of card held sideways on edge, swing that round in your hand, then turn it face on, you can feel the friction effect

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@Chic

I don't think it's arcadey to do it like that. I'm not a Huey pilot in real life, but I slow down exactly as you describe too in the sim. I started doing it simply because it's the most effective method. I have no doubt real pilots do it as well. Would be interesting to hear a real Huey driver pitch in!

 

Nope, we don’t do this IRL. Couple of big problems with it:

 

1. Loss of tail rotor effectiveness. If you turn right and decel moving left, you are in danger of tail rotor VRS. If you do it the other way, the aircraft will want to weathercock and you will run out of left pedal.

 

2. Door gunners. If you are doing a tactical insert like that, your door gunners can’t shoot anything to defend your aircraft if the LZ is cherry.

 

3. Skids straight. If you lose an engine (or the engine in game, since I fly a twin), you will hit the ground sideways and flip in a spinning mass of death

 

4. Sidewards flight limitation. My aircraft (CH146 Griffon) has a limit of 35kts sidewards flight, related to point 1 above. Don’t know about the Huey.

 

5. There’s no need, we can get her slowed down in a Tac decel straight ahead just fine :)

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Never did in a real UH-1 as well as in any other helicopter although there are obviously civil guys who did stuff like this IRL.

I would not call this good habits. Reasons are already pointed out.

 

That’s an interesting one. Looks to me like he was approaching downwind and pedal turned it into wind for the landing. Maybe terrain or turbulence made for a one way approach... I wouldn’t do that heavy though, that’s an overtorque waiting to happen

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That’s an interesting one. Looks to me like he was approaching downwind and pedal turned it into wind for the landing. Maybe terrain or turbulence made for a one way approach... I wouldn’t do that heavy though, that’s an overtorque waiting to happen
Thought that too. But the terrain looks open enough to make a wider approach (in the background so to say) and come in for landing into the wind. If that doesn't work and it is turbulence that make the pilot to opt for that approach, it is too much turbulence for heli-skiing in the first place (i.e. not worth the risks flying civilians for that cause, in those conditions). In my opinion he is also way to close the passengers for the actual landing. Would say it's all for the show.

No doubt a skilled pilot (when it comes to control, not risk assessment...), but too bold. And I assume you all know the saying: “There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.”

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After seeing this thread, I decided to dig out the Huey and try this manoeuvre at 53.30, as used by the Chinook in Afghanistan, as a run in for a quick landing.

 

 

The, nose down 270 quick stop.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still working on it..

..

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After seeing this thread, I decided to dig out the Huey and try this manoeuvre at 53.30, as used by the Chinook in Afghanistan, as a run in for a quick landing.

 

 

The, nose down 270 quick stop.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still working on it..

..

 

Ha the chinook ... another helicopter I would sell my soul to have available in DCS.

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@Holbeach

 

nice find that one. saw the chinook display at Cleethorpes a few years ago.

 

I like the way they swap to the other squadrons older chinook for the display.

the one without the flight computer that keeps freaking out :)

 

that 270 quick stop would probably work better in a ka 50.

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As I remember it, there're a couple of guys here who've flown the real thing. Would be interesting if they chipped in.

 

Not sure about the tail rotor's role in slowing the thing down, though. AFAIR the RL UH-1 tail rotor was pretty ineffective and didn't actually have enough thrust to even keep the chopper straight in some situations when the PIC pulled collective; although this is just anecdotal so take it for what it's worth. Again, would be interesting if someone in the know chipped in.

 

Flew her again myself today after a long break, BTW. She rawks; didn't even remember what a loosely flying in formation bunch of nuts and bolts of fun she is :D

 

The maneuver is definitely not best practices and I haven't and won't do it in a huey. But I don't fly in combat so don't know if someone would do it in an oh shit situation. I have however done it in an MD-500 while herding fish. I know sounds crazy, but we would herd tuna into fishing nets. Anyway you're very low and fast darting around the school and I would do sideways and even backwards quickstops to avoid sticking the tail in the water. It was accepted that aircraft wouldn't last very long and you may go for a swim, but they only had to last a year out there to turn a profit. I had a friend catch his float on a wave doing it and he swam away unscathed and they had him a new helicopter three days later.

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