MonnieRock Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Not really, I expressed my opinion, and I am of the opinion that most people don't haul their DCS rig along when they go camping or sit on a beach somewhere, it's my opinion, based on our statements, I am allowed to have and share that. I respect your opinion. we both agree to: A person's personal opinion is Their prerogative. SO not sure why you are so hung up on the vacation thing, but have at it. Because, something we agreed upon: A person's personal opinion is Their prerogative. It is my opinion. If we agree on something. What is good for you, is just as equally good for me or others, as we all are equal voices. Unless there is some form of discrimination going on. Happy Simming, Monnie Rack Rig: Rosewill RSV-L4000 | Koolance ERM-3K3UC | Xeon E5-1680 v2 @ 4.9ghz w/EK Monoblock | Asus Rampage IV Black Edition | 64GB 2133mhz | SLI TitanXP w/ EK Waterblocks | 2x Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB | Seasonic 1000w Titanium | Windows 10 Pro 64bit | TM Warthog HOTAS w/40cm Extension | MFG Crosswind Rudders | Obutto R3volution | HP Reverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 6, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 6, 2017 So can we both agree to get back on topic now, whatever that might be at this point... I respect your opinion. we both agree to: A person's personal opinion is Their prerogative. Because, something we agreed upon: A person's personal opinion is Their prerogative. It is my opinion. If we agree on something. What is good for you, is just as equally good for me as we are equal voices. Unless there is some form of discrimination going on. Happy Simming, Monnie Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonnieRock Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Sounds good Sir, I agree Happy Simming, Monnie Rack Rig: Rosewill RSV-L4000 | Koolance ERM-3K3UC | Xeon E5-1680 v2 @ 4.9ghz w/EK Monoblock | Asus Rampage IV Black Edition | 64GB 2133mhz | SLI TitanXP w/ EK Waterblocks | 2x Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB | Seasonic 1000w Titanium | Windows 10 Pro 64bit | TM Warthog HOTAS w/40cm Extension | MFG Crosswind Rudders | Obutto R3volution | HP Reverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchCrypt Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Hardly similar to the situation we find ourselves in right now though.... with DCS. And the poll doesn't contain all the options ED is looking at for their new DRM, so kinda takes the air out of the poll even more. My experience of statistical analysis in a manufacturing arena simply showed ignoring data cost a company $$$. I would believe the lesson learned would apply to any company that ignores adverse quality results or direct customer feedback. As far as the current poll, I would agree that the number of people voting for 90 days is not directly representative of the general population of DCS users. Why? Because I would bet everyone who voted 90 days actually did so only because the "never" option was not present :smilewink: Alienware Area-51M: i7-9700K, 165Hz 27" ASUS Swift PG279 IPS with G-SYNC, 32GB DDR4 Ram, 1TB M.2 PCie x4 SSD, 1TB SSHD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 8GB GDDR6, Windows 10, CH Eclipse... Check out my fictional F/A 18-C Hornet and Su33 Flanker skins at: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/?CREATED_BY=WytchCrypt&set_filter=Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckle Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Regardless, the point is, these polls dont even reach 1% of the ED customer base, I doubt the location would have made much of a difference, even if you had twice the votes, you are still barely scrapping the surface. To be sure, is it an option to poll all users via the weekly update email? Please include "never" just to make certain the responses are reflective of the community's opinions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Rico Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 To be sure, is it an option to poll all users via the weekly update email? Please include "never" just to make certain the responses are reflective of the community's opinions.. +1 to adding never option, it would be a more comprehensive poll METAR weather for DCS World missions Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203 SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245 Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 6, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 6, 2017 +1 to adding never option, it would be a more comprehensive poll Not sure adding an option for ED to have no checks in place is a viable option, I think it would make the poll even less useful, not to mention adding options after people have already voted doesnt seem right. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 True, its a tiny amount of registered forum users. Nontheless, you don't need a very high number to get pretty accurate results... [math] Just remember that this works best when the population is uniform. You could argue that vocal forum members might have different priorities from casual forum members, and that both might have different concerns from non forum members. All that said, the poll is probably reasonably accurate. Even if it works well a lot of the time, it's not hard to find yourself in a situation where you lose your connection for 3 days or even a few days more. True, but ED cant design anything around everyone's personal prerogative can they? I would guess most people that go on vacation don't go for the joy of playing DCS in some exotic area? If you have to plan for Joe Blo that likes to sip wine on the beach and drop JDAMs, its gonna get pretty tough... True, but the new DRM was also sprung out of nowhere. Asking for opinions on it first might have made things smoother. I think a few posts cited complaints with Starforce as one of the reasons behind the change, but the thing is people happy with Starforce most likely didn't feel a need to say they were happy with it. I never mentioned my opinion on that system unless a thread came up criticizing it. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 6, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 6, 2017 Asking for opinions on it first might have made things smoother. Open Beta. That is what Open Beta is for. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Open Beta. That is what Open Beta is for. In this case that's only going to be available to Harrier users though. What you say is still true, but the number of people who can give feedback will be reduced. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 6, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 6, 2017 In this case that's only going to be available to Harrier users though. What you say is still true, but the number of people who can give feedback will be reduced. Yet it seems to be enough to warrant all this attention and opinions. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Yet it seems to be enough to warrant all this attention and opinions. In part because it's going to be implemented to all modules. What I'm saying is that it's in everyone's interest to see how the new system works, but only a few will get a chance, at least for now. Asking about this beforehand would have let everyone get involved. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 6, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 6, 2017 In part because it's going to be implemented to all modules. What I'm saying is that it's in everyone's interest to see how the new system works, but only a few will get a chance, at least for now. Asking about this beforehand would have let everyone get involved. Still not sure what you mean, you are basically getting a preview, before hand, while it's only on the Harrier and only in Early Access. It's basically what you said they should do, and they are doing it. And to top it off, they are already reviewing it. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Not sure adding an option for ED to have no checks in place is a viable option,... It would not be 'no checks'. It would be just like Starforce is now, since there is no evidence that Starforce checks periodically. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 6, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 6, 2017 It would not be 'no checks'. It would be just like Starforce is now, since there is no evidence that Starforce checks periodically. But Startforce checks something, it's just different than the new DRM. So instead of 'no checks' you would want an option of hardware checks wouldnt you? Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Rico Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 But Startforce checks something, it's just different than the new DRM. So instead of 'no checks' you would want an option of hardware checks wouldnt you? Not sure what you are meaning You mean starforce checks the current PC hardware against what PC hardware the module is activated against, to ensure it is on the same PC ? Of course it does not need internet connection to do that METAR weather for DCS World missions Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203 SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245 Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 6, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 6, 2017 Not sure what you are meaning You mean starforce checks the current PC hardware against what the module is activated against, to ensure it is on the same PC ? Of course it does not need internet connection to do that Ugh, but if you put down that the new DRM should never expire, then it has to have another check to replace that... you cant just have no protection. SO if you have a never expires, you need to replace it with another check. Starforce checks for hardware changes, if you dont have one, you need the other, or something. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Rico Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) Ah get you now So more like DRM will not expire unless PC hardware has changed significantly, hardware is checked each time program is launched kinda deal ? Edited December 6, 2017 by Johnny_Rico METAR weather for DCS World missions Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203 SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245 Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 6, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 6, 2017 Something like that, or like others have suggested, checks on updates. I am not a DRM expert though, so I am not sure what is best or what options they have, so I am happy to wait to see what ED comes back with. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) It would not be 'no checks'. It would be just like Starforce is now, since there is no evidence that Starforce checks periodically. How do you think Starforce Pro-Active DRM Console determines that a key has been blacklisted by Starforce? Starforce Console Checks License Key Status, along w/ other Parameters Like Machine Code against Code stored on Server, if it's been Suspended, Expires, BlackListed, etc When You Launch DCS.exe, Every xxxxx_protect.exe for every module you have installed processes said request. If you don't believe that to be the case, ask any user that bought a License Key from Middle-Shop Website who purchased their lot of keys through fraud, and their key has since been black listed, and they can no longer use that module until they purchased a license from a authorized store front. Edited December 6, 2017 by SkateZilla Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mue Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 If you don't believe that to be the case, ask any user that bought a License Key from Middle-Shop Website who purchased their lot of keys through fraud, and their key has since been black listed, and they can no longer use that module until they purchased a license from a authorized store front. Can anyone of said users confirm that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force10 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 How do you think Starforce Pro-Active DRM Console determines that a key has been blacklisted by Starforce? Starforce Console Checks License Key Status, along w/ other Parameters Like Machine Code against Code stored on Server, if it's been Suspended, Expires, BlackListed, etc When You Launch DCS.exe, Every xxxxx_protect.exe for every module you have installed processes said request. And if you're offline...how does this work? How long can you be "offline" with the current Starforce DRM before it forces you to go online and verify keys? Asus Z87 Sabertooth motherboard Windows 7 64 bit Home edition Intel I5 4670K @ 4.4 ghz 16 gig 1866mhz Corsair Vengence Pro memory EVGA GTX 970 Superclocked 4gb Video Card Intel 510 series 120gb SSD (boot drive) Samsung 840 1TB SSD Onboard Realtek sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 But Startforce checks something, it's just different than the new DRM. So instead of 'no checks' you would want an option of hardware checks wouldnt you?Actually, I think this is the better option, as you always have the "hardware", while I have not much influence on the "Internet". The typical SLA for an internet based service is "best effort", unless you have a leased line / business contract, usually based on an MPLS based network. That does not take into account all the people and situations where there actually ISN'T internet access... But I cannot see anything in terms of argument/options,that wasn't brought up here, already. About the "representative poll", I think it isn't so important if X number of people voted a, b, or c. What I find especially useful is the feedback in this thread. We have heard a lot of input about what, and how will/can impact customers and what are pro and cons of the system in general, up to alternatives etc. I personally hope ED understands the impact for the customer side better from this input and can optimize their strategy. I guess it isn't so much about a 90 day or 120 day period in-between checks. The question is, how to handle people who really want to play offline or can't provide a stable internet connection every time a check is due. Guess, this is EDs job to think of a solution to handle this. May be a solution to grant an option to ask the support in advance for a long term offline "key" that has a "expiration date" and is bound to a specific CPU/Hardware ID to cover monthlong deployments or periods of offline play. Or the option to download/request a set of up to three "pregenerated activations" that can be entered offline so you can extend the check three times, without an internet connection, for a maximum period of 3*90 days = 270 days which should cover a lot of eventualities? Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_Rico Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 And if you're offline...how does this work? How long can you be "offline" with the current Starforce DRM before it forces you to go online and verify keys? I find it remarkable that several times through this thread people have asked for an offical ED staff member to confirm starforce phoning home ........ still no answer METAR weather for DCS World missions Guide to help out new DCS MOOSE Users -> HERE Havoc Company Dedicated server info Connect IP: 94.23.215.203 SRS enabled - freqs - Main = 243, A2A = 244, A2G = 245 Please contact me HERE if you have any server feedback or METAR issues/requests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckle Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Curious about this too. A few years ago I was in a house with no onnection apart from my phone and wad offline for months on end. No issues with DCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts